LONGECITY

If we found the cure to aging and created indefinite life extension even then what's the point? We will still die and everything we've experienced will cease to exist. What's the difference in not existing at all, dying in the womb, dying in childbirth, dying in childhood, dying in adolescence, dying in adulthood, dying at 80-100 years of age, or if the cure to aging comes 100000 years of age or even 10000000000000000000000 of age?

What is the point of non-existence?

If we get to live indefinitely, then it is different because we have the chance and choice to figure out if we like to keep living, or if we decide that life does get boring, or life does get too hard, or we do end up creating to much destruction in the world etc... If we decide we like it we can take measures to try to secure more of it.

There is also the difference in that you control your own destiny. Would you rather play a game that has a fixed end, or a game where you can continue advancing to new levels? You might crash into a mountain, but you might keep advancing. As long as your still alive, to you, your life is indefinite. Right now, with its finitude, it is much easier to consider throwing it away, trading it in, for example as many do for war, rebellions, the joy of smoking, the joy of living on the edge, etc...

I figure that once a person experiences everything there is to exist, that they might feel like death wouldnt matter as much any more after a while, because they had done it all. At that time though, people will probably have limitless amounts of other options, like cataloging the statistics of that life they lived, then hitting the reset button so they can live it all over again and compare the stats at the end and so on.

What is the point of non-existence?

There is none.

As long as your still alive, to you, your life is indefinite.

Please elaborate.

Right now, with its finitude, it is much easier to consider throwing it away, trading it in, for example as many do for war, rebellions, the joy of smoking, the joy of living on the edge, etc...

And your saying that if we find a way to preserve ourselves through technology that the finitude of life no longer applies? My main point I was getting at was that there will always be a finitude. Unless you would like to search for the fictional power of the gods - the real thing, True Immortality.

More beer and tities!

What is the point of non-existence?

There is none.

At least you get to do nothing and not think about it and not sense that your not thinking about it and lay prostrate for eons while wonder and awe flys by and worms crawl through your skull. They needed it more anyways right? We wouldnt want to deny worms their opportunity. (I would bet money we could find a deathist that would say that)

As long as your still alive, to you, your life is indefinite.

Please elaborate.

When your life is indefinite, it may hypothetically never end. You can never think to yourself, gees, one day this is going to end, because when it ends depends in large part on how you steer yourself through existence. If you step out of the way of the truck you live, if you help get into space to avoid destruction that may come to the earth then you get to keep living, etc...

Right now, with its finitude, it is much easier to consider throwing it away, trading it in, for example as many do for war, rebellions, the joy of smoking, the joy of living on the edge, etc...

And your saying that if we find a way to preserve ourselves through technology that the finitude of life no longer applies? My main point I was getting at was that there will always be a finitude. Unless you would like to search for the fictional power of the gods - the real thing, True Immortality.

Its always indefinite unless it becomes finite. If it hasnt become finite, then it remains indefinite. Immortality is a potential option to pursue with an indefinite life span.

As long as your still alive, to you, your life is indefinite.

Please elaborate.

When your life is indefinite, it may hypothetically never end. You can never think to yourself, gees, one day this is going to end, because when it ends depends in large part on how you steer yourself through existence. If you step out of the way of the truck you live, if you help get into space to avoid destruction that may come to the earth then you get to keep living, etc...

Right now, with its finitude, it is much easier to consider throwing it away, trading it in, for example as many do for war, rebellions, the joy of smoking, the joy of living on the edge, etc...

And your saying that if we find a way to preserve ourselves through technology that the finitude of life no longer applies? My main point I was getting at was that there will always be a finitude. Unless you would like to search for the fictional power of the gods - the real thing, True Immortality.

Its always indefinite unless it becomes finite. If it hasnt become finite, then it remains indefinite. Immortality is a potential option to pursue with an indefinite life span.

You have to admit that it it will all come to an end. Even true Immortality will come to an end by the universe exploding or something. There is no way you will be able to control everything so that you will not one day die. Sure you can lessen the chances of you dying but you cannot make any absolutes in regards to your mortality.

What is the point of non-existence?

There is none.

What's the point of existence? In my opinion, none. But we happened to be here, we are alive now, we might as well make the best of it. There is pleasure and satisfaction to be had (and to give), and the longer the better. There is really nothing else.

There is a point of just being around. My family and people I know would not be happy if I died.

The pleasures are food and sex. These pleasures are not getting better when I age more.

What is the point of non-existence?

There is none.

What's the point of existence? In my opinion, none. But we happened to be here, we are alive now, we might as well make the best of it. There is pleasure and satisfaction to be had (and to give), and the longer the better. There is really nothing else.

That's almost exactly how I think of existence as well. To add to what you said there is also many things to discover.

You have to admit that it it will all come to an end. Even true Immortality will come to an end by the universe exploding or something. There is no way you will be able to control everything so that you will not one day die. Sure you can lessen the chances of you dying but you cannot make any absolutes in regards to your mortality.

If this guy is right, we have a VERY long time yet...how does 10 to the power of 100 years sound?

http://en.wikipedia....of_the_Universe

This is a good book and worth a read.

Sure it is finite, but add to this the possibility of living in a virtual world at a greatly accelerated pace - ie we experience say 100 trillion years but the universe only moves forward 1 second and you can see that there could be a lot of time still available.

Then you have the strange nature of quantum mechanics which may allow for some way of creating a new universe or jumping into a different one.

There is plenty of time left...

but add to this the possibility of living in a virtual world at a greatly accelerated pace - ie we experience say 100 trillion years but the universe only moves forward 1 second and you can see that there could be a lot of time still available.

Then you have the strange nature of quantum mechanics which may allow for some way of creating a new universe or jumping into a different one.

Ive assembled an index that lists all of the most important things to do, some of them are categories, but it gives you an idea of all of the things to look forward to. I sometimes wonder if the list maybe isnt a little too obvious, but the reason why it was created was mainly in response to sentiments like these:

There is pleasure and satisfaction to be had (and to give), and the longer the better. There is really nothing else.

Thats right, there are so many great things, like those for example.

There is really nothing else.

If we dont think about it in depth, (and really, what reason would every single person have to think about it in depth in this traditional world?) then it can be easy to miss the reasons. It can be easy to miss the depth of profound intricate dynamics that the big picture of existing offers us. Existing isnt just about the things that are immediately available and instinctive to us as humans. Existing is about everything that we as humans are capable of knowing. Its probably not the meaning of life, its probably not something that we can say that humans "ought" to have or strive for, but it is a list of everything that we can choose to aim for, choose to have, choose to want. Its the sum total of everything that is available to us, the big picture. You can know and experience all of existence while your here.

I think we don't know what time really is. We don't really know what consciousness is.

As a subjective rationalist I suspect that the Universe we experience in space-time is not real, it is merely a shadow of reality.

I think it is not plausible that all of existence is just a bunch of equations and a limited, finite matter-energy-space-time bubble.

Empirical reality is not all of reality. For example consciousness cannot be sensed with any scientific method.

So I think the "futility of life" can be just an emotional response originating from our limited knowledge.

For example what about a trans-temporal consciousness? What if it is possible to exist backwards in time?

Indeed there isn't a point in life. But living is very interesting.

As long as your still alive, to you, your life is indefinite.

Please elaborate.

"Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. Our life has no end in the way in which our visual field has no limits."
— Wittgenstein, Tractatus, 6.431

As long as your still alive, to you, your life is indefinite.

Please elaborate.

"Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. Our life has no end in the way in which our visual field has no limits."
— Wittgenstein, Tractatus, 6.431

That quote makes no sense. True you cannot experience death because when you die you don't experience anything but how is it possible to live in the present if time keeps moving forward? The only way I could think of that someone could live in the present is that if somehow their consciousness was altered and that the concept of past, present, future, and death was erased from their mind. In that case they would be just like an animal in that they can't think but can only perceive and react to things in the immediate vicinity.
Doesn't our visual field also have limits on how far we can perceive things?

life is, for the most part, what you make of it. however, i wouldn't say it's entirely futile; remember the old saying "lest we eat from the tree of life, and become like Gods, and live forever".

Don't take this the wrong way, but is there a point to the OP questions other than philosophizing? It stands to reason that living on the order of a few hundred or thousand years puts you far enough into the future that immortality as you imagine could be chump change.
Edited by Nimbus, 12 February 2011 - 01:05 PM.

It stands to reason that living on the order of a few hundred or thousand years puts you far enough into the future that immortality as you imagine could be chump change.

You mean there could be something greater than immortality?
Edited by The Immortalist, 13 February 2011 - 11:29 PM.

Futility? I remember stagnant times in my life, where the days, weeks, months, and years passed without event. Those times certainly gave me reason to dwell on futility. When hard times came, nothing improved and I was powerless, I timidly invited an end to my life. When fascination, victory, love, and all the other things which motivate a person to act filled me, my mind was instead on continuing these emotions.

I remember love filling my life. I remember pain emptying it. I remember striving to live, growing stronger and happier. I remember fearing to live, and becoming weaker and sadder. I prefer happiness, so I live. If death, an anomaly who's effect will alter me in unpredictable ways, leads to pain, I don't want it. I choose to live simply because of the chance that death leads to pain.


Is this equation a solution to the question of life? No. It presents the question, "Why value pain and pleasure?" The solution to that will no doubt provide more questions. Luckily, I've learned to enjoy the chase.

It stands to reason that living on the order of a few hundred or thousand years puts you far enough into the future that immortality as you imagine could be chump change.

You mean there could be something greater than immortality?

Or your metric is wrong. IOW paradigm shift.

In any case, your argument doesn't have to stop at life. Everything can be considered futile relative to cosmic infinity and eternity, entropy, etc. Yes, the ultimate conclusion is to kill yourself and burn all your belongings, right now. A good sign that there's something not quite right in your premise.
Edited by Nimbus, 15 February 2011 - 12:15 AM.