Kratom & Kanna
lc11
23 Sep 2011
Wellbutrin (1 year, stopped because of dizziness and memory loss)
Piracetam (7 months, stopped because no differences noticed after the first 3 months)
St John's wart (2 months, stopped because no difference noticed)
SAMe (2 months, stopped because no difference noticed)
Rhodiola (1 month, stopped because no difference noticed except headaches)
Fish Oil (4+ years, still take it)
Magnesium (1+ year, still take it 4x a week)
I was sick over a month ago and the doctor prescribed vicodin to help with some of the pain. After I felt better, I still had a few vicodin left over and I started taking them once a day. It was unquestionably the best I've felt since my brother died. I was relaxed (obvious), happy and focused with work and completed about 3 times as much work each day as I usually would. Even my boss noticed a radical difference in my mood, behavior and work output. Then after I ran out of the prescription, things went back down (way down) to normal again.
I've been trying to find ANY supplement that will give the same results but doesn't require a prescription, is safe and legal. I saw Kratom and Kanna mentioned, and I'm leaning more towards Kratom at this point. From what I understand its preferable not to take it daily due to possible addictiveness. That is the only downside I've read about. I also read a little on Kanna and saw it can be toxic in too large of a dose but is also effective as an anti-depressant and anti-anxiety.
Does anyone have thoughts or experiences with either of these 2 supplements? Are there other supplements recommended for this that I should look into?
abelard lindsay
25 Sep 2011
As for mood stuff. You might try working on your dopamine instead of your serotonin, since St. Johns Wort and other serotonin improving herbs haven't worked for you. Have you tried supplementing with L-Phenylalanine or Tyrosine?
AbolishtheState
25 Sep 2011
http://www.sagewisdo...ratomguide.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratom
sam7777
25 Sep 2011
Truthfully, I have heard little on kanna use. I think it builds tolerance extremely fast. You could experiment for yourself.
I strongly strongly urge, if not already doing it, for you to take about 100 to 200 mg of initial release AND extended release of 5-htp at about 9 pm every night. You need to be alseep by 10 pm for sure for it to metabolize properly. Your body should use it to synthesize serotonin around 3:30 am in sleep to about 5 a.m. and you would wake up considerably energized.
I believe it has some sort of downstream effect on opioid and noradrenaline/adrenaline production. I am surprised vicoden worked so well, but then again some people have said before that it made them wired. It is pretty hardcore pharma stuff sadly.
Kratom I have heard is a SERIOUS risk for addiction, and the stories I heard were pretty scary. However, they may not be the full truth on the matter. I would urge you to be very very cautious and on the watch for signs of addiction.
I am actually looking into essential oils myself, odd as that sounds. I have heard they can work. I am hoping for some frankincense oil and gum resin to do something, but who knows.
lc11
26 Sep 2011
nito
26 Sep 2011
unregistered_user
26 Sep 2011
icecold
26 Sep 2011
Isen't Kratom used for anxiety? Anyways i have got random stomach butterflies for no reason whatsoever, it hits anytime, watching tv, eating food, playing computer games. Wonder if kratom can do anything for it.
i think you are thinking about kava. kava is used for anxiety while kratom is used for its opiate like qualities. it's not a smart long term drug to take because of the addiction. any drug that acts on the opiate receptors might kill your anxiety now but in the long term you are just gonna make it worse.
JacobHess
27 Sep 2011
I believe I read it as having a quasi legality standing...er you cannot get it on iherb/amazon etc. But that makes it no diff than provagil, depreynl, some of the other racetams etc... however you wont find it at those vendors either, it has its own vendors, which makes me even more sketchy on getting it. I think kanna is a little easier to come by, but its best to go the same route as kratom.
I get my kratom from amazon.com, (can we talk about specific vendors here? I use one consistently and could recommend) it arrives in an amazon.com package, very discrete.
I have used ground kratom leaf in the recommended 6-8g range and the effects are strong, markedly opioid. Heavy crash that, in some peolpe, will result in daily binge use until supply is gone. Use caution with this one.
I am only recently attempting to try kratom as a nootropic rather than a "get high" drug and the results are promising
The past two days I have used a one gram dose twice daily, and I feel some stimulation, a good mood, desire to do work, etc. but not the euphoric opiate high.
I don't know how long this can last! because opiates are notoriously tolerance and addiction forming.
thedevinroy
27 Sep 2011
sam7777
30 Sep 2011
Doghouse1
28 Dec 2012
eon
19 Dec 2014
Lots of old info. in here. I've just recently been looking into Kratom for pain relief. I have opioids but want to take a more natural route like Kratom. I heard it works. While it was never mentioned being a nootropic, its properties seem to act like a nootropic as much as it is a pain killer. I can't decide which strain to get though:
1 - Bali
2 - Maeng Da
3 - Red Vein Indo/Sumatra
4 - Super Green Malaysian
http://www.kratomcapsules.com/
This may be personal choice then? The cheapest is Bali. Should I try that first?
I'd prefer a capsule form because I'd know the dosage and to control how much to take. I know some people prefer the leaf or powder form. Maybe the negatives or addictive properties occur when people don't have self control or people didn't use a gram scale? I don't get it yet why Kratom is addicting, does it make you feel TOO good? Does it work on the dopamine?
I've seen Kratom soaps here:
http://www.moodandmi...=kratom&x=7&y=3
There was no reviews of it but the description stated it is an excellent expoliator. Hopefully this can remove the skin tag off my back. LOL.
Edited by eon, 19 December 2014 - 09:33 AM.
Werper
20 Dec 2014
I would recommend to order from http://www.buykratom.us/. Try the variety pack ( they give you a 1/2 ounce of each type ). I have been told to stay away from the extracts.
eon
21 Dec 2014
are the capsule form extracts? how do you prepare these in "packs" as teas? I'd prefer something I can swallow like a pill and take with me so I'm probably not looking for something to make in a tea. Do you chew these leaves in the pack or are they powdered you mix in with water?
which strain do you prefer?
I would recommend to order from http://www.buykratom.us/. Try the variety pack ( they give you a 1/2 ounce of each type ). I have been told to stay away from the extracts.
Edited by eon, 21 December 2014 - 09:26 AM.
Werper
21 Dec 2014
It comes in a fine powder. I just weigh out 3.5 grams ( to start out you might just want to try 1 gram and go from there) and wash it down with a fruit drink. It's not the most pleasant experience but I've had worst. I have heard making it in a tea is not the way to go as the heat can damage the opioids. I think white borneo might be the best bang for the buck but it depends on what you are looking to get out of it. The maeng da is the top of the line and most expensive but that doesn't necessarily mean you will enjoy it more than some of the others. That's why you just have to try each one and see what personally works for you ( and maybe none of them will) As with any opioid, tolerance is always an issue so take heed. I haven't ordered this yet but I am thinking of getting some to offset the tolerance factor -http://www.kratomdragon.com/index.html. Anyways good luck.
eon
05 Jan 2015
i'm trying to avoid amphetamines as my "dopaminergic" source (aka my motivational source). I could think of some racetams (phenotropil) working being dopaminergics. What are some other options, hopefully natural sources? Chaenomeles Speciosa (Flowering Quince) comes to mind. Could Kratom (mytragina speciosa) be dopaminergic? Let's take a look below considering it acts on the opioid receptor.
"Kratom behaves as a μ-opioid receptor agonist like morphine" - Wiki
"Any endogenous or exogenous chemical substance that acts to affect dopamine receptors or dopamine release through indirect actions (for example, on neurons that synapse onto neurons that release dopamine or express dopamine receptors) can also be said to have dopaminergic effects, two prominent examples being opioids, which enhance dopamine release indirectly in the reward pathways, and some substituted amphetamines, which enhance dopamine release directly by binding to and inhibiting VMAT2." Wiki on dopaminergic
johnjuanb1
10 Feb 2015
johnjuanb1
10 Feb 2015
The best kratom strain for pain relief is Red Thai. Go to undergroundsupps.comLots of old info. in here. I've just recently been looking into Kratom for pain relief. I have opioids but want to take a more natural route like Kratom. I heard it works. While it was never mentioned being a nootropic, its properties seem to act like a nootropic as much as it is a pain killer. I can't decide which strain to get though:
1 - Bali
2 - Maeng Da
3 - Red Vein Indo/Sumatra
4 - Super Green Malaysian
http://www.kratomcapsules.com/
This may be personal choice then? The cheapest is Bali. Should I try that first?
I'd prefer a capsule form because I'd know the dosage and to control how much to take. I know some people prefer the leaf or powder form. Maybe the negatives or addictive properties occur when people don't have self control or people didn't use a gram scale? I don't get it yet why Kratom is addicting, does it make you feel TOO good? Does it work on the dopamine?
I've seen Kratom soaps here:
http://www.moodandmi...=kratom&x=7&y=3
There was no reviews of it but the description stated it is an excellent expoliator. Hopefully this can remove the skin tag off my back. LOL.
They sell farm grade Red Thai, meaning it's right off the tree, fresh and potent. Red Thai is relaxing and somewhat euphoric, very powerful. Mix it with maeng Da for energy if you need pain relief during the day time when you have work to do. In the evening, Red Thai is perfect on it's own.
eon
11 Feb 2015
Which form do you prefer? I'd prefer the capsuled form for convenience. Curious if you take those bulk form where you have to use a gram scale, do you simply swallow the Kratom or make it into tea? I would think the hot water would destroy the alkaloids?
smccomas01
11 Feb 2015
I purchase kratom in bulk from https://shop.bikhuk.us/I then capsule it. I tried taking it straight it did not go well I almost threw up.
johnjuanb1
11 Feb 2015
I have a 2 gram scooper to measure the powder. I simply put the powder in my mouth and swig grapefruit juice to swallow it. Grapefruit juice acts as a potentiator making it more effective.Which form do you prefer? I'd prefer the capsuled form for convenience. Curious if you take those bulk form where you have to use a gram scale, do you simply swallow the Kratom or make it into tea? I would think the hot water would destroy the alkaloids?
I have heard hot water doesn't harm the kratom alkyloids. I haven't tried it personally though.
johnjuanb1
11 Feb 2015
Hahaha I have very weak taste buds so it just tastes like bitter tea leave to me.I purchase kratom in bulk from https://shop.bikhuk.us/I then capsule it. I tried taking it straight it did not go well I almost threw up.
eon
12 Feb 2015
Kratom actually comes in "powder" form? I thought it was more "herbal" form aka green leafy looking things? Is it micro ground so it looks powdered? It doesn't look like tea leaves in tea bags does it?
Lamirp
13 Feb 2015
More than 1 gram of extract 15 x Kratom Bali did not do anything to me. No effect. Why?
Flex
16 Feb 2015
Regarding Kanna, I´ve found this
Pharmacological actions of the South African medicinal and functional food plant Sceletium tortuosum and its principal alkaloids
http://www.sciencedi...378874111005113
More than 1 gram of extract 15 x Kratom Bali did not do anything to me. No effect. Why?
I guess that extracts are sometimes weaker.
At least I got that felling, because when I´ve tried Salvia divinorum and Kava Kava extracts, they were weaker then the crude herbs.
I would try a potent sort like dunno.. Bali & etc.
eon
16 Feb 2015
I think I read from someone extracts are unreliable. Not sure if the Kanna product called Zembrin is an extract. Anyone tried Zembrin?
johnjuanb1
06 Mar 2015
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