LONGECITY

genuine and believable positivity brimming from within makes us look younger
Edited by starlight_starbright, 10 December 2012 - 05:42 AM.

I think this thread has run its course. No one has actually made reference to the original post in a long time.

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Isn't there also a subtle change in facial structure as well. I am not sure if I read it or heard it from real gerontology circles/research or from anti-aging gurus, but doesn't our facial bone and muscle structure sag or slightly change due to decades of gravity working against our decaying repair mechanisms?

What if one were to sleep upside down so gravity pulls on your face the other way for 8 hours each night.

Would that help?

Isn't there also a subtle change in facial structure as well. I am not sure if I read it or heard it from real gerontology circles/research or from anti-aging gurus, but doesn't our facial bone and muscle structure sag or slightly change due to decades of gravity working against our decaying repair mechanisms?

What if one were to sleep upside down so gravity pulls on your face the other way for 8 hours each night.

Would that help?

Our facial bone structure changes, but I don't think it's due to gravity. Some parts just keep growing in ways that we'd rather they didn't. Kind of like the way old people get comically gigantic ears. Maybe some day we'll figure out a way to arrest these processes, or reverse them. At the moment, there's plastic surgery...

This makes sense to me

http://rjpembroak.blogspot.com/

That's not entirely telling the whole story.

The woman above is obviously not wearing makeup. It could also be that her genetics don't allow her to age as well which is why she got into supplements and holistic stuff. It's possible she looks better than she would otherwise.

It's kind of like comparing a naturally skinny guy who eats pizza all day and saying "this guy eats pizza all day" and then showing an overweight guy and saying "this guy runs on treadmills and tries to eat healthy." It's misleading.

Isn't there also a subtle change in facial structure as well. I am not sure if I read it or heard it from real gerontology circles/research or from anti-aging gurus, but doesn't our facial bone and muscle structure sag or slightly change due to decades of gravity working against our decaying repair mechanisms?

What if one were to sleep upside down so gravity pulls on your face the other way for 8 hours each night.

Would that help?

Our facial bone structure changes, but I don't think it's due to gravity. Some parts just keep growing in ways that we'd rather they didn't. Kind of like the way old people get comically gigantic ears. Maybe some day we'll figure out a way to arrest these processes, or reverse them. At the moment, there's plastic surgery...

It's not just the face - it's the whole skeleton, at least in males. Androgens trigger radial bone expansion; basically, osteoclasts at the outer surface of the bone are suppressed and osteoblasts stimulated, leading to net deposition of bone on the outer surface. The reverse happens on the inner surface, resulting in "hollowing out". The net effect is widening of the bones. It's not likely something that cosmetic surgery will ever be useful for, given that you can't really shrink bones surgically to the extent necessary, and whole skeleton replacement isn't likely to be all that survivable. However, it should be, at least in principle reversible by gene therapy; if you could reprogram some osteoblasts and osteoclasts to respond the opposite way to how they usually would (i.e. being activated when they would usually be deactivated, and vice-versa), then the process would run backwards - although a sixty year old might have to wait until they're 100 before they get their 20 year old body back. Also, given that females have some androgens, it might be a factor in appearance of aging for them, but obviously nowhere near as significant.
Edited by Arcanyn, 23 January 2013 - 04:55 PM.

It's not just the face - it's the whole skeleton, at least in males. Androgens trigger radial bone expansion; basically, osteoclasts at the outer surface of the bone are suppressed and osteoblasts stimulated, leading to net deposition of bone on the outer surface. The reverse happens on the inner surface, resulting in "hollowing out". The net effect is widening of the bones. It's not likely something that cosmetic surgery will ever be useful for, given that you can't really shrink bones surgically to the extent necessary, and whole skeleton replacement isn't likely to be all that survivable. However, it should be, at least in principle reversible by gene therapy; if you could reprogram some osteoblasts and osteoclasts to respond the opposite way to how they usually would (i.e. being activated when they would usually be deactivated, and vice-versa), then the process would run backwards - although a sixty year old might have to wait until they're 100 before they get their 20 year old body back. Also, given that females have some androgens, it might be a factor in appearance of aging for them, but obviously nowhere near as significant.

Interesting- I'd not heard that before. If this process is androgen-driven, does that mean that as androgen levels drop, it would happen less? It might be possible to design a pharmacological intervention that would slow or prevent it, although the odds of anyone going to the trouble are slim, given that it's not life threatening. My impression about the changes of facial bone structure with age was that it happened to both men and women, though maybe it's more of a male thing; I dunno. There are plastic surgical procedures that change facial bone structure, I guess just by some sort of cutting or shaving.

I took finastraside at five times the hair loss dose for 4 years age 20-24, to the point where I experienced gyno itchy nipples and all, then took this drug at a more regular dose for a further 8 years.
Maybe I have stopped my bones grown some in that time, good! haha
In low light or in strong light pics where you can not see my skin tone, I look very young.

I find it very telling that in 12 years none of his pics taken daily are anywhere near a gym. He looks pathetic for 31 years old really, I'd guess him to be mid 40s based on the last pic.

I find it very telling that in 12 years none of his pics taken daily are anywhere near a gym. He looks pathetic for 31 years old really, I'd guess him to be mid 40s based on the last pic.

Yes, I agree, he looks so bad for 31 that I strongly suspect there was something else going on with him. He looks like he has had difficult physical or mental health problems, or a lot of sadness in his life.

I find it very telling that in 12 years none of his pics taken daily are anywhere near a gym. He looks pathetic for 31 years old really, I'd guess him to be mid 40s based on the last pic.

Yes, I agree, he looks so bad for 31 that I strongly suspect there was something else going on with him. He looks like he has had difficult physical or mental health problems, or a lot of sadness in his life.

he already starts out with baggy dark eyes at age 19, so IMO probably not a naturally healthy guy to begin with. On top of that he seems to be seems to be overworking underexercizing and undersleeping during his 20s, he seems to really hit the wall at around 4min mark.

It's not just the face - it's the whole skeleton, at least in males. Androgens trigger radial bone expansion; basically, osteoclasts at the outer surface of the bone are suppressed and osteoblasts stimulated, leading to net deposition of bone on the outer surface. The reverse happens on the inner surface, resulting in "hollowing out". The net effect is widening of the bones. It's not likely something that cosmetic surgery will ever be useful for, given that you can't really shrink bones surgically to the extent necessary, and whole skeleton replacement isn't likely to be all that survivable. However, it should be, at least in principle reversible by gene therapy; if you could reprogram some osteoblasts and osteoclasts to respond the opposite way to how they usually would (i.e. being activated when they would usually be deactivated, and vice-versa), then the process would run backwards - although a sixty year old might have to wait until they're 100 before they get their 20 year old body back. Also, given that females have some androgens, it might be a factor in appearance of aging for them, but obviously nowhere near as significant.

Interesting- I'd not heard that before. If this process is androgen-driven, does that mean that as androgen levels drop, it would happen less? It might be possible to design a pharmacological intervention that would slow or prevent it, although the odds of anyone going to the trouble are slim, given that it's not life threatening. My impression about the changes of facial bone structure with age was that it happened to both men and women, though maybe it's more of a male thing; I dunno. There are plastic surgical procedures that change facial bone structure, I guess just by some sort of cutting or shaving.

I imagine that it would slow down as androgen levels drop, though by the time that happens the damage is already done, so to speak. I think it is quite possible to stop the process by drastically reducing androgen levels; there was a thread a while back by someone a while back (which I cannot currently find) who did just that and apparently managed to maintain a very youthful appearance into his early 40s. Personally I don't think it is likely that androgens are a significant contributor to the appearance of age in females, based on the effects seen on the rest of the skeleton. If you look at typical ~80 year old female without too much body fat, what you'll likely notice is that the overall bone structure is not all that different from someone in their twenties. In contrast, in males the bone structure changes are very striking even in someone in their 30s or 40s. So if the facial bones respond in a similar way to the other bones in the body, the effect in females would be slight, and likely drowned out by other factors.

I hope I inadvertently stunted my facial bone growth by taking mega doses of finastraside in my early 20's.
I posted in another thread here http://www.longecity...post__p__538019 this online program that is no longer around, it always guessed my age 16-24, I do know my skin, under eyes and some other features make me look 30 but maybe my bones are a different story, almost all my friends are 22-26, us humans maybe in our minds we make a decision on how old people are based on bone structure then ignore most other signs

It's not just the face - it's the whole skeleton, at least in males. Androgens trigger radial bone expansion;....

Also, given that females have some androgens, it might be a factor in appearance of aging for them, but obviously nowhere near as significant.

So true! k.d. lang is a good example of a female overrun with androgens. Born in 1961, once she hit 30 it was all downhill from there. She aged superfast. Awesome voice though.





Edited by xEva, 08 February 2013 - 04:50 PM.

I doubt that our basic facial bone structure changes much over time except for some older people with dentures that suffer jaw necrosis. Hormone loss and dieting can contribute to muscle loss and atrophy. Once the muscles begin to diminish and lose their integrity the overlaying skin begins to sag. This is coupled with the gradual thinning of skin over time causing skin crepiness and wrinkles.
Having a receding or smaller chin magnifies this aging effect.
Modern facelifts don't just pull back the skin, they reposition and support the underlying facial muscles. Chin implants can often help restore facial ntegrity.
One other contributor to facial aging is thyroid disfunction . Low thyroid can cause bags under the eyes, and skin thinning.

I think this is an interesting top and apologize for digging up an old thread, but it's something I've been thinking about recently. I think it's a combination of most things mentioned here, specifically:

Change in:

Bone Structure
Skin Texture and Appearance
Hair
Soft Tissue (Baby Fat)
Gravity
Hormones
Physical Fitness

I think those are on the top of the list in terms of what people don't have much control over. While there is always variation, and someone may look younger or older, you can usually see a difference if you see a visual history. Life has a starting and an ending point and the body changes.

About halfway down this page they have a slider where you can compare our Kevin Rudds 2010 and 2013 faces
http://www.heraldsun...8#ixzz2XT8vi9pp

hehe 3 years of war and meglomania seem to have taken a toll on him

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Reminds me of those faces of war images.

For a politician thou it must be best to look about 50 and also for many other professionals

i think mental stress is one of the very important thing that makes a healthy person looks old. this is applicable for all. thanks for shairng those links too.

I agree that the fitness fanatics look older than their age.

That's what I've noticed, too.

is Brad Pitt oficially on the botox club?

I agree that the fitness fanatics look older than their age.

That's what I've noticed, too.

do you mean people who run long distances regularly, i.e. cardio-freaks?

No I think someone in this thread said it, at some age you have to make a choice between your body or face, hehe a little bit podgy body to have a full face. I also heard the saying that plastic surgeons have "thin thighs sunken eyes"
Fat injections or fillers could help but there is still something about having your own chubby cheeks that makes faces a little younger.

Another person mentioned here about fitness people avoiding grain carbs and chocolate that have positive effects on the skin.

I agree that the fitness fanatics look older than their age.

That's what I've noticed, too.

do you mean people who run long distances regularly, i.e. cardio-freaks?

I mean people I see in the gym lifting weights that don't have a lot of wrinkles but the ones they have are very pronounced. To be fair, it could be from the tanning or the drugs. It's not necessarily that they look old, it's just that they look weathered.

I don't know many cardio freaks.

What makes people look older?



hmm, Taking a picture of yourself every day for 12.5 years?

I am convinced a portion of aging is psychological, but another portion is tangibly physical. It is a fine balance between how one thinks and what one does to offset the effects of the dragging pull of a demanding society.

This guy does not appear to be someone who takes care of himself as far as diet or exercise. He seems to have a lot of body fat. His eyes remind me of someone who smokes also, even though I do not know if he does. More info is needed.

Spectators project their own issues onto this guy's art. He doesn't change dramatically in 12-years. That is, he doesn't change more than we are changing in 12-years. Despite the hand-wringing and supplements, diets, and exercise regimens aimed to slow aging, nothing works to slow aging. Face the truth. Obviously certain well-trodden behaviors facilitate health declines, and yet we all seem to know those behaviors by rote.

Spectators project their own issues onto this guy's art. He doesn't change dramatically in 12-years. That is, he doesn't change more than we are changing in 12-years. Despite the hand-wringing and supplements, diets, and exercise regimens aimed to slow aging, nothing works to slow aging. Face the truth. Obviously certain well-trodden behaviors facilitate health declines, and yet we all seem to know those behaviors by rote.

So, we all age at the same rapid, inexorable pace? I think you already know this to be false. For the sake of argument, let's say that you're (at least approximately) correct. Do you also maintain that it will always (for the forseeable future) be this way?

So, we all age at the same rapid, inexorable pace? I think you already know this to be false. For the sake of argument, let's say that you're (at least approximately) correct. Do you also maintain that it will always (for the forseeable future) be this way?

You're right: I don't think everyone ages at the same rate. And speculating into the future, I don't know. But for now, nothing beyond human CR seems to "slow" aging (but the words "slow aging" aren't really the best words; more like CR may in some cases delay early onset of some diseases and aging conditions). Yet CR evidence is nowhere near conclusive.

Have you found anything in your own behavior to slow your own rate of aging?

That's really difficult to say, as aging happens so slowly, and biomarkers of aging aren't universally agreed upon. The current interventions that offer the most promise are probably C60OO, TA-65, Epithalon and other peptide bioregulators and stem cell therapy. We have no proof as of yet that any of these extend human lifespan. If you wait for proof (or disproof), you may be waiting for quite an extended period. I hope and even expect that more powerful interventions will be available within my lifetime. Staying away from George Zimmerman's neighborhood seems to also be advised, if you want any chance of living to 150.

I was looking at the pictures of Ava Gardener thinking that she had pretty good skin for old age... boy was I wrong,

 

Five years after being this in the Killers,

 

http://www.moviepost...ner-1946-2.html

 

 

She became this in Mogambo. I would say she's a 40 or well maintained 50 something at the age of 30.

 

http://classiq.me/cinema-style-mogambo

 

 

 

Her face has more volume than it did before as it is normal for middle aged western women. No visible wrinkles, slightly hollow eye circles and beginning of a nasolabial folds all of which are not uncommon even for early 20 somethings. What make her look 50? I think it's something about her muscles and the way her skin pulls when she makes expressions.

Edited by Audioque, 31 August 2014 - 09:37 PM.

The 11's stick out at me, it also could be the hairstyle that we associate with elderly ladies, all those 80's photos with frizzy hair make people seem old.

 

Here I completely removed her folds and smoothed the skin she also has hooding of her upper eyelids, she even has a neck wrinkles, maybe she was an alco and heavy smoker? A big thing I have noticed in aging that gets overlooked is volume at the temples.