71 replies to this topic

[bernard]

People have been going over hair rejuvenation for decades. Over and over again. First herbs were the remedy of choice - stinging nettle and horsetail and whatnot. Later on someone decided that insufficient bloodflow was the cause of hair loss. We've seen all kinds of shampoos with arginine and drugs with minoxidil that have mild to no effect. Then again scientists assume there are different reasons for hair loss - blood flow, stress, androgenic alopecia and what not.
Currently there are drugs that make much more sense to fixing hair loss - Thymosin Beta 4, GHK-Cu, PGD2 Inhibitors etc.

And yet I've never heard of people who actually fully heal their scalps. Most of the true objective testimonials are somewhat like "Well, I think there's some improvement."
I mean give me a break right ? After all these years we are able to create vaccines, extremely complex drugs, nootropics but we can't fix something as simple as hair loss ? I don't get it.

For example I have this great hair inherited by my grandmother. I mean it's HUGE. And so thick. However I have this one spot on the front that's beginning to get thinner.
I'm looking for something that trully works. What would you suggest ?

[JohnD60]

Folicular unit hair transplants. That patch you refer to is probably (could be something else like blood flow, but unlikely) just very DHT sensitive. Doc takes hair from a part of the head that is not DHT sensitive (usually the back of the head) transplants them to thin/bald patch. What you describe sounds like about $4,000 worth of work. I am sure there are plenty of cheap suggestions that do not work

Edited by JohnD60, 11 October 2012 - 11:35 PM.

[niner]

Where do you guys get the idea that we don't have any drugs that work? Finasteride, Minoxidil, and Ketoconazole work, among others. There are lots of satisfied customers out there. I wouldn't do conventional transplants at this point in time; I would tide myself over with chemicals while waiting for stem cell therapies to mature. There's a lot of promising stuff on the horizon.

[bernard]

Minoxidil is crap in my opinion. All major studies show mild to no effect. About 7% ot Minoxidil users are satisfied with their results. Plus most of the hairs grown on minoxidil are lost once it's usage has been discontinued.

Finasteride is really not something I would use at all for any reason. First of all not all hair loss is androgenic. And even if it was, finasteride use is linked to dramatic systemic decrease of dihydrotestosterone which in turn leads to increased risk of diabetese, gynecomastia and so on. It's really silly to target or want to inhibit a major hormone in order to promote hair growth. Plus one could always use a caffeine shampoo to inhibit only the DHT that accumulates in the scalp.

I've uploaded an extremely interesting study here, for all the people interested in hair loss. In fact it's as revolutionary as to suggest that androgenic alopecia has very little to do with DHT.
http://ge.tt/5Cn4iMP/v/0

At this point I'll probably try a vitamin stack and a caffeine shampoo and a Thymosin Beta 4 skin patch.

However if you guys have any better suggestions I'd be pleased to hear them out. I forgot to mention that my hair is long.

[Logic]

Asperin. Both topically (in shampoo) and orally (81mg enteric)

http://www.longecity...post__p__531644

I also have some instant coffee in my shampoo:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17214716

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17396054

Its too early to tell if this is working, but it does seem to have stopped my receding hairline, and its cheap and easy to scource.


Also C60oo looks worth a try:

http://www.longecity...r-tonic-thread/

[bernard]

Any idea how to dose C60oo for hair growth. I see that people are taking it both orally and applying it topically.

Edited by Tatsumaru, 12 October 2012 - 11:21 AM.

[nowayout]

Where do you guys get the idea that we don't have any drugs that work? Finasteride, Minoxidil, and Ketoconazole work, among others.

Unfortunately, none of these work at all well. I think you will find very few people who get satisfactory results with any of them, apart from a few lucky freaks who probably wouldn't have had much balding without them in the first place. Despite using Minoxidi and Finasteride (plus Dutasteride for a while) for many years, after some very modest temporary success in the first year I still have experienced a lot of balding on them, in fact more than my (also balding) brother who has used nothing.

Edited by viveutvivas, 12 October 2012 - 09:45 PM.

[zorba990]

The only dramatic pictures before and after I have seen involved using all the drugs and Prevention seemsupplements combined with a transplant
http://www.hairlossfromsteroids.com
Prevention seems to work well for many people, but I've seen nothing dramatic as in back to 18 year old hairline (which many old ladies will still have).
And the complaints about the drugs are numerous as to sexual side effects.

[niner]

Where do you guys get the idea that we don't have any drugs that work? Finasteride, Minoxidil, and Ketoconazole work, among others.

Unfortunately, none of these work at all well. I think you will find very few people who get satisfactory results with any of them, apart from a few lucky freaks who probably wouldn't have had much balding without them in the first place. Despite using Minoxidi and Finasteride (plus Dutasteride for a while) for many years, after some very modest temporary success in the first year I still have experienced a lot of balding on them, in fact more than my (also balding) brother who has used nothing.

I guess it depends what you mean by "work". There's nothing at the moment that's going to make a bald guy look like he's 17 again. Seems like there's a lot of people in the hair loss forums that use various chemicals. And, yeah, there are lots of people who don't respond, like a lot of drugs. Finasteride worked pretty well for me. Certainly not perfect- I don't have the same hair I had at 17... Still, it's better than it was. I should note that I didn't take it for hair loss alone; I took it for prostate cancer prophylaxis and mild bph. I wouldn't have taken it for hair alone, but that was an added bonus.

So, yeah, if you really want something that will make you look like a kid again, nothing works. Maybe a good toupee.

BTW, if you want to try a caffeine shampoo, don't use instant coffee; either buy some pure caffeine, or maybe grind up some NoDoz, dissolve in water, and filter to remove insoluble binders.

[Logic]

BTW, if you want to try a caffeine shampoo, don't use instant coffee; either buy some pure caffeine, or maybe grind up some NoDoz, dissolve in water, and filter to remove insoluble binders.

So what do the insoluble binders do Niner?

[niner]

BTW, if you want to try a caffeine shampoo, don't use instant coffee; either buy some pure caffeine, or maybe grind up some NoDoz, dissolve in water, and filter to remove insoluble binders.

So what do the insoluble binders do Niner?

They bind the tablet together. There's also likely to be insoluble pigments, possibly fillers (if the dose is low, like less than 50mg, you'll need to add something to take up space so the pill isn't too small.

[Mind]

At the root of the problem is aging. If you don't cure the root problem, really all you are doing is putting a band-aid over the problem (hair-loss).

I have a friend who uses propecia to stop hair loss. It worked for a few years it seems. He was happy with it. It didn't completely stop hair loss but it slowed it down.

[bernard]

I'm 22 years old though.

[Mind]

I'm 22 years old though.

And aging since the day you were born.

I am 41. I just shave my head and save my money to support longevity and rejuvenation research. It will pay off a lot better in the long run, and I will get all my hair back, if I want it.

[Logic]

BTW, if you want to try a caffeine shampoo, don't use instant coffee; either buy some pure caffeine, or maybe grind up some NoDoz, dissolve in water, and filter to remove insoluble binders.

So what do the insoluble binders do Niner?

They bind the tablet together. There's also likely to be insoluble pigments, possibly fillers (if the dose is low, like less than 50mg, you'll need to add something to take up space so the pill isn't too small.

Ah... I asked the wrong question: Whats wrong with instant coffee? I used it as I figured it would be more soluble in shampoo and water.

Edited by Logic, 13 October 2012 - 02:09 PM.

[nowayout]

So, yeah, if you really want something that will make you look like a kid again, nothing works.

Well, no, that was never my hope. I would have settled for keeping the hair I had at 30, which was when I started Finasteride (after already using minoxidil for 10 years with little if any success). Despite the Finasteride, my hair loss proceeded at least as fast as, if not faster than, my also-balding brother's, and he didn't use anything.

[nowayout]

I should note that I didn't take it for hair loss alone; I took it for prostate cancer prophylaxis and mild bph.

It is notable that the FDA denied approval of finasteride for prostate cancer prophylaxis on the basis that the side effects outweighed the possible benefit to the target population. There is even some research indicating that finasteride use may result in more aggressive prostate cancer in some patients. Something to be aware of.

Perhaps a safer alternative for BPH symptoms that was recently approved is Tadalafil (Cialis).

[nowayout]

I should disclose that I still use a small dose of finasteride topically (3 or 4 pills dissolved in a month's supply of minoxidil, so maybe 0.1 mg per day, a topical dose that should not have systemic effects). I doubt it does anything for my hair, but it does improve the condition of my scalp. When I don't add the finasteride, my scalp quickly starts itching chronically, and reintroducing it resolves the itching pretty quickly.

[nowayout]

At the root of the problem is aging. If you don't cure the root problem, really all you are doing is putting a band-aid over the problem (hair-loss).

Male pattern baldness may worsen over time but I doubt that means it has anything to do with aging - it seems more comparable to autoimmune conditions. Even if you could cure aging, you would still need to cure MPB separately.

[bernard]

I'm 22 years old though.

And aging since the day you were born.

I am 41. I just shave my head and save my money to support longevity and rejuvenation research. It will pay off a lot better in the long run, and I will get all my hair back, if I want it.

You are absolutely right. In fact supporting Longecity is one of my primary goals in the very near future. Call me a dreamer but I have a feeling that TA-65 is the first viable attempt at quasi immortality. Most probably we'll find the secret to stopping aging in the next decade and Longecity plays a key role in this process.

[niner]

I should note that I didn't take it for hair loss alone; I took it for prostate cancer prophylaxis and mild bph.

It is notable that the FDA denied approval of finasteride for prostate cancer prophylaxis on the basis that the side effects outweighed the possible benefit to the target population. There is even some research indicating that finasteride use may result in more aggressive prostate cancer in some patients. Something to be aware of.

Perhaps a safer alternative for BPH symptoms that was recently approved is Tadalafil (Cialis).

Yeah, there was a little dust-up in the literature regarding the more aggressive pCa, but I think that was later discounted. My urologist isn't particularly worried about it. I'm a somewhat unusual case, in that my family history is really bad- father, uncle, and brother. The brother particularly concerns me, since he was younger than me when he was diagnosed. Even considering the history, the improvement in bph symptoms and hair growth were also factors in my decision, which I didn't take lightly. Cialis is interesting. I don't have any problem with ED though, and I'd lose two of the effects that I want. It's still on patent, so it would be pretty expensive as a chronic drug, since it's probably priced for "occasional use"...

[1kgcoffee]

The problem for me is not so much MPB, which is almost non-existant, but fewer hair follicles all over the head compared to ten years ago.

Edited by 1kgcoffee, 13 October 2012 - 03:53 PM.

[nowayout]

Cialis is interesting. I don't have any problem with ED though, and I'd lose two of the effects that I want.

No, that's just the thing. Cialis has been found to help with the classical urinary symptoms of BPH, such as urinary latency, incomplete voiding, weak stream, etc. (By the way, ED is not a symptom of BPH.) The mechanism of action of Cialis in this condition is not well understood, but it stands to reason that it may have something to do with PDE-related effects on smooth muscle relaxation.

The Cipla generic is quite cheap, by the way. Probably a twentieth of the brand name price.

Edited by viveutvivas, 13 October 2012 - 05:16 PM.

[Logic]

Any idea how to dose C60oo for hair growth. I see that people are taking it both orally and applying it topically.

Turnbuckle was taking between 3 and 7.5 mg when he noticed hair regrowth if I remember correctly?
He took an attack dose and then slowed down to once a week for reasons best explained by him. Its a mitochondria natural selection theory that makes a lot of sense?

Applying it topically is self ... adjusting? Setting?

Id like to add this to the list:

http://appliedyouth....ed94e97c16#p701

Just to stir things up a little!

[nowayout]

Any idea how to dose C60oo for hair growth. I see that people are taking it both orally and applying it topically.

Turnbuckle was taking between 3 and 7.5 mg when he noticed hair regrowth if I remember correctly?
He took an attack dose and then slowed down to once a week for reasons best explained by him. Its a mitochondria natural selection theory that makes a lot of sense?

If it had to do with mitochondrial rejuvenation, then one would expect significant hair regrowth from ALCAR, for example (see Ames studies on its dramatic effect on mitochondria). Since ALCAR does not regrow hair, I doubt MPB has anything to do with mitochondria.

[bernard]

Check the study that I posted. Apparently MPB has a lot more to do with Prostaglandin D2 than with DHT.

Drugs known as Mast Cell Stabilizers used for certain allergies do inhibit PGD2 and might result in dramatic hair growth.

Ketotifen is one such Mast Cell Stabilizer. Anyone know if it's safe for longer term use ?

[niner]

Check the study that I posted. Apparently MPB has a lot more to do with Prostaglandin D2 than with DHT.

Drugs known as Mast Cell Stabilizers used for certain allergies do inhibit PGD2 and might result in dramatic hair growth.

Ketotifen is one such Mast Cell Stabilizer. Anyone know if it's safe for longer term use ?

I wonder if PGD2 might have more of a role in later life balding? The balding that happens in young men is, I suspect, largely DHT driven. Then again, although I started losing my hair at 18, that was a long time ago, and finasteride still provided me with a noticeable improvement, so at least in some people, DHT continues to be a problem.

I don't know about the long term safety of Ketotifen, but you should look at the side effects that were recorded in the trials, and see if hirsutism is one of the observed effects. That would be a good sign.

[zorba990]

Check the study that I posted. Apparently MPB has a lot more to do with Prostaglandin D2 than with DHT.

Drugs known as Mast Cell Stabilizers used for certain allergies do inhibit PGD2 and might result in dramatic hair growth.

Ketotifen is one such Mast Cell Stabilizer. Anyone know if it's safe for longer term use ?

How about Quercetin? http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0033805

[bernard]

Prior to 2012 PGD2 inhibitors were formulated for use in treatment of allergic rhinitis, asthma, and other inflammatory disorders. The discovery of the prostaglandin D2 pathway opens the door to a new area of research into androgenetic alopecia. Prior to the 2012 research by Cotsarelis et al, scientists believed that dihydrotestosterone (DHT) was the most important pathway to baldness. However, DHT inhibition is not successful in reversal (hair regrowth) of male baldness, and often does not significantly slow progression of baldness. Females without significant levels of DHT can have symptoms similar to male pattern baldness with undetectable DHT levels as well.

DHT has been shown to regulate PGD2 in some tissues, although other factors regulating PGD2 particularly in androgenetic alopecia are not fully understood (Sorrentino et al, 1998.)

It's quite possible that what we thought was DHT-induced hair loss was actually PGD2-induced hair loss. And that PGD2 was upregulated by DHT - hence the visible effect of DHT blockers.

Didn't find any link between ketotifen and hirsutism.

Ok Get Ready for this...

The “original” prostaglandin D2 receptor, DP1, is not relevant to male pattern baldness. DP2, also known as GPR44, CD294, or CRTH2, is. (Garza & Cotsarelis, 2012) Of the PGD2 receptor inhibitors, only drugs or compounds that target the CRTH2 receptor are potential candidates for a male pattern baldness treatment. Many drugs exhibit a general affinity for prostaglandin receptors but a weak specific affinity for CRTH2.

Well apparently some very serious guys were able to get ahold of that new misterious drug called OC000459 which is a specific CRTH2 antagonist. Most probably is the same drug that Costarelis has used for their huge discovery.

According to this post OC000459 + Valproic Acid and Ciclopirox will:
Correct scalp anti-angiogensis prostaglandin issues
Progenitor cell count
WNT singaling problem

... which are all symptoms in balding people.
More reading here:
http://www.hairlossh...7&enterthread=y
http://www.hairlossh...2&enterthread=y

NOTE: The actual drug OC000459 is available for purchase from this store:
http://www.thekanesh...ntagonists.html

All the rest of the forementioned stuff is also available at that same shop:
http://www.thekanesh...timulators.html

The drug OC000459 was originally produced by the company Oxagen as a CRTH-2 agonist as a remedy for asthma and allergies (similar to Ketotifen as you might recall). They claim the drug has an excellent safety profile.
More info here:
http://www.oxagen.co.uk/index.htm

Other articles claim that a mild anti-inflammatory will further help by decreasing PGD2 levels. Examples: Resveratrol, Fish Oil, Omega 3, Bromelain

@Zorba:
Quercetin is definitely interesting. I am about to check that out in the following days.

Edited by Tatsumaru, 15 October 2012 - 12:25 AM.

[nowayout]

Check the study that I posted. Apparently MPB has a lot more to do with Prostaglandin D2 than with DHT.

Drugs known as Mast Cell Stabilizers used for certain allergies do inhibit PGD2 and might result in dramatic hair growth.

While it would be nice to have additional hair loss drugs that do not mess up sex hormones, it is still possible that drugs that interfere with things happening downstream from DHT may mess up sex. For example, there is evidence that certain prostaglandins play a role in penile erection. It would be ironic if a PGD2 inhibitor preserved DHT levels but still caused erectile problems.