LONGECITY

Hi Everyone,

Long story short, I have some unspecified autoimmune issues that cause relapsing and remmitting PNS tingling and fasiculations along with little spots of blood under my skin. It is also affecting my CNS and making me dumber.

I have not been able to get a good diagnosis. The only other lab of not is a positive ANA speckled 1/160. Also have family history of behchets and sjugrens.

The problem is all the classic immune supps like fish oil and even any supplement that is supposed to module the immune system in any way touches of an episode of demyleination.

I have heard of this phenomenon in some patients, where a Dr. recommends just selectivity inhibiting TH17 and or iNOS because any TH1 OR TH2 modulations makes things worse.

Anyone know of any selective TH17 or iNOS inhibitors?

There is a list here but they also have other immune effects:

http://blog.healclic...immune-illness/

Everything on this list for iNOS modulations has some other issue that prevents me from taking it : http://thyroidbook.com/blog/page/3/

- NAC : possible mercury
- ALpha GPC - Don't want ot further kill of my dopaminergic neurons from DOPAC (I already have increased parkinsons risk according to 23 and me)
- ALCAR : oxidative stress and possible thyroid issues
- Huperzine A : Scared of messing around with a AchEs inhibitor. Already have dopaminergic dysfunction.
- Vinpocetine: was warned off by a thread on here
- Adenosine : where do I even get this?
- Xanthinol niacinate Ditto


I'm also looking for an antioxidant that has not immune modulating properties... (even vit e does).

Also if anyone has any other suggestions I would be greatly obliged.

Thank you.

- NAC : possible mercury
- ALCAR : oxidative stress and possible thyroid issues
- Adenosine : where do I even get this?
- Xanthinol niacinate Ditto

NAC and ALCAR are widely used. These fears are overblown.

There's some adenosine in this product. It would probably be harder to find by itself, but you could search on supplement sites and with google.
xanthinol niacinate is more commonly called xanthinol nicotinate. You'll get more hits searching on that, but niacinate gets a lot of hits as well.

Even though the Th1/Th2 model of autoimmunity/allergy is probably oversimplistic, Th1 seems to be associated with Th17 more often than Th2. Have you tried some supplements that effect the Th1/Th2 balance? I would probably start with NAG. Also, check out Lion's Mane mushroom for remyelination. Inosine is also interesting against peroxynitrite and nitric oxide activity as higher uric acid levels are known to shield against MS.


NAG:

N-Acetylglucosamine Inhibits T-helper 1 (Th1)/T-helper 17 (Th17) Cell Responses and Treats Experimental Autoimmune Encephalomyelitis

http://www.jbc.org/c.../46/40133.short


Control of T Cell-mediated Autoimmunity by Metabolite Flux to N-Glycan Biosynthesis
http://www.jbc.org/c...nt/282/27/20027

Genetics and the environment converge to dysregulate N-glycosylation in multiple sclerosis
http://www.nature.co...ncomms1333.html ***

N-Glycan Processing Deficiency Promotes Spontaneous Inflammatory Demyelination and Neurodegeneration
http://www.jbc.org/c.../33725.full.pdf

Anti-allergic activity of crystallinity controlled N-acetyl glucosamine
http://informahealth...973.2012.684800

Suppressive Effects of N-Acetyl-d-Glucosamine on Rheumatoid Arthritis Mouse Models
http://www.springerl...60226792448834/


Ursolic acid:


Ursolic Acid Suppresses Interleukin-17 (IL-17) Production by Selectively Antagonizing the Function of ROR?t Protein
http://www.jbc.org/c.../26/22707.short


Apigenin:


Apigenin, a non-mutagenic dietary flavonoid, suppresses lupus by inhibiting autoantigen presentation for expansion of autoreactive Th1 and Th17 cells.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19405952


Resveratrol:


Regulatory role of resveratrol on Th17 in autoimmune disease
http://www.sciencedi...567576910002389


Periplocoside A:


Periplocoside A prevents experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis by suppressing IL-17 production and inhibits differentiation of Th17 cells
http://www.nature.co...ps2009101a.html


Berberine:


Regulation of Th1 and Th17 Cell Differentiation and Amelioration of Experimental Autoimmune Encephalomyelitis by Natural Product Compound Berberine
http://www.jimmunol....85/3/1855.short


Lion's Mane mushroom:


The influence of Hericium erinaceus extract on myelination process in vitro
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12675022

Nerve growth factor-inducing activity of Hericium erinaceus in 1321N1 human astrocytoma cell
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18758067

Improving effects of the mushroom Yamabushitake (Hericium erinaceus) on mild cognitive impairment: a double-blind placebo-controlled clinical trial
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18844328

Peripheral Nerve Regeneration Following Crush Injury to Rat Peroneal Nerve by Aqueous Extract of Medicinal Mushroom Hericium erinaceus (Bull.: Fr) Pers. (Aphyllophoromycetideae)
http://www.hindawi.c...011/580752/abs/

Amycenone, a nootropic found in Hericium erinaceum
http://www.sciencedi...186495012000089

Nerve Growth Factor-Inducing Activity of Hericium erinaceus in 1321N1 Human Astrocytoma Cells
https://www.jstage.j...9_1727/_article


Inosine:



Inactivation of peroxynitrite in multiple sclerosis patients after oral administration of inosine may suggest possible approaches to therapy of the disease.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/11724447/

Uric acid, a natural scavenger of peroxynitrite, in experimental allergic encephalomyelitis and multiple?sclerosis
http://www.pnas.org/.../95/2/675.short

The treatment of multiple sclerosis with inosine.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3189001/

http://www.direct-ms...eUricAcidMS.pdf

Nitric Oxide and Peroxynitrite in Health and Disease
http://physrev.physi...t/87/1/315.full

Anti-inflammatory effects of inosine in human monocytes, neutrophils and epithelial cells in vitro
http://inotekcorp.co...f/ipcpub203.pdf

Multiple sclerosis: levels of interleukin-10-secreting blood mononuclear cells are low in untreated patients but augmented during interferon-beta-1b treatment.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10320650

Wow thanks so much guys that is a treasure trove!

Niner- I started with 500 mg alcar along with source today, no perceptible changes except for some anxiety.

Trying NAG in the past did not yield much results. I think I Was doing about 1.5 grams a day? Do I need to dose it away from meals or increase the dose?

I will add in Inosine.

The only thing that scares me is that anti inflammatory such as bosweilia (a TH1 inhibitor/modulator) made things worse. Perhaps by lowering TNF-a?: http://multiple-scle...ves-you-ms.html Anyone know why lowering TNF-a would cause auto immunity?

I did have a cytokine panel done (away from one of my relapses) and TNF gamma and TNF alpha were both low. The only elevated cytokine was TGF Beta which is supposedly associated with peripheral neuropathy even though it also has a regulatory function.

Berberine is a nogo. Felt the norepi promotion and I think it made my auto immunity worse. Inosine should be coming tomorrow.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10759776 "MS is associated with elevated levels of TNF-alpha-secreting blood MNC when compared with levels in groups of control patients with myasthenia gravis (MG) and other neurological diseases (OND) or healthy subjects."

How does his square with the study showing that TNF a suppression can trigger MS onset?


Dietary fish oil increases tumor necrosis factor secretion but decreases interleukin-10 secretion by murine peritoneal macrophages.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12468616

Maybe that is why fish oil was a problem? Perhaps i have to target Il-10. Looking forward to trying inosine tomorrow.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19838941

"IL-10 and IFN-gamma plasma levels was also decreased in supplemented animals."
Edited by tiadan, 21 March 2013 - 06:30 PM.

My partner uses NAG for MS related symptoms. 3*1500Mg per day with meals. Here's a paper that has some discussion of NAG dosage in inflammatory bowel disease:

http://onlinelibrary...00.00883.x/full


Interleukin-10 is an interesting lead. Garlic, which upregulates IL-10 works wonders for my allergies but unfortunately the picture with garlic and autoimmune diseases is unclear. Additionally garlic might upregulate NO production also. I would probably look for something else to upregulate IL-10 in autoimmunity.


Interleukin-10, garlic and autoimmunity


IL-10 suppressor activity and ex vivo Tr1 cell function are impaired in multiple sclerosis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16865709


Specific Inhibition of Cyclooxygenase 2 Restores Antitumor Reactivity by Altering the Balance of IL-10 and IL-12 Synthesis1
http://www.jimmunol....164/1/361.short


Multiple sclerosis: levels of interleukin-10-secreting blood mononuclear cells are low in untreated patients but augmented during interferon-beta-1b treatment.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10320650


Allium sativum (garlic) suppresses leukocyte inflammatory cytokine production in vitro: Potential therapeutic use in the treatment of inflammatory bowel disease
http://onlinelibrary...cyto.10133/full


Interferon beta induces interleukin-10 expression: Relevance to multiple sclerosis
http://onlinelibrary...400412/abstract


The effect of garlic consumption on Th1/Th2 cytokines in phytohemagglutinin (PHA) activated rat spleen lymphocytes
http://onlinelibrary...r.2700/abstract


Effect of Supplementation with Garlic Oil on Activity of Th1 and Th2 Lymphocytes from Rats
https://www.thieme-c.../s-0028-1088396


Systemic Production of IFN-a by Garlic (Allium Sativum) in Humans
http://www.lieberton...9/jir.2006.0124

Interferon alpha treatment of relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis: long-term study of the correlations between clinical and magnetic resonance imaging results and effects on the immune function.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9345396

Allium sativum (garlic) suppresses leukocyte inflammatory cytokine production in vitro: Potential therapeutic use in the treatment of inflammatory bowel disease
http://onlinelibrary...cyto.10133/full


Effect of Supplementation with Garlic Oil on Activity of Th1 and Th2 Lymphocytes from Rats
https://www.thieme-c.../s-0028-1088396


In vivo and In vitro Control of Leishmania mexicana due to Garlic-induced NO Production
http://onlinelibrary...07.02000.x/full


TNF-alpha:

It seems to me that the TNF-alpha suppression triggering MS was a single person case study.

Onset of multiple sclerosis associated with anti-TNF therapy
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11723281

I believe I saw somewhere that Inosine upregulates il-10?

WRT to TNFa and MS, there is a actually a larger study: http://multiple-scle...ves-you-ms.html

I believe I saw somewhere that Inosine upregulates il-10?

WRT to TNFa and MS, there is a actually a larger study: http://multiple-scle...ves-you-ms.html

Good find, I stand corrected. It seems like it's not a good idea to eliminate TNF-alpha altogether in MS. Somewhat gentler downregulation instead of elimination might be the way to go. For example, curcumin inhibits TNF-alpha and is helpful against EAE. On the other hand curcumin has numerous other effects also, so the effects might be hidden. Anyways, in general TNF-alpha is regarded as proinflammatory.

Also if anyone has any other suggestions I would be greatly obliged.

My knowledge in this medical issue is limited, but I would like to help so I've made some searches.
Possibly you should check up an approach through the endocannabionoid system. Since it seems it may have some relevancy here. But I don't know exactly, so further checking is needed and possibly also a consultation with a medical person who has more expertise on the subject.

Some info I found on the Wikipedia:
"Evidence suggests that endocannabinoids may function as both neuromodulators and immunomodulators in the immune system. Here, they seem to serve an autoprotective role to ameliorate muscle spasms, inflammation, and other symptoms of multiple sclerosis and skeletal muscle spasms.
...
In mouse models of multiple sclerosis, there is a profound reduction and reorganization of CB1 receptors in the cerebellum.
...
Other studies suggest that CB1 agonists promote the survival of oligodendrocytes in vitro in the absence of growth and trophic factors; in addition, these agonist have been shown to promote mRNA expression of myelin lipid protein. (Kittler et al., 2000; Mollna-Holgado et al., 2002). Taken together, these studies point to the exciting possibility that cannabinoid treatment may not only be able to attenuate the symptoms of multiple sclerosis but also improve oligodendrocyte function (reviewed in Pertwee, 2001; Mollna-Holgado et al., 2002).
"
also:
"endocannabinoids are antioxidants and neuroprotectants"


I don't know much about the endocannabionoids, but the easiest way may be the pain reliever paracetamol. It may be useful for a check. It has some analgesic and anti-inflammatory activity, partially by modulating the endogenous cannabinoid system. It is metabolized to AM404, a compound with several actions, like: it is a weak agonist of the CB1 and CB2 receptors, but what is more important it inhibits the reuptake of the endogenous cannabinoid anandamide by neurons, which is a stronger CBs agonist and anti-inflammatory molecule.

But attention is needed because in high doses paracetamol is toxic to the liver, doses above 4000 mg/day, so only a half of a regular 500 mg pill is suggested at a time, 250 mg, like in 1 hour, then another after, for the proof of concept, if it helps then you can search for another endocannabionoid upregulator. Or start with another one entirely.
As I said I don't know much about the whole disease and your condition, so I would like to stress again that you should consult with your doctors or some experts about the usefulness of these above, before you go forward.
Edited by Avatar of Horus, 31 March 2013 - 01:19 AM.

I can also endorse n-acetyl glucosamine:


Quote

UCI’s Dr. Michael Demetriou, Ani Grigorian and others found that oral N-acetylglucosamine (GlcNAc), which is similar to but more effective than the widely available glucosamine, inhibited the growth and function of abnormal T-cells that in MS incorrectly direct the immune system to attack and break down central nervous system tissue that insulates nerves.

http://today.uci.edu...r_ms_110930.php

I had the symptoms you have, only worse, and they went away after I took about 6g of NAG, twice a day (12g a day total) for about 6 months. I am now on a maintenance dose of 2.25g twice a day and my symptoms remain almost completely gone. If I reduce it much below that level, they start coming back.

Avatar of Horus-

Thanks so much for the info and suggestion, I will run it past my doc!

Smithx-

Your n=1 gives me some hope!

I am however afraid of exacerbated the situation if my immune pathoology is different than yours.

How long did it take for your to start seeing any kind of improvement?

Do you find many immune altering suppleents trigger your symptoms? What are your triggers?

What brand of NAG do you take? with or without food?

any other advice or info? Did a lower dose of NAG not do anything or make it worse?

Thanks!!
Edited by tiadan, 03 April 2013 - 05:28 PM.

The only good NAG I know of on the market is Jarrow. It did no harm to me that I noticed at any dosage. It took a few weeks before I noticed an improvement, and things actually seemed to be getting worse for the first couple of weeks. It was not a continuous improvement: there were some times that it got worse again.

I always take supplements with food because otherwise I get an upset stomach.

Read the research on NAG. It seems to work for a fairly broad range of autoimmune conditions and I have not seen anyone report that it causes problems for any autoimmune condition.

Just some words of encouragement for tiadan. I know very little about the biochemistry you and others have discussed here, but I think you have seen that there are many kind folks on this forum who will try to help.

Thirty three years ago this month, I had a sudden onset of peripheral neuropathy. My whole left side, head to toe just about, was as numb as my cheek gets after a few injections of novacaine at the dentist. Tingling was actually a big improvement. Fasiculations were intense. Many tests, no diagnosis, positive ANA but lots of normal findings. One lesson I learned was never to be disappointed at a normal finding. I'm not saying that bad things won't happen, but I'd like to encourage you to think that maybe some good things will happen. The good news, for me, is that 33 years later, all these symptoms are pretty much completely gone, and they gradually went away without any specific treatment.

I'd like to ask a couple of questions, but I understand if it's too personal. I've been a little uncomfortable talking about my own situation, just hiding behind a screen name.

Have you ever had something you would describe as an allergy? Seasonal allergy like hay fever, or allergies to food and medicine? I had very severe seasonal allergy. My first allergist, a board-certified immunologist, said "you are the most allergic person I have ever seen." She did not prescribe immunotherapy, probably because she thought I would die. (There have been fatalities from allergy shots.)

Recently, oral immunotherapy has become more popular, and it seems to be safer. The skin is there for a reason. Not long ago, I began sub-lingual immunotherapy. (SLIT). After a few months I was symptom free, I couldn't believe it, after 50 years of suffering.

I mention this because immune reponses can be a bit non-specific. Once the fire starts and everything lights up, there can be autoimmune issues.

I urge you to find doctors that you trust, and to work with them, armed with as much knowledge as you can find. Best wishes to you for a successful outcome.

cudBwrong- I have had allergies in the past, but my recent skin prick test was negative. Interesting experience though, glad everything worked out!

I'm trying to find a really strong antioxidant that won'y be messing around wiht other systems.

Considering SOD and C60. Concerned about the former because I'm sure i have depleted GSH and I don't want to ramp up h2o2. The c60 is just a bit scary frankly...

I don't know enough to give advice on specific antioxidants, but I'll mention two more things. Sometimes it takes courage to be cautious. I would get desperate at times, with no diagnosis and frightening symptoms. You want to do something, but you don't want to do something harmful. It sounds like you're taking the right road, getting advice, doing research, to try to make the best decision.

I've also had good luck educating my doctors, and having them educate me. Sometimes I'll print out a journal article for them. Other times they'll tell me when I'm making some mistake. It sounds like you are trying to keep them on board with what you are doing, and I think that's good.

Best wishes and good luck to you.

The c60 is just a bit scary frankly...

I'm curious as to what it is about c60 that you find scary. Is it just that it's relatively new and unusual? There are a lot of erroneous claims of c60 danger floating around that usually derive from misinterpretation of the literature.

I guess just it is just new and unusual, probably not rational.

I am a bit concerned that I may have some sort of immune reaction to it since it is not a "natural" molecule (whatever that means).

In any case, I want to give it a shot.

I guess just it is just new and unusual, probably not rational.

I am a bit concerned that I may have some sort of immune reaction to it since it is not a "natural" molecule (whatever that means).

In any case, I want to give it a shot.

Actually, if you've ever eaten food cooked over a fire, you've probably had microscopic amounts of it. C60 is pretty ubiquitous, being a product of combustion. Pharmaceutical drugs aren't natural molecules, in that they aren't found in nature. C60-oo has been in thousands of humans now, and has a pretty good record as far as I can tell. I'm not aware of any significant adverse events.

I just wanted to update everyone:

Long story short, It seems I can't tolerate ANY immune modulators. My doctor thinks some simply enhance my autoimmunity while others increase the proliferation of my guy yeast which spurrs more neuro symptoms.

I opted not to try c60, as I read some concerns regarding stem cell and glutathione depletion. I plan on taking it for a recover and repair phase.

I stoped them , started on high strength oregano and a got a bit better…but now I'm back to a bad relapse.

Were going to try to go after the yeast and parasite (taxonomy unkown) along with some detox and general anti pathogens like samento and see what happens.

I also started on PQQ and d ribose which really helped my mental symptoms and stamina.

It's encouraging that you had some periods when you felt better. It's a sign that something is working properly, at least sometimes.

Keep working with your doctor and stay positive. A relapse is scary but it doesn't mean that things won't turn back in a good direction soon.

There are many good people on this site who will try their best to give you encouragement and good advice.

Have you tried the n-acetyl glucosamine?

If you haven't, you are missing out on one of the few things which might solve your problem.

Here is something which may be of interest. A chemotherapy agent, Oxaliplatin, is
effective against tumors, but causes peripheral neuropathy as a side effect.

Quercetin and rutin helped to inhibit this, probably by protecting against oxidative stress.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24152430

Also, a note for smithx: tiadan did report trying n-acetyl glucosamine, without much benefit,
in an earlier post in this thread.

Good luck to tiadan, and thanks to everyone who is trying to help.
Edited by cudBwrong, 26 December 2013 - 01:52 PM.

From my perspective, this is a strange thread...

 

I can't find a single autoimmune disorder that TH17 isn't involved in, including Lupus and Sjogren's.. And, often, people suffering from these disorders have one or more of them. So.. I'm not clear why/how the focus of the discussion drifts away from the primary culprit... TH17...

 

Just two reference links, among dozens/hundreds, linking TH17 to Lupus and Sjogren's...

• Identification of IL-18 and Th17 Cells in Salivary Glands of Patients with Sjögren’s Syndrome, and Amplification of IL-17-Mediated Secretion of Inflammatory Cytokines from Salivary Gland Cells by IL-18
• Emerging role of IL-17 and Th17 cells in systemic lupus erythematosus

I have previously summarized my experience in curing myself of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome via, what I believe, are Epigenetic means. I have also summarized an experience of a friend in eliminating her symptoms of Interstitial Cystitis, another autoimmune disorder. I provided reference links to support an Epigenetic Explanation of these results immediately after those posts...

 

With regard to inflammatory disorders with clear Epigenetic roots, I've come to believe that it's useful to focus only on drugs/supplements that have shown Epigenetic promise and specific good outcomes for the disorder in question...

 

TH17 implicates Epigenetic processes...

• Epigenetic Instability of Cytokine and Transcription Factor Gene Loci Underlies Plasticity of the T Helper 17 Cell Lineage
• Genome-wide methylation profiling in Crohn's disease identifies altered epigenetic regulation of key host defense mechanisms including the Th17 pathway

I notice the following line from that first study...

 

"Th17+IL-12 cells demonstrated substantial increases in H3K27me3 modifications at most hypersensitive sites across the Il17a-Il17f locus."

 

... and I know, from writing up my friend's experience, that H3K27me3 is involved in Interstitial Cystitis and that Curcumin has been shown to positively address Epigenetic effects at H3K27me3. (See my more extended summary here.)

 

Is there evidence in the literature that Curcumin might make a difference? Yes... Many... Mostly positive, one negative that I saw... I, frankly, discount it... Here are two that caught my eye...

 

http://cat.inist.fr/...cpsidt=27448089
http://link.springer...2248-012-9432-8

 

So, a great Curcumin formulation, with a carefully thought through dosing regimen, is, imo, among the best place to begin to address these autoimmune disorders.

 

I sometimes think our enthusiasm about novel approaches to LE gets in the way of our remembering the basics.... For example, High Dose Omega 3 and Vitamin D3... There are many studies about the beneficial effects of Omega 3s on Lupus... All it takes is Google Scholar to find them... There are an equally large number about Vitamin D3...

 

I've begun to work with another friend with on autoimmune issues... The things on her list of supplements...

• Omega 3s
• Vitamin D3
• Curcumin
• Boswellia
• C60-OO

Edited by HighDesertWizard, 07 December 2014 - 07:05 PM.

 

The c60 is just a bit scary frankly...

I'm curious as to what it is about c60 that you find scary. Is it just that it's relatively new and unusual? There are a lot of erroneous claims of c60 danger floating around that usually derive from misinterpretation of the literature.

 

 

Hey niner... I am inclined to believe that C60-OO could make a positive difference for autoimmune disorders. However, I haven't found a deep discussion of its use for them anywhere at Longecity. Of course, there are a lot of C60 posts to go through and I haven't gone through all them. Your thoughts about this?

Oh, this is a very old thread, and most of them have been mentioned already, but I compiled a list of Th-17 reducers (no references, sorry, didn't have a working laptop when I wrote it and it was a headache) in this thread on depression:

Exercise
Fixing sleep cycle
Lowering gut inflammation
Reducing stress
Proline restriction
Intermittent fasting

And the supplemental stuff
Circumin
Retinoic acid
Vitamin D3
Zinc
Ursolic acid (spray is more bioavailable)
Low dose naltrexone (maybe dexreonaltrexone, which could be used in a much higher dose as it doesn't mess with the opioid receptors, only the TLR4 receptors -- OK toll like receptor 4 and lipopolysaccharides aka LPS probably deserve their own thread)
ECGC
Resveratrol
Berberine
DHA
Cannabidiol
N-acetylglucosamine
Propolis
Baicalin
Grape seed extract
Triptolide
Cordyceps
Fucoxanthin
Olive leaf
Luteolin

and a short list which has been mostly covered of IL-10 support:

Probiotics (B. breve)
Garlic(very tentative)
Exercise
Glycine

As all of these are natural substances, I'm sure they unfortunately have other immunomodulatory properties that weren't desired by the OP. If tiadan's still around, and hasn't resolved his condition, he may want to keep an eye out for the straight up IL-17 inhibitors being tested for psoriasis. They have weird names like ixekizumab and secukinumab, think the "mab" must stand for monoclonal antibody, but I'm not sure of what the heck the rest means

Hi all,

 

I have struggled with ocd/anxiety most of my life, I also have hashimottos though only one of the two antibodies showed a low number.  I am on levoxyl which has helped stem my panic attacks but other then that I still felt lousy.

 

I have tried NAG, and I find even just 750mg a day seems to really improve a lot of my symptoms and anxiety.  The major downside I have is after a week of taking it I start feeling very lethargic.  Anyone have any idea why this is and how to counter act it?  Other then the lethargy it seems to work great for me.