LONGECITY

We are two relatively intelligent people, yes? Why are our worldviews so at odds? What are our fundamental underlying assumptions that are making us see things so differently? These are the questions that really interests me.

I should hope you know I don't care about "winning" this debate (not that much anyway ) ). You brought up the crux of why I get into these debates. It is this that I would like to understand also. I do respect you intellectually.

I can learn a lot more from people who have views much different than my own. If two people agree on everything you only need one.

I can learn a lot more from people who have views much different than my own.

Agreed.

When confronted with a new idea I tend to intellectually attack it as strongly as I can. This doesn't necessarily mean I think the idea is wrong in any way, often I agree with the idea or part of it but am not sure why. Trying to pick apart the idea allows me to understand it better, then those ideas which survive the attack I keep as part of my own viewpoint. Unfortunately this confrontational method can be rather stressful... I've tried to develop a more constructive method of approaching ideas, but it hasn't always worked...

Here is an interesting tidbit. I am not sure this is even a bad idea considering how ignorant I find most of my countrymen (and women) are with respect to their real rights and what is embodied in the Constitution.

http://story.news.ya...ls_constitution

Schools to Teach Constitution on Sept. 17

By BEN FELLER, AP Education Writer
1 hour, 11 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The Constitution long has ensured that Congress can't tell schools what to teach. But that's no longer the case for at least one topic — the Constitution itself.

The Education Department outlined Tuesday how it plans to enforce a little-known provision that Congress passed in 2004: Every school and college that receives federal money must teach about the Constitution on Sept. 17, the day the document was adopted in 1787.

Schools can determine what kind of educational program they want, but they must hold one every year on the now-named "Constitution Day and Citizenship Day." And if Sept. 17 falls on a weekend or holiday, schools must schedule a program immediately before or after that date.

Historically, the federal government has avoided dictating what or when anything must be taught because those powers rest with the states under the 10th Amendment. The Education Department's Web site even underlines that point, saying matters such as the development of curricula and the setting of course requirements fall outside federal authority.

But Congress stepped in when it came to the nation's foundational document, thanks to Sen. Robert Byrd (news, bio, voting record), the West Virginia Democrat who keeps a copy of the Constitution in his pocket. Byrd inserted the Constitution lesson mandate into a massive spending bill in 2004, frustrated by what he called a huge ignorance on the part of many Americans about history.
{excerpt}

if everyone reads the constitution it will only show them how it doesn't matter anymore.

If something like the commerce clause can be stretched to the ridiculous proportions it has been yes can be interpreted to mean no.

I wanted to come back and add a little insight Ive had lately. I know this may irritate any proffessional teachers out there but has anyone looked at the college courses required to be a teacher? It is a four year program but as a friend showed me the other day we have dropped the adjetives in teaching. There are no Math teachers, or Science teachers , They have become proffessional teachers with only about 2 colledge hourse seperating the Science teachers from Math teachers or English. About 6 college hours is all thats required for any singular subject. Lets say a science or biology teacher would have these courses Natural science(Or whatever base science a college offers) Bilogy I, and Biology II With a lab in any of the selected . I know this because when I first entered college; it was to be a teacher. These teachers dont know much moe than your average guy on the street about Bio. They have 2 years of college dedicated to learning how to teach. but only one semester worth if that Of actual background. Now I know why none of my teachers could discuss telemerase with me until I hit college.

Will I change my position? Will you change your position?

Haha, just looking back... things haven't changed much eh?

We ought to drop high school in favor of apprenticeship programs of some sort. Given the heavy overlap between high school and undergrad, its become redundant anyways. If elementary school graduates spent a few years as apprentices in various positions, they would be able to make a much more informed decision about what to do next, and be much happier for it.

Without high school there would be less demand for 'general education' teacheres so maybe we could be more picky in choosing them. Not just hiring every undergraduate student who realized they don't have the intelligence or ambition to get into med school or do research...

I heard on NPR a few weeks ago of a man that thought in an inner city poor school. Most of these students had English as a second language and came from very poor families. They where ALL in the top 10% of students in the nation. These students where nothing special, their teacher was. They all came in before school started and left hours after school because they wanted to; he made them want to learn. He challenged them and the accepted the challenge. I think them where in 5th grade or so and performed and understood an entire Shakespeare play.

Why doesn't the entire education system treat kids like this? I, for one, know that I could have been challenged much more. The education of kids is the future. We should not take it lightly we should help children learn all they can as fast as they can and make it fun for them. The education system today is more worried about leaving that 1 student behind that can't keep up that they let all the other students’ minds rot is the slow school system.

Your post reminds me of that 80s movie "Stand and Deliver"....you should watch it. It was really good. http://www.amazon.co...551322?v=glance