LONGECITY

I can't decide whether phytoestrogens are pro-estrogen or anti-estrogen.

Lots of websites suggest that they increase estrogen because they fit the estrogen receptor and cause corresponding estro-effects.

https://www.belmarra...vels-naturally/

But on the other hand, when they latch onto the estrogen receptor, they block the action of real estrogen which is far more estrogenic. Thus, their effect is paradoxically anti-estrogenic from this perspective.

I've always thought that phytoestrogens (the ones contained in soybean and all other plant foods) are basically anti-estrogens.

For instance if you have estradiol with a value of 100,000,000 and a phytoestrogen with a value of 1,000 competing for the same receptor, the phytoestrogen (although estrogenic) works as an anti-estrogen by blocking the potent effects of estradiol. This mechanism along with adequate dietary-fiber is thought to be the reason why vegetarian and vegan men and women have lower estrogen levels and reduced risk of estrogenic-related cancers.  

Also: ground flaxseed is one of the most antiestrogenic foods there is. It lowers estrogen in many ways:

Omega-3s- Dilute out the omega-6 in tissues, that contributes to prostagland-E2, which is a potent stimulator of aromatase.

Fiber- Binds to estrogen in the intestines and carries it out of the body

Lignans- Occupy estrogen receptors and ward off the stimulation of potent estrogens  /  inhibits aromatase  /  shifts estrogen metabolism to produce less potent metabolites such as 2-hydroxyestradiol.

Yeah MisterE thanks for the confirmation -- it fits what I've been experiencing subjectively.

There's a lot of misinformation out there, such as that legumes or soy or wheat are estrogenic.My experience has been the opposite.

Yeah MisterE thanks for the confirmation -- it fits what I've been experiencing subjectively.

 

There's a lot of misinformation out there, such as that legumes or soy or wheat are estrogenic.My experience has been the opposite.

Low-fat/high-fiber foods as a rule of thump tend to decrease estrogen. Wheat-fiber is strongly anti-estrogenic. In terms of soy being estrogenic, I do think that soybean-oil and rather the linoleic-acid it contains, could promote estrogen downstream, via prostaglandin-E2 synthesis. 

But low-fat foods and high-fiber foods like barley, oats, beans, lentils, whole-grains, vegetables, fruits, spices, are the healthiest in that they directly pull estrogen out of circulation via bile-excretion, but also changes in the bacteria in the intestines in an anti-estrogenic way as well. Also these foods are low in fat, so you become much leaner, which cuts down on aromatase-expression. These are all the reasons why I think that low-fat/high-fiber complex-carbohydrate diets explain why men eating this way have better hormonal balance compared to the rest of the population: 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/10883675

https://www.ncbi.nlm...tikin estradiol

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19087438

Lignans- Occupy estrogen receptors and ward off the stimulation of potent estrogens  /  inhibits aromatase  /  shifts estrogen metabolism to produce less potent metabolites such as 2-hydroxyestradiol.

I've seen this explanation for years i.e. phytoestrogens bind to estrogen receptors and stimulate the receptor less than estrogen binding to the receptor.  What I don't understand is that unless phytestrogens bind to ALL the estrogen receptors, you still have free receptors for actual estrogen to bind to.  

THoughs?

MisterE, regarding fiber taking estrogen out of circulation (via bile secretion) it does the same with androgens like testosterone. Does fiber bind more to estrogen or testosterone? If it excretes both equally, then the net effect is just having less of both T and E.

I've seen this explanation for years i.e. phytoestrogens bind to estrogen receptors and stimulate the receptor less than estrogen binding to the receptor.  What I don't understand is that unless phytestrogens bind to ALL the estrogen receptors, you still have free receptors for actual estrogen to bind to.  

 

 

 

THoughs?

 

Perhaps, it probably only partially blocks the potent estrogen signals, but over time could significantly reduce the overall estrogen exposure. 

MisterE, regarding fiber taking estrogen out of circulation (via bile secretion) it does the same with androgens like testosterone. Does fiber bind more to estrogen or testosterone? If it excretes both equally, then the net effect is just having less of both T and E.

It might do that as well, however vegan and vegetarian diets, as well as diets low in fat and protein and high in carbohydrates and fiber also tend to raise SHBG. SHBG binds to testosterone with a high affinity and prevents testosterone from being excreted from the body or metabolized into other metabolites, thus increasing to total-amount of testosterone. Diabetes is known to produce low SHBG and with low SHBG comes less total testosterone. Luckily people eating low-fat / high-fiber plant-based diets don't have diabetes:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15940383