: I posted legitimate guestions in response to documented
past statements by smartpowders, Mike McCandless, Mike M, 1Fast400, or whatever his username is now. You are welcome to take the same approach as Mike M and claim I am full of it. I am still waiting for verifiable answers to the questions I posted and its pretty obvious to others who is full of it. The guy can not or will not do anything to give anyone who reads these forums any confidence that he or his product is what he says it is.
He himself questioned the legitimacy of another vendor in this forum because customers had to ask for CoA's and they were not posted on the vendor's website, yet in this very thread he does the same thing and asks member czukles
to e-mail him for Lab tests. He says that smartpowders does independent lab tests on all their products. He says he has posted them here before. My 'massive google' skills have not been able to find them. Maybe I need some help finding them? I count 10 products on the smartpowders website.
Yohimbine HCl Caps
Where are the 10 CoA's and 10 Lab reports done by smartpowders for these products??? And that's assumming he has only ever ordered one shipment from China or wherever he gets his stuff. Are they tested for heavy metals and other carcinogens? Why should it be this difficult to get them from him??? Will he let us compare the 'bs' manufacturer COAs to his 'independent lab test' of the same product? Wouldn't that be interesting and beneficial information to the supplement community???
All I get from Mike M / smartpowders is talk, talk, talk, and him calling me a clown, insane, dense, or whatever other term he can come up with to distract people from his failure to answer legitimate questions.
The guy is a viral marketer, that's his job, that's how he made\makes money. He doesn't contribute anything worthwhile here on nootropics or supplements like Resveratrol because he does not use them or know much about them. Look at this post he just made where he starts making trouble in the Resveratrol forum with innuendos and accusations about the quality of Resveratrol products on the market:http://www.imminst.o...-do-t30933.html
No verifiable facts, just FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) about other vendors. That's his MO. Re-read my first post! Talk about prescient. I would have thought the guy would have waited a bit after getting called out on his business tactics but he is arrogant...that's obvious. Want to bet he soon comes out with the ultimate, totally triple tested by RTx labs Resveratrol product? He did the same thing with protein supplements on the body building forums years ago....see my previous posts. He is back in the business probably promising his partners to double, triple, quadruple sales of what 'should' be safe commodity products.
How does he do that...it seems by trolling the forums, finding ways to sneak in references to his website, collecting e-mail addresses, and creating FUD. He accuses me of working for a competitor or having some longstanding grudge. I very easily pointed out that if anything, he has a lot more to explain than me regarding first time and suspicous posters. He is going to prove some guy really ordered from him by showing his order? How's that? And if it was a legitimate order, how's that give me confidence in his respect for the privacy of his customers. He and his company need to prove themselves and their product, not me.
If that's not enough, he wants to have the Navigators check IPs. Give me a break. The fact that this guy would play so dumb about IP checks raises more red flags in my mind that almost anything else I have posted. This guy is a professional forum\internet marketer. He has 1000's and 1000's of forum posts on other boards. He has been accused of 'ghost posting' more than once. He knows damn well that there are plenty of internet proxies that could disguise the IP of a forum post yet he pretends to claim that an IP check would erase any doubts about suspicous posts on smartpowders.com. Seriously?
BTW, here is another 'ghost posting' accusation from someone that actually knows him (apparently all too well given the bitter feelings)."You had to make up a fake screen name to bash controlled labs, ThermoLife and myself. Remember that long time lurker? hmm But go ahead and play the tough guy. Cause we all know what a bad ass you are. ".
, you asked for more from me. Here's some more...
Here Mike claims to have 'bought' Primaforce...http://forum.bodybui...amp;postcount=1
Yet he also claims to have some very simple, standard non compete, that he now refuses to post because I'm insane for questioning it. So did he buy Primaforce or did he buy something like less than 50% ownership of primaforce that allows him to not violate this non compete agreement that he claims he has. If he only has less than 50% ownership of primaforce then why is he claiming he bought the company? I guess if I buy a couple shares of cisco I bought the company. Technically accurate but potentially if not intentionally misleading in my mind, but hey, its the internet. And if he owns any part of Primaforce then why is he on this forum direct marketing primaforce products contrary to the forum rules???
He also posts that he is 'CEO Primaforce' and in the same post he says his duties are "limited to the message boards
and product approval" Some CEO job. Is quality control and posting of CoAs/lab analysis part of product approval? Guess not.
Here's another post right before Mike 'partnered with' rather than bought Primaforce:"I'm a very grassroots person. I give a flying flip about mainstream marketing. Bruce knows the ins/outs of china better than anyone I've spoke with. If that is ALL he had to worry about, all I had to worry about was the grassroots marketing and logistics, it would be fun. However, bruce and I are both greedy."
Another..."I can't do something half way. If I get on board, I can't sit on a beach. It's not my style. I will want to do the best job I can. Which means hours upon hours on the boards."http://forum.bodybui...amp;postcount=8
And what exactly is the relationship between smartpowders and primaforce??? Are they one and the same?
Here is one just for kbtoy
. Someone asks Mike, "When you going to write your book on the ethics of business, what to do, not what to do, etc?"
Mike's reply: "Not sure I'm the best person to write an ethics book . I do want to write a book about starting/owning/running a company. I'm honestly just to lazy to do it. I think more people would buy my "How to date a fitness model" book instead. "
I guess the smiley means he was kidding.
Here's a few comments about Mike from a long time competitor..."Look, Mike (and I) is not the "end all, be all" of business advice in sports nutrition either but man, its no secret how to make $$$ in this industry and the only people saying, "nah man, I do not want a company that does 8 figures a year, I won't sell out my principles" are the guys who CAN'T do it and refuse to the follow the model on how to do it."
"If I wanted to make money in this industry and had no clue I would hire Mike in a minute if he were available.""In fact, if I ever wanted to get into e-tailing on any level, Mike would be the first guy I contact."
On whether 'Mike would sell his own mother if the money was right'
"LMAO! Maybe. Mike is a bit Machiavellian in the way he does business."http://forum.bodybui...p;postcount=238
Two post concerning Mike and his behavior on forums. Funny, kinda similar to the way he responded to my questions...."List of companies and other individuals in the industry who have effectively made themselves look like childesh little morons. This is what happens when you guys spend your time on message boards and act like little girls passing gossip and bitching at each other rather than spending time making better products and making sure we have the next level of supplementation when the PH ban goes into effect. Here is the list.
Bill Llewelyn and Molecular Nutrition
Pat Arnold and Ergopharm
********, Bulk Nutrition and Label Claim Testing
Ulter and whatever his little company is.
http://forum.bodybui...p;postcount=175"This thread has been helpful. While I still have many supplement companies whose reputations are unproven. But at least there are now 2 that I can cross off my buying list due to the fact that they hire or are run by morons...Congratulations for the fine job of representing your companies. I would never trust my health to either of you."
On Mike's previous claim, in this thread
, that he did not test products he competed with..."I have said it before and I will say it again, mike should not be testing any products that compete with products he is involved with manufacturing or distributing, its a conflict of interest. "http://forum.bodybui...p;postcount=152
On Mike playing martyr for getting sued soooo many times trying to clean up the industry...."Though why is it so surprising that ulter is suing mike? if the shoe were on the other foot you would see the same thing. There has been bad blood between these two since the beginning. Its not like these two are going to shake hands, hug and forgive....Lets say ulter puts up a test of mikes product on "truth-in-labeling.com", a site that ulter owned, that mike thought was invalid or fraudulent and then advertised his product as having superior results, mike would be suing the hell out of ulter. Now keep in mind that mike would have a test of his own that said otherwise, just as ulter does....I think its sad thats it has come to a lawsuit, but to be honest with these two its really hard to see how it could have come out otherwise. "http://forum.bodybui...p;postcount=136
On Mike's 'Independent Lab':"I doubt either of these two would be considered examples of professional behavior....But for those of you supporting 1 fast, you people have extraordinarily broad minds when it comes to the term "independent lab".
Listen folks, I started this thread for the exact reasons I outlined in my first post. Mike has likely leveraged and exploited grassroots, viral, guerilla, whatever kind of marketing you want to call it, to make some decent money off internet sales of basically unregulated supplements. Good for him as long as nobody got hurt and his Karma is in tact. He then 'retired' but is now back in the business targeting nootropics and other life enhancing supplements that interest the people that view this forum. He has admitted his expertise and interest is in 'grasroots marketing' through forums\boards. He has admitted he needs to spend hours a day doing this to do his job well. He admits no personal interest or experience with nootropics. I have more than made a case that some of his tactics and history call into question his ethics and the reliability of the claims he makes and has made about his products, his company(s), and his past. All I have asked for is verifiable proof backing the claims and statements he has made. He is selling products we ingest! Is it too much to ask?
Viral Marketers are not supposed to be allowed here. The navigators have a tough job managing this because the anonymity of the internet makes it difficult to control, especially if the viral marketer has half a brain. How hard is it to use anonymous internet proxies to create a few new users a month? (Or pay some people with money or free product to post for you?) How hard is it to use these accounts or paid registered users to lurk or occasionally make some random posts to establish 'post count' or 'registration date' credibility? If you were a professional forum marketer with no ethics and you considered it your job to troll the boards, what would you do? I am not saying that this is what Mike does or how he made/makes his money. I am saying that nothing he has done or said, here or in his past, has contributed much to his credibility with respect to this possibiliy. I am asking him if he will proove
my suspicions wrong...or at least show he cares enough to try!
A few people here (including the vendor we are talking about) have questioned my questions because I started this thread with my first post. Great job! Welcome to the internet!!! You can't completely trust anyone, much less their unverified claims. Now what are you going to do about it??? I see two options.
1) We can play games going back and forth questioning each others motives. The problem I see with that is that I am better at it (unless naming calling and ad hominen attacks count), it only prooves suspicions, and it distracts from the issue at hand which is the safety and purity of the products sold.
2) The vendor in question can go overboard to fully and completely answer my questions in ways that can be verified. If you were trying to run a legitimate business, isn't that what you would do??? Why would you resort to name calling and bs half answers???
One of the generally understood principles here is to do your own research, its your body and your life. I have done that with respect to this vendor and have shared my concerns and findings with the rest of y'all. You can ask dumb
questions like kbtoy
, "what do business ethics have to do with quality of product
" and "be satisfied with his products
" without seeing the COAs and verifiable lab tests posted, or you can ask for and should expect more from the vendors we use for products we ingest.
There are a lot of smart people here with a lot of experience in chemistry, biology, nutrition, and other sciences...all trying to live smarter, healthier, and longer. The internet can be a scammers dream but it can also be used to collectively outwit the snakeoil salesmen. Can we not use my questions as a starting point or methodology to verify vendor claims and hold them accountable for the products they sell? Are any of the questions I posed to Mike and smartpowders unfair based on the statments he has made? I am open to suggestions but the more I look into this vendor the more questions I have (I am at 17 now). Given Mike's experience in this industry and his supposed concern for customers, shouldn't he be leading the way in answering questions #9 and #10, much less #1,#4,#5 and #7???
I don't have much more to contribute if this continues with the name calling. If we want to talk scientific method applied to verifying vendor claims I am all ears. To be honest I think there is a strong case for having this guy permanently banned from these forums according to the rules posted by the navigators:
"Imminst Navigators will continue to delete all obvious spam and ban viral marketers from the open forums
"This DOES NOT mean the Vendor Area is for direct marketing and selling. Anyone trying to sell product through the Vendor Area will be suspended from posting.
It is for discussing aspects of various brand name products (formulations, dosage, changes) or retailers (no CoA, shipping problems, legal issues)."http://www.imminst.o...mp;#entry329080
But here is Mike M /smartpowders selling his wares in the vendor forum...http://www.imminst.o...rce-t30121.html
Like any of you I like cheap product but I value my health and safety above all else. If smartpowders can deliver, cool, but like I said ealier, color me skeptical, especially now. Until then I think I will stick to geratam\nootropil or another pharmaceutical prepared 'cetam no matter the cost.
Thx for playing,
PS: Do I have ADHD?
**Bold in quotes for emphasis by me