7 Day Water fasting insomnia - How to deal...
Biologist 21 Jan 2019
Should I either just accept a few nights of sleeplessness and hope to get a few hours in towards the end of the fast (maybe you only need 4 hours after all in a fasted state). Or should I try to build a regimen, pharmaceutically aided or not, to get more sleep and make the whole process less stressful (in the good way) and easier to complete. My current thinking is incorporating all the interventions below, coupled with 5 mg melatonin and having antihistamines OR etizolam on hand. Let me know if you have any advice here!
INTERVENTIONS
Cold shower before bed (a handful of user reports)
Exercise before bed (a handful of users say it helps, usually exercising before bed is determinental to sleep but perhaps not in a fasted state)
Meditation in bed (Great idea IMO, you could focus on your pulse or the air coming in and out of your nose)
Only going to bed dead tired (after normal waking hours, could be better than trying to force sleep)
Stricter sleep hygiene (no blue light etc)
In order of potency, there are also more potent rx antihistamines available.
xEva 22 Jan 2019
if, in addition to not being able to fall asleep, you have high heart rate and feel queasy and just a touch nauseous, these could be signs of toxicity, which is common at the onset of ketosis, when the fats start to melt and the liver unloads lotsa bile. Some people take activated charcoal, others resort to daily enemas.
Re cold shower and exercise, in my experience it's the opposite: warm bath/shower and read or watch something boring. To each his own.
Biologist 22 Jan 2019
Not had any issues with feeling queasy, but good to note.
I tried a ICE cold shower last night and it really calmed me down a lot, much more than a hot shower does. Try going really hot first then finish 30 seconds ice cold.
sthira 22 Jan 2019
Having trouble sleeping day 2 and onwards during water fasts. A very common side effect. I've done 5 days before, but I need to be able to work so not sleeping isn't ideal. Looking to make a regimen to get through it!
Should I either just accept a few nights of sleeplessness and hope to get a few hours in towards the end of the fast (maybe you only need 4 hours after all in a fasted state). Or should I try to build a regimen, pharmaceutically aided or not, to get more sleep and make the whole process less stressful (in the good way) and easier to complete....
Just an opinion here, and since you seem already experienced in fasting, you may have already worked out your sleeplessness issues by now.
But for me, when fasting intrudes on aspects of everyday life, I stop fasting. Return to it when it's less disruptive. If sleep interruption is affecting work because of insomnia, this seems like a reason to stop fasting.
That is, if the body is calling for less sleep, I give it less sleep. Maybe it's working out some circadian rhythm voodoo that no one comprehends, voodoo that researchers are only beginning to investigate. Maybe it's healthy that you can't sleep?
Meanwhile, I think there are very good reasons for setting aside allotted time to fast -- rest, take it easy, sleep or stay awake and pondering the great bright full moon, howl, whatever. Supervised fasts might be a tool -- where you're fasting under careful scrutiny in a dedicated facility, like True North. I've not done this, I'd like to do this, it's $150 a night for the privilege.
If your body was mine, though, I'd not try to trick it or think you'll outsmart it by taking substances aimed at drugging you into dream time. Taking stuff to prevent what the body is attempting to do during a fast would seem to be contrary to the fast itself. One key reason to even bother with abstaining from food is to reset the body -- included in the reset may be the body's sleep habits.
Biologist 22 Jan 2019
Thanks for your feedback, I think you might be right.
Without a proper level of insulin, your body will upregulate orexin in the brain until you eat (Willie, Chemelli, Sinton, & Yanagisawa, 2001). Orexin will give you artificial energy and inhibit sleep. Also Dr Cung alleged fasting expert says "The increase in nor-adrenalin and cortisol can disturb sleep. Often, we advise people to only go to sleep when tired. This can sometimes mean cutting sleep time down to 3 hours! Most who do that find they are still fully alert, so it’s fine." https://www.dietdoct...e-sleep-fasting
But also heard that insomnia can cause long term insulin resistance, which could be counter to the desired effects of fasting, something to look into more closely.
In any case, the safest regimen to me seems to be
1. Only go to bed dead tired, which might be a lot later than normal. Realize that you can get by with less sleep fasted.
2. Exercise before bed (many water fasters recommend this contrary to what you'd normally think)
3. Take a hot then ice cold shower before bed (Wim Hoff method, water fasters generally recommend cold over hot)
4. Meditate in bed, focusing on your breath or pulse. See bedtime as bonus time to meditate. Keep melatonin as a benign backup.
sthira 22 Jan 2019
This sounds reasonable. Personally, I sleep less, too, while prolonged fasting; but then during the day I may get crazy tired from the lack. Sleep and fasting are ttricky, though, because energy levels are rising and falling often dramatically during a PF. The body is signaling sometimes frantically -- Go Find Food, You Moron.1. Only go to bed dead tired, which might be a lot later than normal. Realize that you can get by with less sleep fasted.
2. Exercise before bed (many water fasters recommend this contrary to what you'd normally think)
3. Take a hot then ice cold shower before bed (Wim Hoff method, water fasters generally recommend cold over hot)
4. Meditate in bed, focusing on your breath or pulse. See bedtime as bonus time to meditate. Keep melatonin as a benign backup.
As for exercising before bed during a long fast, that's something I can't do. Or else I'll be jacked up for more sleepless hours. Then again, it depends on what exercise means. Casually walking, restorative yoga, romping sex -- these are fine. But anything too vigorous just seems like it's priming the ancient body to go thee now and feed thyself.
I'm not one bit interested in ice baths or cold baths during fasting, haha -- I'm usually always freezing and my body temperature drops lower than usual. I seek warmth! I understand Wim Hoff's point of view; I just can't do what he can do with the body I have, which is a much different body than his. I'm naturally ectomorphic, add PFing and CE and CR and heavy exercise to my frame is just too damned much. Too much stress on my body. I don't feel like I need to squeeze every last inch out every single fast or stress on the body. Easy does it, I have to keep telling myself.
Meditation is typically great while fasting -- and for me one of the really great reasons to keep on fasting. Watching my mind at work takes all kinds of dimensions. Mental clarity, the reorganization of my thinking, the processing of traumas, bad news, joys and horrors are all great reasons why I'll keep periodic, prolonged fasting in my toolbox against the ravages of aging.
Edited by sthira, 23 January 2019 - 12:05 AM.
Biologist 22 Jan 2019
I'm not sure about the exercise either, but i've read a handful of recommendations for it. Normally it would keep me awake.
Ice cold showers might indeed not be for everyone, but they definitely are for me as a younger, more muscular Wim Hoff. Still, it's only neurological, it's not as if your core temperature goes down after 30 seconds and it's pure bliss going into bed afterwards. You should try it, a bit of stress is good isn't that why we fast in the first place
sthira 23 Jan 2019
I agree with you about stressing the body to make it more resilient. We silly apes aren't much different from most other forms of life on the planet, all of which seem to strengthen under stress. Insert tired out old Nietzsche quote here...
Don't die before the singularity.
Kimer Med 23 Jan 2019
Here's my approach to sleep hygeine: