Vinpocetine research
zoolander 03 Sep 2007
Ideggyogy Sz. 2007 Jul 30;60(7-8):301-10.
Investigation of the effect of vinpocetine on cerebral blood flow and cognitive functions]
Valikovics A.
Borsod-Abaúj-Zemplén Megyei Kórház és Egyetemi Oktató Kórház, Neurológia-Toxikológia-Stroke Osztály, Miskolc.
INTRODUCTION: Vinpocetine has been widely used in the treatment of ischaemic cerebrovascular diseases and dementias of vascular type. Chronic cerebral hypoperfusion plays an important role in the development of certain types of dementia. In consequence of complex mode of action vinpocetine plays a significant role in the improvement of cerebral hypoperfusion. The symptoms of mild cognitive impairment considered as "predementia" are similar to those of dementia, although milder. AIMS: The authors investigated the characteristics of the blood flow parameters of patients with ischemic stroke and mild cognitive impairment both in resting conditions or following chemical stimulus as well as they investigated the severity of mental deterioration in the two patient groups. In a pilot study the authors examined the influence of 12-week long oral vinpocetine therapy on the blood flow parameters and cognitive functions in the two patient groups. METHODS: The authors studied the blood flow velocity of a. cerebri media in resting conditions and after 30 sec of breath holding with transcranial Doppler before treatment and after a 12-week long oral vinpocetine treatment. At the same time psychometric tests (MMSE, ADAS-Cog) were used in order to examine cognitive functions, while the general condition of the patients were scored by Clinical Global Impression (CGI) scale. RESULTS: After a 12-week long oral vinpocetine treatment the increase of blood flow velocity in resting conditions compared to the baseline values was significant in the vascular group. The percent increase of mean velocity after the breath holding TCD test showed a significant increase compared to the baseline in both patient groups. The authors found a significant improvement of cognitive functions after a 12-week long oral vinpocetine therapy using psychometric tests. The improvement was identical in both groups. The general condition of patients improved significantly according to both the investigator's and the patients' opinion; patients with mild cognitive impairment judged the improvement higher. CONCLUSIONS: Vinpocetine improved the cerebrovascular reserve capacity in both patient groups and favourably influenced the cognitive status and general condition of patients with chronic hypoperfusion. The authors recommend the use of vinpocetine for the treatment of patients with mild cognitive impairment.
PMID: 17713111 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
and another
Orv Hetil. 2007 Jul 22;148(29):1353-8.
The role of vinpocetine in the treatment of cerebrovascular diseases based in human studies
[Article in Hungarian]
Bagoly E, Fehér G, Szapáry L.
Pécsi Tudományegyetem, Altalános Orvostudományi Kar Neurológiai Klinika Pécs Rét u 2 7623.
INTRODUCTION: It shows the importance of cerebrovascular diseases that they are the third main cause of death exceeded only by coronary artery diseases and cancer. Cerebral ischemia leads to irreversible brain damage, thereby it is important to rescue the hypoperfused areas. Patients without stroke but with chronic cerebral hypoperfusion can also benefit from the increasing of the cerebral blood flow. METHODS: The aim of this review was to summarize the indications and the potential effects of vinpocetine in acute and chronic cerebrovascular diseases based on clinical studies. RESULTS: There is no evidence that vinpocetine treatment is applicable in acute ischemic stroke, only few study with low patient number showed a slight but significant improvement in the patients conditions. In chronic cerebrovascular patients after single dose and long-term vinpocetine therapy, PET, TCD, SPECT and NIRS examinations showed increasing perfusion and elevated glucose and O 2 consumption of the examined areas, furthermore significant improvement of the rheologic factors was detected. A meta-analysis of international clinical studies showed a significant improvement in cognitive achievement in chronic stroke patients after oral therapy. CONCLUSION: The cited studies showed the potential multi-pharmacological effects of vinpocetine and its beneficial hemorheological potential. The drug also improves the blood flow and the metabolism of the affected brain areas. There is increasing evidence that vinpocetine improves the quality of life in chronic cerebrovascular patients.
PMID: 17631470 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Unfortunately these papers were published in hugarian journals I do not have access to hence I cannot comment on dosage.
I can say this.....because I read it here
"Vinpocetine is available as an individual supplement and in combination products. Typical doses for supplement use are 5 to 10 milligrams daily with food. Some take up to 20 milligrams daily. Higher doses are not advised.........
Absorption of vinpocetine is significantly higher when given with food and can be up to about 60% of an ingested dose. On an empty stomach, absorption of an ingested dose can be as low as 7%. Peak plasma levels are obtained one to one and a half hours after ingestion. Extensive metabolism to the inactive apovincaminic acid occurs in the liver. Only small amounts of unmetabolized vinpocetine are excreted in the urine, the major route of excretion of apovincaminic acid. Most of a dose is excreted within 24 hours as this metabolite. The elimination half-life of vinpocetine following ingestion is one to two hours."
so taking 5 mg 3 x per day or with your 3 main meals should keep you topped up.
brotherx 04 Sep 2007
thanks for the update!
Do you personal experiences with it?
I have read mixed results - so I was unsure until now whether to try it or not!
Cheers
Alex
scottl 04 Sep 2007
I wonder why the upper limit? Right above what you posted it states:
OVERDOSAGE
There are no reports of vinpocetine overdosage.
Again this board is a very mixed bag and what might be appropriate for a 20 year old, 40 year old, 60 year old asymptomatic and 60 year old with mild memory problems may not be the same.
Shepard 04 Sep 2007
I wonder why the upper limit?
If I remember correctly this was due to diminishing returns past 30-40mgs. I want to think a reduction in effectiveness was noted at some higher dosage, but I don't remember the specifics or the condition of the people in the study.
Although, I've never seen any reason to set a limit at 20mgs.
krillin 04 Sep 2007
Hi Zoo,
I wonder why the upper limit? Right above what you posted it states:
OVERDOSAGE
There are no reports of vinpocetine overdosage.
Again this board is a very mixed bag and what might be appropriate for a 20 year old, 40 year old, 60 year old asymptomatic and 60 year old with mild memory problems may not be the same.
It gave me tension headaches when I tried it years ago at 2 x 5 mg, probably from excessive cholinergic activity.
Mind 04 Sep 2007
brotherx 04 Sep 2007
do you experience any side effects?
How can you describe the nootropic effects that you experience?
Cheers
Alex
Shepard 04 Sep 2007
How can you describe the nootropic effects that you experience?
I've never noticed any side effects. Main effect for me would be a greater sense of awareness (visual acuity and hearing seem to be improved for a little while).
brotherx 04 Sep 2007
How can you describe the nootropic effects that you experience?
I've never noticed any side effects. Main effect for me would be a greater sense of awareness (visual acuity and hearing seem to be improved for a little while).
Matt 04 Sep 2007
Mind 04 Sep 2007
revnik 04 Sep 2007
10 mg is a high dosage to start out with. Try 5mg.after taking vinpo I experienced dizziness and I felt really uneasy about 30-60minutes after taking... and this was only with 10mg!
I've experienced stumach upset when I first started using it. Problem solves itself after few days...do you experience any side effects?
How can you describe the nootropic effects that you experience?
Nootropic effects:
-higher brain metabolism
-decreases brainfog if any
-higher level of concentration
-somethimes possitive effects on my mood
Doesn't (directly) effect recall and retention in my experience.
zoolander 04 Sep 2007
Personally I have used 20mg vinpocetine + 20mg Vincamine on a daily basis for 3 + months. No negative side effects. I can't really say if the vinpocetine/vincamine is effective because my stack is pretty large
luv2increase 04 Sep 2007
Shepard 04 Sep 2007
Maybe there are responders and no-responders with vinpocetine???
This would be a reasonable conclusion since most of vinpocetine's acute effects should come from increased cerebral circulation.
Although, I think a low dose of vinpocetine should be a nice bonus to pretty much anyone.
Shepard 04 Sep 2007
Do you think it has an impact on learning (recall and retention)?
It's probably going to depend on the person and his/her lifestyle. It very well might for a lot of people, but I'd look for it to be more of a long-term thing for someone that has a LE-oriented lifestyle.
zoolander 04 Sep 2007
kenj 05 Sep 2007
Still, I take vinpocetine.
sentinel 05 Sep 2007
Zoo: Most studes with vinpoetine (and oter nootropic) use subjects with dementia or mild dementia who more than likely have cerebrovascular problems that contribute to a decrease in cerebral blood flow. This should not be the case in young healthy subjects as blood flow to the brain is a highly regulated process
I think this is the crux with nootropics if not most supplements. If you have a below normal level of something eg transfer of oxygen to brain/dopamine/seratonin etc then taking a noot that supposedly addresses it going to produce a more noticabe effect. If you're in the normal realm then the results are often subtle at best. Just because Deprynel helps people with parkinsons, it doesn't mean it will Joe Bloggs feel stellar, there's less to correct.
I get nothing off Alcar, Vin (5 thru to 45mg per day AOR), Deprynel, Resveratrol, Aswaghanda, Rhodiola etc that is profoundly noticable. I assume they are ticking away in the background but I often envy the "wow, what a difference" reviews of some members but maybe I should count myself lucky that I didn't need them that much in the first place.
Sentinel
revnik 05 Sep 2007
I think this is the crux with nootropics if not most supplements. If you have a below normal level of something eg transfer of oxygen to brain/dopamine/seratonin etc then taking a noot that supposedly addresses it going to produce a more noticabe effect. If you're in the normal realm then the results are often subtle at best. Just because Deprynel helps people with parkinsons, it doesn't mean it will Joe Bloggs feel stellar, there's less to correct.
I get nothing off Alcar, Vin (5 thru to 45mg per day AOR), Deprynel, Resveratrol, Aswaghanda, Rhodiola etc that is profoundly noticable.
I agree mostly but it's hard to believe that you don't notice any effects from noots such as Deprenyl. Your natural dopamine-levels might be high but DEP surely pushes them to an even higher level, or am I totaly wrong on this? I believe DEP increases dopamine-levels even if they aren't out of balance (to low)...
sentinel 05 Sep 2007
revnik 05 Sep 2007
synaesthetic 05 Sep 2007
revnik 05 Sep 2007
Vinpo is very combinable with other noots in my experience.
revnik 05 Sep 2007
Yes that's it. I'm too sporty [thumb]
Stop going off topic, this topic isn't about you [tung] Nah we can all learn an important lesson here: sports are good for you
Vinpo's just a cheap ripoff for the lazy ones among us.
brotherx 05 Sep 2007
As I will start to put Hydergine to my regime - starting next week.
Cheers
Alex
Yeah well vinpo is great but I guess when you do (enough) sports you won't be noticing any additional effects because of good blood-circulation due to good physical condition in general.
revnik 05 Sep 2007
Personaly I wouldn't suggest it , hydergine is mutch harder on the stomach, many users experience nausea. It probably also has more interactians in combination with other noots and might be bit unpredictable in that sense.
Hydergine is a farmaceutical and in general more expensive, if you're just looking for the increased blood flow I would stick with the vinpo. If you do start of with hydergine start of slow. And the sports thing isn't an absolute criterium so to speak (Everything's Relative )
brotherx 06 Sep 2007
Price is not that much of a problem if effectivity and efficiency are alright.
I assume that I am not looking only for increased blood flow - it shouldn't be a problem as a do a lot of sports.
I am looking for and improvement in recall and retention + an increase in spoken verbal skills.
And to get rid of the brain fog I sometime get.
(My background:I work as a consultant - and doing a part time study at the same time)
I am just about to find my right stack and I consider Hydergine as a good try (for the rest of my stack). "Nootropi" posted the following sentence:
"It is very important they Hydergine come in FAS form; that way bioavailablity is maximized. FAS stands for "Facilitated Absorption System;" this form is clearly superior as it is time released."
So I've ordered Hydergine FAS as I have seen less mix results with it.
Cheers - and best regards from Germany
Alex
Hydergine does lots more than soli increasing blood circulation, lots of research on this.
Personaly I wouldn't suggest it , hydergine is mutch harder on the stomach, many users experience nausea. It probably also has more interactians in combination with other noots and might be bit unpredictable in that sense.
Hydergine is a farmaceutical and in general more expensive, if you're just looking for the increased blood flow I would stick with the vinpo. If you do start of with hydergine start of slow. And the sports thing isn't an absolute criterium so to speak (Everything's Relative )
revnik 06 Sep 2007
sounds great I know the FAS form, it should be less hard on the stomach than the usuall one but -if I may- the liquid form is even beter when it comes to absorption etc.
Big downside of hydergine FAS is that it only comes in 4.5mg dosages, which is a huge dosage to start of with. Feel free to experiment...
Other advantages of the liquid form include that you can dose it up to 0.25mg precisely, back here in Belgium it's free of prescript so if you live near the border...
Anywayz going off topic big time once again so I'll keep it at that, good luck!