LONGECITY

As much as I am informed sceletium (more precisely active alkaloid mesembrine) has been scientifically confirmed to posess serotonin reuptake activity and to be a selective phospodiesterase-4 inhibitor. However there are claims it also taps into dopaminergic and cholinergic pathways, but for these two I haven't found any confirmation, so those claims might just as well be "guesses".
I've been reading about user experiences of its similarity to a low dose MDMA which led me to compare mesembrine's molecular structure to that of MDMA's. Overall they aren't certainly identical, but there are some interesting similarities. Sceletium isn't hallucinogenic, whereas MDMA is.
Anyone more informed on sceletium's alkaloid pharmacology? What effects did it have for you, how would you compare them to other psychoactive compounds?
Edited by ikaros, 02 July 2008 - 04:53 PM.

It is way more euphoric than simple SSRI action would suggest.

As much as I am informed sceletium (more precisely active alkaloid mesembrine) has been scientifically confirmed to posess serotonin reuptake activity and to be a selective phospodiesterase-4 inhibitor.

Source please. I googled whether mesembrine is a pde4 inhibitor myself some time ago and haven't found anything worth reading. There is an article on wikipedia, but they can't cite sources either( only some dead link to some non existent study).

Does anyone know if concommitant use with a ssri would actually be dangerous? Lots of sites warn about it, but I think the concern is theoretical.

It is way more euphoric than simple SSRI action would suggest.

Based on its structure alone, the methoxy's would lend towards a more hallucinogenic effect.

As much as I am informed sceletium (more precisely active alkaloid mesembrine) has been scientifically confirmed to posess serotonin reuptake activity and to be a selective phospodiesterase-4 inhibitor.

Source please. I googled whether mesembrine is a pde4 inhibitor myself some time ago and haven't found anything worth reading. There is an article on wikipedia, but they can't cite sources either( only some dead link to some non existent study).

The article's link is yes dead. Although I've come across a discussion on another forum when apparently the study was still available. The logic behind PDE4 inhibition was that it is structurally very similar to rolipram (potent PDE4 inhibitor, antidepressant, antipsychotic, neuroprotectant, LTP enhancer) and when several minor chemical modifications were made to mesembrine the compound showed increased selectivity for PDE4.
FWIW PDE4 inhibiton would certainly elucidate some aspects of sceletium's effects.

Does anyone know if concommitant use with a ssri would actually be dangerous? Lots of sites warn about it, but I think the concern is theoretical.

Combining two SSRIs is indeed a risky move. Although some more "innovative" psychiatrists are already practicing this.

No clue about the pharmacology really... It´s very interesting. Could it be a serotonin agonist / reuptake inhibitor-combo in its mechanism?
I was on rhodiola for a while and noticed immediate synergistic effects when starting sertralin. Perhaps sceltium has a similar mechanism (to that of the rhodiola / sertralin combo):
One way of enhancing transmission fast (modulating receptor sensitivity, being an agonist or both) and another to inhibit serotonin reuptake, boosting the effects even more.

sceletium effects for me: Slightly sedated, calm and content, positive, a bit dizzy, wanting to have a comfortable time or just talking to people. Just relaxing but very pleasurable.

It´s similar to the rhodiola / SSRI but gives a bigger body load, whereas sertralin creates more body agitation (wanting to do many things. sort of a motivational enhancer). rhodiola / sertralin combo is not as sedating as sceletium alone. It feels more like normal enthusiastic happiness about everything that is and used to feel good. (not on it any longer though, but effects are still around).

So for me sceletium is more of a bob marley-sertralin.

Tried it. Felt like nothing special. Then again I recently went off fluoxetine, which might mean I still have downregulated serotonin receptor sensitivity.
Edited by ikaros, 13 July 2008 - 08:06 AM.

I am on 200mg Sertraline daily and I took Kanna in doses as high as 350mg and nothing happened. I even combine it with 5mg-10mg deprenyl daily. I do not advise to try this combo, but I seem to be pretty resistent to everything working on my serotonin pathways.
And by the way, I felt almost no effects from Kanna. Neither anxiolytic effects nor any dream-like states as cited on wikipedia.

This is a quality thread.
I'd like to point out that only FERMENTED kanna will have the mesembrine content. I took the extract (not fermented) and the fermented, guess what? Big difference. Also, this is a really really strong serotonin reuptake inhibitor with a realtively short half life (doesn't sound too good). I havent seen pharms with this potency even. I took mesembrine for about a month alone. Super for mood and anxiety/depression. Just make sure you taper off slowley because you will feel really shitty after you don't maintain the potent sert re-inhibition.

i havent seen "fermneted" kanna being sold anywhere. just kanna powder or extracts of various potency. where did you get your fermented one ??

A well known auction site with the search keyword: "fermented kanna."
Edited by redan, 04 March 2013 - 02:32 AM.

Have any of you taken this with Forskolin? I would imagine it would make a rather strong CILTEP stack.

Have any of you taken this with Forskolin? I would imagine it would make a rather strong CILTEP stack.

Yes, it would be with the mood benfits. But, I'm afraid it would afect dopamine too much with all the SERT inhibition.

i tried it before and it wasnt fermented and i got a potent "high" in sense, i felt really sleepy and relaxed and just went to bed. i dunno if thats whats suppose to do and how much of it was relation to serotonin but thats all i remember. really getting sleepy and a bit dizzy.
Edited by spermidine, 05 March 2013 - 02:08 AM.

Kanna raises my mood, a subtle way if I am already feeling good, but much more noticeable if I am not. Haven't ever noticed any comedown effects from it, but I have done too much, +500 mg sublingual gets a little too speedy. I enjoy mixing it with Mucuna pruriens and other dopaminergics such as Catuaba & Muira puama. Kanna would probably go well with any stimulant probably, even 4 grams of Rhodiola with 500 mg kanna did not cause adverse reactions!

Do you guys smoke it? for therepeutic purposes do you think smoking 50 mg is alright? I've seen people taking various doses, from 50mg-250 mg, I have the idea that this is one of those "more is not better" substances, and am hoping I can get a therepeutic benefit from low doses [anxiogenic, antidepressant, relaxing, helping with sleep, mood, focus, whatever i can get really]

I get no effect until I digest 3g+. 5g is good, but takes a terrible toll on the stomach.

You guys must be getting kanna with low mesembrine count or just low quality.

That could be the case. Do you recommend a good source?

That could be the case. Do you recommend a good source?

I got my kanna from "moodandmind." You can try different sellers.

Ok cool. This will be my third different seller for Kanna. Willing to give it one more try.

This is a quality thread.
I'd like to point out that only FERMENTED kanna will have the mesembrine content. I took the extract (not fermented) and the fermented, guess what? Big difference. Also, this is a really really strong serotonin reuptake inhibitor with a realtively short half life (doesn't sound too good). I havent seen pharms with this potency even. I took mesembrine for about a month alone. Super for mood and anxiety/depression. Just make sure you taper off slowley because you will feel really shitty after you don't maintain the potent sert re-inhibition.

What's your daily dose? Since it has a short half life, what's the recommended frequency per day? I'm just started my trail run today at 230mg and am gonna take another dose tonight. I got mine from mind and mood as well.
Edited by KoolK3n, 11 April 2013 - 07:10 PM.

I did 200mg in the morning only. At 1-3PM I'd start feeling the SRI activity weaken. Might want to redose at 2PM with your lunch. Should feel the effects immediately.

Alright thanks.

I've*
Trial*

I did 200mg in the morning only. At 1-3PM I'd start feeling the SRI activity weaken. Might want to redose at 2PM with your lunch. Should feel the effects immediately.

Redan, how'd you find the quality of moodandmind's kanna?
Did you get the regular powder or the 4:1?

I did 200mg in the morning only. At 1-3PM I'd start feeling the SRI activity weaken. Might want to redose at 2PM with your lunch. Should feel the effects immediately.

Redan, how'd you find the quality of moodandmind's kanna?
Did you get the regular powder or the 4:1?

Regular fermented powder. I also did my own fermentation of 4:1 powder with similar results as the fermented powder. Effects are like an immediate mood boost; but, go away after a couple of hours, which kind of sucks.

Interesting. Did you experience any sort of crash?

I did 200mg in the morning only. At 1-3PM I'd start feeling the SRI activity weaken. Might want to redose at 2PM with your lunch. Should feel the effects immediately.

Redan, how'd you find the quality of moodandmind's kanna?
Did you get the regular powder or the 4:1?

Regular fermented powder. I also did my own fermentation of 4:1 powder with similar results as the fermented powder. Effects are like an immediate mood boost; but, go away after a couple of hours, which kind of sucks.

Interesting. Did you experience any sort of crash?

Interesting. Did you experience any sort of crash?

I did 200mg in the morning only. At 1-3PM I'd start feeling the SRI activity weaken. Might want to redose at 2PM with your lunch. Should feel the effects immediately.

Redan, how'd you find the quality of moodandmind's kanna?
Did you get the regular powder or the 4:1?

Regular fermented powder. I also did my own fermentation of 4:1 powder with similar results as the fermented powder. Effects are like an immediate mood boost; but, go away after a couple of hours, which kind of sucks.

Interesting. Did you experience any sort of crash?

Not after immediate dosing. But, after chronic dosing (1 month @ 200-500mg) the crash was really bad. Just a general really crappy feeling. Kanna has very strong global SRI inhibiting properties; immediate cessation is detrimental.