20 replies to this topic

[scottl]

Supplements:

--Upon awakening:
--500 mg taurine, 500 mg calcium ascorbate, 1000 mg time release calcium ascorbate (nature’s life), 500 mg carnosine, chaste berry

--in water: ½ tsp dairy free acidophilus, ½ tsp bifidus (both from metagenics), 1-2 tbsp ground flax seeds (barleans), 1 heaping tsp cocoa, berry extract if not eating berries. May add e.g. chlorella. FOS does not agree with my gut.

Similase digestive enzymes by tyler 2caps/meal

Rest in divided doses with meals (mostly).
--Multi-carotene—jarrow. Using up old TL carotene/lycopine supps so taking 1 each/day

--Tl daily one without iron=B25 + minerals (mineral totals below)
--extra B-25 X 1-2 + folic acid (total 2800 mcg) and 5 mg extra biotin
--AOR methylcobalamin 5 mg..sometimes.

--Pantothene 1000 mg thorne (lipid benefit)
--Benfotiamine 100 mg
--Pyrodoxamine 100 mg

--Calcium ascorbate now brand or magnesium ascorbate (allergy research)
2.5 g/day divided doses (in addition to above)
--1000 IU vit d
--Vit E: 800 IU/day thorne mixed

--Coenzyme Q-10 300 mg Q-max tyler
--R-ALA will be buying geronova in MCT. Finishing up plain R ALA by AOR.
--Grape seed extract 50 mg X 2
--Resveratrol—Longevinex.
--Citrus bioflavonoids 1 cap Twinlab
--Pomegranate Extract 40 mg
--cranberry extract
--NAC 500 mg 2/day
--green tea extract 500 mg extract.
--IC3 (or should it be DIM??)

Minerals:
--Calcium: about 800 mg from supps ascorbate, aspartate,
--Magnesium: lots of nuts or 200-400 mg magnesium glycinate/aspartate
--Manganese 5 mg/day
--Zinc 60 mg/day
--Chromium 400-600 mcg from chromium yeast
--Selenium 400 mcg selenomethionine now selenoscsteine
-- copper 2 mg
--Boron 4 mg
--silica—jarrow biosil

EFAS:
--300 mg GLA (black currant seed oil)/day thorne
--Salmon, sardines or 1.5 g total EPA+DHA thorne
--probably adding some krill oil may decrease fish oil
--Flax oil—1-2 tablespoons grouond flax seeds for fiber

Herbs, etc
--Ginko biloba 60-90 mg 24%
--Nettle leaf 300 mg freeze dried leaf X3
--saw palmetto/pygeum std dose
--hawthorne?
--rhodiola jarrow
--Boswella
--curcumin


Ayurvedic herbs:
--Ashwaganda 1-1.5 g/day. I’ve started taking some or all before bed.
--Triphala 500 mg X 3/day planetary formuas
--bacopa
--chavanprash? I bought at indian grocery. Probably should buy from real ayurvedic place as Adam's heavy metal comments might be a real issue here.

Nootropic/Etc:
---vinpocitine 30 mg/day in divided doses. Will try vincamine
--Choline source: 250 mg CDP choline, 300 mg CDP choline
+/-5 mg deprenyl/week prob need to adjust dose to age appropriate for age.

Joint supps: Glucosamine, ceandrine, MSM, ?hyaluronic acid

DHEA 25 mg X 2/day.
Preg. Will add after getting blood levels drawn. Not sure of dose.

Chinese herbs: various recommended.


Misc: 1 tablespoon extra virgin olive oil (from italy).
sesamin

Edited by scottl, 11 June 2006 - 08:42 PM.

[ajnast4r]

wow i always wondered what you took scott, lol...regimen looks great scott... very clean, very diverse.

whats chaste berry for?

what brand ashwagandha are you using?

chavanprash is great... one of the best supplements around imo (i forgot to list it, i take it too). dont buy cheap indian grocery crap, get the good stuff here: http://www.banyan-bo...aitem=1&mitem=1

i would recomend you get all your ayurvedic herbs/supplements from banyan. they test for heavy metals & microbial contaminations... + all herbs arte HPLC verified for actives.... you should be able to get it bulk or tablets.

i use to like planetary forumlas. i dont anymore... they wouldnt provide me with COA's or the names of their suppliers. they swore up and down their stuff was tested for heavy metals, and then one of their products failed for lead.... so i dont use their stuff anymore... again, banyan is the best... i think i paid 10 bucks for 1/2LB of organic triphala from them.

i wanna say i heard anything over 800mg NAC could be a problem... but dont quote me on that. check out LEF's stance on NAC.


what berry extract are you using? ive been thinking about adding one.

krill is a good idea... epa/dha + astaxanthin.

[syr_]

i wanna say i heard anything over 800mg NAC could be a problem... but dont quote me on that. check out LEF's stance on NAC.

Where? I read 1800mg.

BTW Scott regimen looks great
I'm interested to know his washout periods, expecially with herbs... I dont take as many but I find that even rhodiola would need a week or two of break after a month or such.

[syr_]

Two comments, Scott:

1: 60mg zinc. Wow thats pretty high. Do you use methionine, right?

2: folic acid (total 2800 mcg). Isnt that too much? Expecially compared to your B12 intake, that is you DONT take 5mg of methylcobalamin every day. I thought 800mg are adequate for males.

PS: 300mg Coq10 is great, but not great for the pocket

[scottl]

wow i always wondered what you took scott, lol...regimen looks great scott... very clean, very diverse.

whats chaste berry for?

what brand ashwagandha are you using?

chavanprash is great... one of the best supplements around imo (i forgot to list it, i take it too). dont buy cheap indian grocery crap, get the good stuff here: http://www.banyan-bo...aitem=1&mitem=1

i would recomend you get all your ayurvedic herbs/supplements from banyan. they test for heavy metals & microbial contaminations... + all herbs arte HPLC verified for actives.... you should be able to get it bulk or tablets.

i use to like planetary forumlas. i dont anymore... they wouldnt provide me with COA's or the names of their suppliers. they swore up and down their stuff was tested for heavy metals, and then one of their products failed for lead.... so i dont use their stuff anymore... again, banyan is the best... i think i paid 10 bucks for 1/2LB of organic triphala from them.

i wanna say i heard anything over 800mg NAC could be a problem... but dont quote me on that. check out LEF's stance on NAC.


what berry extract are you using? ive been thinking about adding one.

krill is a good idea... epa/dha + astaxanthin.

Banyan looks like a good idea. I had been getting my ayurvedia herbs from ayush herbs in the seatttle area.

I"ve been using some Jarrow berry extract. Not great, but they are reformulating. I'll see. Plus it is summer so fresh...yumm

[scottl]

i wanna say i heard anything over 800mg NAC could be a problem... but dont quote me on that. check out LEF's stance on NAC.

Where? I read 1800mg.

BTW Scott regimen looks great
I'm interested to know his washout periods, expecially with herbs... I dont take as many but I find that even rhodiola would need a week or two of break after a month or such.

WHy would the herbs need a break?

[scottl]

Two comments, Scott:

1: 60mg zinc. Wow thats pretty high. Do you use methionine, right?

2: folic acid (total 2800 mcg). Isnt that too much? Expecially compared to your B12 intake, that is you DONT take 5mg of methylcobalamin every day. I thought 800mg are adequate for males.

PS: 300mg Coq10 is great, but not great for the pocket

1. 60 mg zinc probably isn't too much, but I do probably need to add more copper.

I don't take any methionine, but get plenty in meat.

2. 800 mcg may be enough, but given A. homocysteine B. a b-25 is like 11 times RDA and 800 mcg is nowhere near that... and C. a number of people think 5 MG may be the optimal amount.

Too much?? what bad things do you expect to happen?

[syr_]

Why would the herbs need a break?

Some herbs need a break after a month or more, because it reduces effectiveness (it depends on the herbs). For istance, I dont notice a marked benefit in taking rhodiola as I did in the first 3-4 weeks. Now, I'm considering to take a couple weeks off or to skip weekends for istance.

zinc methionine: they say it doesnt counter copper absorbtion. Correct me if i'm wrong, but what I know is:
-Over 2mg of copper is toxic (no matter how much zinc do u take?)
-30mg is the ideal dose of zinc for adhult men
-the ratio between copper and zinc should be 1:15. In good multis you find either 1mg and 15mg or 2 and 30 (i prefer the first - that is the ratio of AOR essential mix i take). I add 15mg of additional zinc methionine, totalling 30. I dont feel I need more.

folate: at high doses it can reduce absorbtion of B12. I just read an article on folic acid at 5mg to cause cancer regression (à la vit A but without sides). I wonder how should be the ratio folate:b12.

I can try to find the sources but I feel lazy today :D

[scottl]

1. "folate: at high doses it can reduce absorbtion of B12."

??? Are you sure you have this correct.

Even if so, I take extra B-12 and eat meat.

2. -Over 2mg of copper is toxic??? According to who?

3. 30mg is the ideal dose of zinc for adhult men..well that is not a bad dose kinda a decent multivit/min dose. LIke many things it depends and people's needs are not always the same.

4. You are correct about the zn/copper ratio and I need to fix that.

5. Because you don't notice a benefit anymore does not mean it was not working any more.

The only herbs I would not take constantly are ones that simulate the immune system. If you have any evidence that other herbs need a break, please post or direct me to it.

[syr_]

1. "folate: at high doses it can reduce absorbtion of B12."

??? Are you sure you have this correct.

Even if so, I take extra B-12 and eat meat.

2. -Over 2mg of copper is toxic???  According to who?

3. 30mg is the ideal dose of zinc for adhult men..well that is not a bad dose kinda a decent multivit/min dose.  LIke many things it depends and people's needs are not always the same.

4.  You are correct  about the zn/copper ratio and I need to fix that.

5. Because you don't notice a benefit anymore does not mean it was not working any more. 

The only herbs I would not take constantly are ones that simulate the immune system.  If you have any evidence that other herbs need a break, please post or direct me to it.

I needed some time to gather up my references.

1. Yes, I am.
http://ods.od.nih.go...eets/folate.asp
What i'm not sure is about the upper dose. I think that supplementing with enough B12 (which i think is 1mg methyl form) can allow us to go beyond the UL, which would be needed for the anti-cancer properties.
"In adults, supplemental folic acid should not exceed the UL to prevent folic acid from triggering symptoms of vitamin B12 deficiency (1)"

2. Hmm maybe i was too conservative. I think over 2mg of copper should not be taken anyway but the toxic level is higher probably. 6mg is the UL (2)
From another source: "As little as 10 mg of copper can have a toxic effect"

3-4: about zinc:
http://ods.od.nih.go...ts/cc/zinc.html

5: I think a couple weeks off rhodiola would be beneficial to not let your body adapt and become lazy. I think this apply to all adaptogens, but I lack reference here.

References:
(1) Institute of Medicine. Food and Nutrition Board. Dietary Reference Intakes: Thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, vitamin B6, folate, vitamin B12, pantothenic acid, biotin, and choline. National Academy Press. Washington, DC, 1998.

(2) http://www.ncbi.nlm....7&dopt=Abstract

[syr_]

I take about 300 mg. of zinc everyday (for a condition I have) and do supplement more than 2 mg. of copper everyday in supplement form.

Copper is not toxic over 2 mg. per day but it is difficult to supplement in high doses. My max is 12 mg. per day. Anything higher than that I can feel nauseated throughout the day. I think per dose I can only handle about 6 mg. otherwise I feel nauseated. (I try to take either 2 mg. or 4 mg. with each meal.)

Ananda Prasad, MD, a zinc expert, says that taking more than 60 mg. of zinc per day will induce a copper deficiency. I do think this is a good range probably. I may have also read about 80 mg. per doing that too. So about 60 or 80 mg. of zinc every day and you should be adding some extra copper some how.

I had to question that comment about high folic acid blocking the absorption of b12. I think that is incorrect. I do know that in the US folic acid is limited to 800 mcg. because anything higher than that can mask a possible b12 deficiency. (I believe in Canada they do sell higher doses of folic acid, but I could be wrong about that.)

http://vm.cfsan.fda....s/wh-folic.html
Because the effects of high intakes of folic acid are not well known, but do include complicating the diagnosis of vitamin B12 deficiency, care should be taken to keep total folate consumption under 1 mg per day, except under the supervision of a physician.

The effects of folic acid at levels between 1 and 5 mg are not well known, but include complicating the diagnosis of vitamin B12 deficiency.

I think to remember the 60mg figure. In one recommendation was suggested to take additional copper in 1:15 ratio if someone is taking high doses of zinc. I think 60mg was the UL for adhult athletes. IIRC the UL of zinc supplementation without copper intake is 30mg. Can you reference dr. Ananda Prasad?

About folate I think you are right, thanks for pointing this out. Knowing you can rule out a b12 deficiency (in case of meat-rich diet and/or methyl-b12 supplementation), which would be the ideal folic acid dosage?
I take 1200mg because 800 is in my multi and 400 in the B-50 that I add to it (thanks to AOR low B levels in multis ). I dont think is too much. Also the studies posted about cancer are very very interesting about the benefits of high folate supplementation.

[syr_]

I wonder which is the ideal level of zinc supplementation for an adhult male. I have read different recommendations (between 30 and 60mg), besides the copper ratio issue.

[kenj]

Lots of zinc talk lately. [thumb]
I'd say for this (important) supplement especially it really depends on the individual but I would rather take a little too much than too little in this regard. I usually take less than 60mg and I'm not treating any disorders (other than aging).

ScottL, - I experienced increased hair shedding when on a "high" dose B5 (500mg and pantethine 300-600mg) a few months ago, - don't know if you've heard of this before. I did supplement with otherwise balanced B doses (including biotin).
I think I rocked my DHT good. [lol]

[syr_]

Lots of zinc talk lately. [thumb] 
I'd say for this (important) supplement especially it really depends on the individual but I would rather take a little too much than too little in this regard. I usually take less than 60mg and I'm not treating any disorders (other than aging).

IMHO Zinc is the most important mineral for men.

I take 15mg of zinc gluconate + 15 mg zinc monomethionine (optizinc, which is supposed to not deplete copper) and there are 1.5mg of copper in my multi.
I'm not treating any deficiency or disease. Among other things, at this level of zinc supplementation I have had improvements in skin outbreaks. Since optizinc is expensive I'm not planning to take a higher dosage unless there are real benefits.

hmm

Edited by syr_, 25 June 2006 - 11:00 PM.

[Shepard]

I don't think we can make the broad statement that any particular mineral is the most important for everyone. I may be kind of splitting hairs here, though.

[scottl]

ScottL, - I experienced increased hair shedding when on a "high" dose B5 (500mg and pantethine 300-600mg) a few months ago, - don't know if you've heard of this before. I did supplement with otherwise balanced B doses (including biotin).
I think I rocked my DHT good. [lol]

You've lost me..possibly because I know little about AAS which is perhaps the context that people take that much B5??

[Shepard]

I've heard of hair loss with high dose B5, but it was pure pantothenic acid, in the 10 gram range.

[krillin]

About folate I think you are right, thanks for pointing this out. Knowing you can rule out a b12 deficiency (in case of meat-rich diet and/or methyl-b12 supplementation), which would be the ideal folic acid dosage?
I take 1200mg because 800 is in my multi and 400 in the B-50 that I add to it (thanks to AOR low B levels in multis ). I dont think is too much. Also the studies posted about cancer are very very interesting about the benefits of high folate supplementation.

Here's a data point for high-dose folic acid effects. I take 4800 mcg folic acid and 1 mg methylcobalamin. I had a B12 test and maxed it out: the result came back as > 2000 pg/ml.

[brokenportal]

http://www.algaecal....tivitamins.html

They call this the kitchen sink too. Somebody told me its great. Is it?

Edited by brokenportal, 07 March 2012 - 09:00 PM.