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Longevinex's unifying theory of aging


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#1 curious_sle

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 04:49 PM


As discussed (with plenty spelling, grammar, syntax errors... nevermind their conclusions) in http://www.longevine...Resveratrol.pdf

Anyone care to comment?

(i kinda agree with a small part of their conclusions as they seem reasonable but then again... :-) )
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#2 stephen_b

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 09:50 PM

I enjoyed reading the paper. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I would like to see more evidence that the difference in life spans between men and women can be explained by the difference in the intake/outtake of iron in their bodies.

Also, I see that there is some difference of opinion on whether quercetin inhibits resveratrol.

Stephen
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#3 shifter

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 10:05 PM

I always thought the difference between average lifespans was moe to do with males having a higher infant mortality rate, and more likely to be involved in much greater risktaking activities (eg more fatal car accident from speeding etc).
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#4 gavrilov

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 10:13 PM

Yes, this is a good concern:

"I would like to see more evidence that the difference in life spans between men and women can be explained by the difference in the intake/outtake of iron in their bodies."

because males die more often than females at any age even before puberty, and even before birth!

We discussed this topic in our book:

Biology of Life Span: A Quantitative Approach

Hope it helps,
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#5 niner

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 10:17 PM

Wow. It has many of the hallmarks of quackery- the analogies between mammalian physiology and plumbing pipes or rusting iron, the typos, the one-size-fits-all theory, the idea that if you could just get rid of the toxins lurking in your body... Yet, some interesting issues if you look past all that. Might iron be an essential mineral with a poor therapeutic index? ie, the difference in dose between prevention of anemia and induction of damage is small? That is not so farfetched. The "key" experiment in which rats fed ad lib were compared to CR and CR + mineral supplementation looking at iron-laden cytoplasmic inclusions in the brain showed that the number of inclusions were increased with mineral supps, but that reduction of minerals in the diet through unsupplemented CR had no effect. Sardi seemed to be extrapolating this to "More is worse, so less will be better" but I didn't see the evidence of that. I think that it is more likely that iron and probably other minerals are bad in excess, but to call this a unified theory of aging seems farfetched, IMHO. I would be in favor of research that might determine exactly what "excess" is.
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#6 boily

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 10:37 PM

Good read!

A few things I noted:

If your of the male gender, maybe it would be very anti aging to give blood regularly, and keep iron levels down.

Green tea is a great idea!

IP6, quercetin and resveratrol(longevinex combines them) would be great supplement to take daily.....

Protect your mitochondria!
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#7 stephen_b

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 11:11 PM

Here are some recent studies examining iron and aging:

Iron and copper toxicity in diseases of aging, particularly atherosclerosis and Alzheimer's disease.Exp Biol Med (Maywood). 2007 Feb;232(2):323-35.

It is equally clear that both iron and copper can contribute to excess production of damaging reactive oxygen species through Fenton chemistry. Here, we examine the evidence that "normal" levels of iron and copper contribute to various diseases of aging.

Iron levels in human retina: sex difference and increase with age. Neuroreport. 2006 Nov 27;17(17):1803-6.

Women had more retinal iron than men at all ages, suggesting that there may be gender-specific influences on iron regulation.

Interesting that women actually had more retinal iron. I don't know about the rest of their bodies ;).

Metals, toxicity and oxidative stress. Curr Med Chem. 2005;12(10):1161-208

Vitamin E and melatonin can prevent the majority of metal-mediated (iron, copper, cadmium) damage both in vitro systems and in metal-loaded animals.

This is interesting too:

However, a very recent epidemiological study has shown that a daily intake of vitamin E of more than 400 IU increases the risk of death and should be avoided. While previous studies have proposed a deleterious pro-oxidant effect of vitamin C (ascorbate) in the presence of iron (or copper), recent results have shown that even in the presence of redox-active iron (or copper) and hydrogen peroxide, ascorbate acts as an antioxidant that prevents lipid peroxidation and does not promote protein oxidation in humans in vitro.

.

Stephen
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#8 resveratrol

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 02:52 PM

Surely there's someone out there who can give this theory the sound thrashing it surely deserves.

My intuition assures me with absolute certainty that their theory is completely bogus, but I simply don't know why.

Edited by resveratrol, 28 February 2007 - 04:26 PM.

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#9 kenj

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 05:41 PM

Resveratrol, I don't know if their "theory" is complete "bogus" (just browsing the paper), but the excess calcium factor, and the nutrients in the new formula does make sense to me, at least for upping general health.

In this regard, I'm thinking there's no need to take standalone calcium, when on a well-rounded supplemental program (vit D, K, magnesium, zinc etc.), -
I do get some calcium in various mixed products, but I'm also increasing my magnesium to several hundreds milligrams/day in addition to taking a magnesium ascorbate form of vitamin C and IP6.
Living in scandinavia we consume alot of calcium from dairy products (especially Finland having a very high ratio of calcium intake to magnesium), also with a very high rate of blood and heart vessel disease and osteoporosis in the world, - despite the (obsolete) claim that lots of calcium is good for the bones!

Also re: calcium, - in the mitochondria the electric fences around outer cell membranes may lose power over time (a "side-effect" of living: air pollution, high-calorie diets, stress etc.), especially if one is NOT taking care of it, - inviting unwanted substances into the cell, such as the excitatory neurotransmitter GLUTAMATE to attack certain receptors, "leaking" calcium into brain cells. Actually calcium can convert xanthine dehydrogenase enzyme to xanthine OXIDASE to produce SUPEROXIDE free radicals, -- ooops!
Further then, the free radical PEROXYNITRITE (produced by too much nitric OXIDE) can damage DNA and proteins, possibly increasing dementia risk (?) in the brain.

Edited by kenj, 28 February 2007 - 05:53 PM.

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#10 lucid

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 12:13 PM

Interesting that women actually had more retinal iron.

Well that would explain the driving [tung]
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#11 resveratrol

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 05:20 AM

Resveratrol, I don't know if their "theory" is complete "bogus" (just browsing the paper), but the excess calcium factor, and the nutrients in the new formula does make sense to me, at least for upping general health.


I'm actually just trying to egg people on by being intentionally provocative.

In fact, I find their theory rather convincing and I'm surprised there isn't a great deal more debate about it on these forums.

Thanks for the helpful post.
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#12 newshadow

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 01:11 AM

there may never be a unified theory of aging. if there were a single cause of aging organsims would need only one substance in order to deal with this one cause of aging. we all know that nature is conservative and yet we have so many endogenous agents which act to slow the advance of aging.

we have seen time and again the phenomena of the double edged sword. iron and calcium are essential and so yes why would they also not be part of ''the problem''.

i have recently joined but i will be contributing much in the future.hmm... i think that first paragraph will be a first draft for the intro of my book. need work but what do you think?

b
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#13 tintinet

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 01:28 AM

Nice idea. You might wish to either enlist the aid of an expert grammarian, or just buy a basic writing style guide, like Strunk and White's The Elements of Style.
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#14 mirian

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 07:03 AM

I agree with that theory of aging (calcium & iron) he even gave reference to a study where the mice or rats were lowered their mineral intake and lived longer.

This would explain why vegetairans live 4 to 7 years longer because minerals from plant sources aren't absorbed nearly as much as meat sources. For example, heme iron from red meat.


Not just men but postmenopausal women, and now that these latest birth control pills are starting to end a women's period. It'll cut their lives short:

Female sex (inherent gain over males due to presumed lower iron levels) of about 5.0 to 8.0 years. [Am J Prev Med 18: 77-82, 2000]

Plus, the following is probably because vegetable sources of iron have much less absorption than animal sources:

Vegetarian, life expectancy increase at age 30 compared to non-vegetarians is about 4.42 to 7.28 years. [Arch Int Med 161:1645-52, 2001]


Sorry for some caps:

CALCIUM: Finland has the highest all-cause mortality risk and highest dairy consumption. Japan has the lowest all-cause mortality risk and lowest dairy consumption. [Int J Cardio 33:19,1991] More than 800mg of calcium (800mg is US average from food alone) from food or supplements may be unnecessary as long as vitamin D levels are normal. [JAMA Nov. 9, 2005] Elevated calcium levels increase the risk of dying from cancer by 58%. [J Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 81: 2149, 1996] A high ratio of calcium over MG blood serum and cerebrospinal fluid is observed in depressed patients. [Neuropsychobiology 39: 63-70, 1999]


IRON: PMSG has no added iron. Ideal iron blood levels are 40 to 100 ug/dl. For every 1mg of dietary iron, the risk of heart disease increases by 5%. [New England J Med 330: 1152, 1994] Elevated iron storage is also associated with high blood sugar levels, which in turn raises blood pressure. [Endocrine Research 29: 299-306, 2003] Excess iron may have a role in the development of diabetes and IP6 may play a role in reversing diabetes. [Diabetic Medicine 21: 798-802, 2004] Extra iron proven to cause diabetes. [JAMA February 11, 2004;291(6):711-7] Heme iron from red meat increases diabetes risk . [Am J Clin Nut Vol. 79, No. 1, 70-75, Jan. 2004] Researchers from Harvard Medical School found those with the highest dietary intake of heme iron found in meat causes a 28% higher risk of diabetes, even after such factors as weight, exercise, and overall diet were accounted for. [June 2006, Diabetes Care] Those who consumed above average iron and a supplement containing iron were about twice as likely to get Parkinson’s as those who consumed below average iron and no supplement containing iron. [Journal of Neurology June 10, 2003; 60:1761-1766] By age 40 males have twice the iron levels of females and experience twice the rate of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and infections. [Clin Cardiol. 1996 Dec;19(12);925-9] Iron control may find its way into the field of anti-aging research. [Biochem Pharmacol 1999;57:1345-49] Researchers wrote that ”despite the evidence, the role of iron in aging and possibilities of pharmacologically targeting iron have remained essentially unexplored.”[Aging Res Rev 2003; 2: 25-37] Men who donated blood at least once a year had an 88% lower risk of heart attacks than non-donors [Am Journal of Epidemiology Sept. 1998]


"TOO MUCH IRON CAN CAUSE CARDIAC ARREST."[MEN'S HEALTH MAGAZINE, MAR, 2007, P. 72]


"GIVE BLOOD, GET HEALTHY. YOUR HEART-ATTACK RISK MAY DROP AS A RESULT OF DECREASED IRON LEVELS."[MENS HEALTH MAGAZINE,MAY 2005, P.76]

AFTER AGE 18, EXCESS IRON ACCUMULATES IN THE BLOOD OF ALL HUMANS AT A RATE OF 1MG PER DAY.[NEW YORK:OXFORD UNIVERSITY PRESS;1994.P.24-29]

BY EXCERCISING, A PERSON ONLY LOSES ABOUT 1MG OF IRON THROUGH SWEAT.[SCAND J CLIN LAB INVEST 1968;21:157-67]

WHILE CONSUMING PLANT FOODS ABSORPTION OF IRON IS ONLY ABOUT 5%. ABSORPTION FROM MEAT SOURCES IS 30% TO 50%.[USDA BULLETIN. 1998 DEC 28]

WHICH COULD HELP EXPLAIN WHY:

"Anti-Aging Guide #18. Donate blood: The life you save may be your own. Many researchers think that we take in too much iron, mostly from eating red meat. Excess iron is thought to create free radicals in the body, speeding aging and raising risk of heart disease, cancer, and Alzheimer's. Until menopause, women are naturally protected from iron overload, but after that the danger of overdose climbs. Preliminary studies suggest you can lower your risk of heart disease by regularly giving blood. Thomas Perls, MD, an associate professor of medicine at Boston University who leads the New England Centenarian Study, donates a unit every 2 months."[Prevention Magazine, Sep. 2006, p.211]
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