37 replies to this topic

[niner]

LEF is way high on grape

This was a pretty interesting article. It discusses some mouse gene expression work by BioMarker Pharmaceuticals looking at low doses (ca. 1.5 mg/kg) of resveratrol, grape extract, and 40% CR.

The gene-expression effects of “low-dose” resveratrol were similar to those seen in calorie-restricted mice: about 55% similarity between the calorie-restricted and resveratrol groups, and 52% similarity between the calorie-restricted and grape extract-supplemented groups.

The overlaps between CR and resveratrol were significantly different than between CR and grape extract, suggesting that grape extract plus resveratrol would be "more like CR" than resveratrol alone. The other noteworthy result was the effect of a relatively low dose of resveratrol; depending on how you do the interspecies scaling, (what's the factor people throw around twixt mice and men, six? whatever, it's a crude rule of thumb) this would work out to way less than 100 mg for an adult human. (like 20 mg)

The study dovetails so nicely with a LEF product that it seems, umm, "too good". It also raises questions as to the blood levels of resveratrol obtained here versus the concentration required to activate sirtuins in vitro. The active metabolite question has not yet been addressed, has it? That is really a gap in our knowledge of resveratrol's action in vivo.

[health_nutty]

Here is my concoction:
1.2g of 50% resveratrol
1.2g of milk thistle
2oz of red wine
250mg of quercetin
200mg of grape seed extract
400mg of green tea extract
150mg of pomegranate extract
250mg of vitamin C
2 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar
1/2 tspn lecithin

I drink it in the morning 20-30 minutes before breakfast

[Synchro]

Hi,

I can see perhaps I can be of assistance in this matter of solubilizing resveratrol, etc.

Just dissolving lecithin in water and stirring in resveratrol will not accomplish what you want. What you want is resveratrol inside of liposomes; by making true liposomes, you can go to transdermal or transrectal absorption efficiently, or make oral absorption work well.

Oral absorption, by the way, is not so easy...there are a lot of variables, and a lot of pitfalls along the way of stomach acid, then small intestine enzymes, etc. It's not an easy or straightforward process to develop truly reliable methods of good absorption for the oral route. One of the things that is problematic is that different GI conditions in different people can really mess up absorption; if you don't have a means of drawing blood and checking that the resveratrol is actually in your blood, using HPLC-MS or GC-MS, you don't really know whether you're absorbing it orally or not. For example, if you have an H. Pylori infection, this could completely change your oral absorption pharmacokinetics - and a lot of people have H. Pylori infections and don't know it. Just one example.

Manufacturers are always looking for patentable ways to fancy up oral supplements and supposedly make them consistently well-absorbed orally, but it's often still a crap-shoot, and you may be throwing away a lot of money on expensive supplement formulations that don't actually work - for you.

However, transdermal or transrectal routes are very consistent and can be very efficient, especially transrectal. Now, here, of course, I get to listen to all sorts of moronic jokes from people who have a complex about their ass-hole, but the simple fact is that if you really want the longevity benefits of substances such as resveratrol and other super supplements, transrectal provides a fabulously efficient and predictable route of absorption, the most consistent route of all the different routes of delivery, except IV, especially if you use liposomes, which absorb very, very quickly, right into the bloodstream, virtually as good as an IV.

By having liposomes containing resveratrol circulating in your blood, it does appear from the literature that you can then cause rejuvenation of the endothelium, resulting in reversing atherosclerosis and heart disease. This is my hope, and I'm sticking to it!!!

To make liposomes efficiently, an ultrasonic chamber works well, including in the home environment. The one I use cost $600 and holds...I dunno, a couple of pints or maybe more, and is quite powerful. We just moved, so I have to dig it out of whatever box it ended up in to find out how big the chamber is.

However, you can get by with a much cheaper one; you just make much smaller batches at a time. The only reason I mention this a bit prematurely (for my own results) is I'm quite confident you'll get much better results using an ultrasound chamber (such as is used for cleaning jewelry) than using a mixer; so rather than running out and spending your cash on a mixer, I would suggest instead you see how good an ultrasound cleaner you can afford.

I'm working out the details right now for resveratrol, after having done a survey of the literature. I believe forming the liposomes from a mixture of lecithin, coconut oil (oddly enough, the mixture of medium chain fatty acids in coconut oil works better than the pure lauric acid components), and deoxycholine, with the resveratrol captured inside very small liposomes, hopefully down below 60 microns, should result in almost complete absorption, transdermally or transrectally, possibly orally, but I repeat that of the three, the first is by far, by far, the most efficient and consistently dependable.

I'll post what I find out in a few days. Since I do have HPLC-MS, I will be able to actually measure absorption in my blood directly...that data will take a few more weeks.

Edited by Synchro, 20 August 2011 - 08:17 PM.

[neogenic]

So a jewelery cleaner is ideal? Can you link a few pieces of equipment...from the cheap (like that jewelry cleaner) to the more expensive (but reasonable for a motivated person) like the $600 device? Also what ratio of the components are ideal? Lecithin, Coconut Oil (MCT), and deoxycholine...the ratio of those components as the liposome mixture...to the ratio of the desired ingredient to be encapsulated (in this case resveratrol).

Thanks!

[neogenic]

Wouldn't phosphatidylcholine work as a good liposome/phytosome?

[zorba990]

I'm curious where you are obtaining deoxycholine and if that and the coconut oil are really necessary. I'm using 2 TBL of lecithin powder in about 3 oz of water with 1200mg Tres. I wait for the power to get saturated and the whole concoction to form a gel before putting it in the jewelry cleaner for 3 minutes. I found adding a bit of alcohol to the mixture to help this. I still take sodium butyrate with it to ward off the potential for the runs -- not sure if that is a sign that it's not all liposomal but the butyrate definitely works.

[RedCairo]

I believe forming the liposomes from a mixture of lecithin, coconut oil (oddly enough, the mixture of medium chain fatty acids in coconut oil works better than the pure lauric acid components), and deoxycholine, with the resveratrol captured inside very small liposomes, hopefully down below 60 microns, should result in almost complete absorption, transdermally or transrectally, possibly orally, but I repeat that of the three, the first is by far, by far, the most efficient and consistently dependable.

I'm curious about the coconut oil (actually I have MCT oil also which is JUST the medium chain, for the most part, pulled from theCO) and
a) why you choose this, and
b) do you feel it gets encapsulated IN the liposomes, or adds to the lecithin encapsulation of something else?

Thanks,
PJ

[Synchro]

Hi RedCairo,

I have abandoned liposomal in favor of nanoparticulation. By creating nanoparticles, many hydrophobic molecules can be absorbed easily and almost instantly orally (or rectally); liposomal preps have their place, especially in intravenous preparations for targeting particular diseases such as cancer, but I get all the effect I need by simply drinking the nanoparticles. Making the nanoparticles is, unfortunately, not easily done - that is, it is easy, but assembling the equipment is expensive and, for me, required a fair amount of machine shop work (I did myself) to make up the fittings, nozzles, etc. You can simply order nanocurcumin from Taiwan (search youtube). Down the road: all sorts of nanoparticles....it's about to be a revolution. worldwide :)

VB, Synchro