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DMAE - not such a good idea?


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#1

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 06:57 AM


Decreased lifespan of quails: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pt=AbstractPlus

Ineffective for increasing levels of acetylcholine in the brain: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pt=AbstractPlus

Another article questioning DMAE's value as a precursor of AcH: http://www.ncbi.nlm...._RVAbstractPlus


Personal note: I've taken it in the past but never really noticed any benefit. Like my idebenone (another loser in my book), these days I'm adding it to my moisturizing lotion (hat tip to Mitkat for the inspiration) just to make myself feel like I didn't completely waste my money.
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#2 krillin

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 05:05 PM

Decreased lifespan of quails: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pt=AbstractPlus

Ineffective for increasing levels of acetylcholine in the brain: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pt=AbstractPlus

Another article questioning DMAE's value as a precursor of AcH: http://www.ncbi.nlm...._RVAbstractPlus

Personal note: I've taken it in the past but never really noticed any benefit. Like my idebenone (another loser in my book), these days I'm adding it to my moisturizing lotion (hat tip to Mitkat for the inspiration) just to make myself feel like I didn't completely waste my money.


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's not good for your skin either.

Br J Dermatol. 2007 Mar;156(3):433-9
The antiwrinkle effect of topical concentrated 2-dimethylaminoethanol involves a vacuolar cytopathology.
Morissette G, Germain L, Marceau F.
Centre de Recherche en Rhumatologie et Immunologie, Centre Hospitalier Universitaire de Quebec, Quebec QC, Canada.

BACKGROUND: The 'cosmeceutical' agent 2-dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE) is a tertiary amine found in high concentration in numerous topical antiwrinkle preparations. OBJECTIVES: We hypothesized that a 337 mmol L(-1) (3%) DMAE reservoir applied to the skin could reproduce the cytopathology induced by other amines by maintaining a millimolar drug concentration within a certain depth of the skin layers, and that vacuolar cell expansion could account for the very rapid effect on the apparent skin fullness. METHODS: Morphological and functional assays were applied to cultured rabbit dermal fibroblasts treated with tertiary amines in vitro. A morphological verification of the vacuolization caused by topical DMAE was also attempted in vivo using the inner skin of the rabbit ear and in vitro using primary cultures of human cutaneous epithelial cells. RESULTS: Fibroblasts responded to DMAE (2.5-10 mmol L(-1)) by massive vacuolization (0.5-4 h; phase contrast observations). Triethanolamine, another chemical frequently used topically, was also active in this respect (10 mmol L(-1)). The vacuolar adenosine triphosphatase inhibitor bafilomycin A1 prevented DMAE- or triethanolamine-induced vacuolization; adding bafilomycin A1 or cell washout slowly reversed the established vacuolization induced by DMAE. Further effects of DMAE in cultured fibroblasts included a moderate cytotoxicity (10 mmol L(-1)) that was abated by bafilomycin A1 cotreatment, a concentration-dependent mitotic arrest (2.5 mmol L(-1)) and transient and mild effects on cell ploidy. The epidermis of the rabbit external ear was significantly thickened and exhibited clear perinuclear swelling indicative of vacuolization in response to 3% DMAE (1 h; paraffin tissue sections). Cultured human cutaneous epithelial cells responded to DMAE by vacuolization (inhibited by bafilomycin A1 cotreatment). CONCLUSIONS: The vacuolar cytopathology induced by concentrated organic amines may be the cellular basis of the antiwrinkle effect of DMAE.

PMID: 17300230

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#3

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 08:38 PM

> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's not good for your skin either.

great, thanks krillin...

Actually, I only have a small bottle of DMAE-H3 (Twinlabs) so that doesn't hurt too bad. Its the idebnone that pains me - $30 worth. Now don't piss me off by posting an abstract indicating that idebenone is not good for my skin either. ;-)

#4 EmbraceUnity

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Posted 30 July 2007 - 03:39 PM

Many people here, including DukeNukem, have listed DMAE among their favorite nootropics and/or supps. I don't know if one could definitively say DMAE is ineffective from just these few studies.

Anyone have different opinions?

#5 revnik

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 11:34 PM

Any more opinions on DMAE? I find the info out there on the web/forums etc very contradictional. I know it increases choline-concentration in the brain but what's the use of that when it doesn't metabolized to Acethylcholine anyways?

Also i found out that it accumalates easy, many users report positive effects (higher concentration etc) for the first couple of days/weeks but then they start complaining about upcomming side effects (probably overdose due to accumalation/overdose).

Has anyone got some recommendations on the right dosage? Would 130mg of DMAE (350mg extract) daily be acceptable and is it adviseable to split it up in two (2 x 65mg / day)?

#6 Alec

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 07:10 PM

Even more bad news. It's in my multivitamin. This one I think I'm going to send to the company. Increased fibroblast apoptosis = damage to the extracellular matrix.

Dimethylaminoethanol affects the viability of human cultured fibroblasts.
Gragnani A, Giannoccaro FB, Sobral CS, Moraes AA, França JP, Ferreira AT, Ferreira LM.

Plastic Surgery Division of Federal University of São Paulo, Rua Pedro de Toledo, 781, 4 Andar Fundos, São Paulo, SP, Brazil. alfredogf@ig.com.br

Erratum in:

Aesthetic Plast Surg. 2008 Mar;32(2):406. Moraes, A A F [added]; Ferreira, A T [added].

Abstract
BACKGROUND: In clinical practice, dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE) has been used in the fight against wrinkles and flaccidity in the cervicofacial region. The firming action of DMAE is explained by the fact that its molecule, considered to be a precursor of acetylcholine, alters muscle contraction. However, no experimental studies have confirmed this theory. Because the actual mechanism of DMAE action was not defined and there were no references in the literature regarding its direct action on fibroblasts, this study was performed to evaluate the direct action of DMAE on cultured human fibroblasts.

METHODS: Human fibroblasts obtained from discarded fragments of total skin from patients undergoing plastic or reconstructive surgical procedures performed within the Plastic Surgery Division at the Federal University of São Paulo were used for this study. The explant technique was used. The culture medium was supplemented with different concentrations of DMAE on the fourth cell passage, and the cell proliferation rate, cytosolic calcium levels, and cell cycle were evaluated. Statistical analysis was performed using analysis of variance (ANOVA) followed by a Newman-Keuls test for multiple comparisons.

RESULTS: A decrease in fibroblast proliferation was associated with an increase in DMAE concentration. A longer treatment time with trypsin was required for the groups treated with DMAE in a dose-dependent manner. In the presence of DMAE, cytosolic calcium increased in a dose-dependent manner. Apoptosis also increased in groups treated with DMAE.

CONCLUSION: Dimethylaminoethanol reduced the proliferation of fibroblasts, increased cytosolic calcium, and changed the cell cycle, causing an increase in apoptosis in cultured human fibroblasts.


Edited by Alec, 14 December 2010 - 07:16 PM.

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#7 nito

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 08:03 PM

So everyone's dissing DMAE? I was about to give it a go from iherb, oh well i'll give hypezine A a go instead then!

#8 Thorsten3

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 08:33 PM

So everyone's dissing DMAE? I was about to give it a go from iherb, oh well i'll give hypezine A a go instead then!


Have you found anything yet that works for you? I notice you struggle to get an effect from most things you have tried. I admire your courage to keep trying - if there was a nootropic for that you wouldn't need it :laugh:

#9 nito

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 08:48 PM

So everyone's dissing DMAE? I was about to give it a go from iherb, oh well i'll give hypezine A a go instead then!


Have you found anything yet that works for you? I notice you struggle to get an effect from most things you have tried. I admire your courage to keep trying - if there was a nootropic for that you wouldn't need it :laugh:



Lol yea, 2 years counting, a number of nootropics under the bed and im still on the quest to find that cognitive booster for motivation and learning. I have decided to give excersice a go and learn meditation which could be hard over x-mas period. But in regards to nootropics i just ordered Phosphatidylserine and i'm still looking to order something else before the day ends. 2nd attempt on fish oil, CDP as Alpha seems useless, Curcumin for the first time, lions mane for the 2nd time, don't know which brand as mushroom science seemsed to give no effect. What do you tkae currently?

#10 Thorsten3

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 09:12 PM

So everyone's dissing DMAE? I was about to give it a go from iherb, oh well i'll give hypezine A a go instead then!


Have you found anything yet that works for you? I notice you struggle to get an effect from most things you have tried. I admire your courage to keep trying - if there was a nootropic for that you wouldn't need it :laugh:



Lol yea, 2 years counting, a number of nootropics under the bed and im still on the quest to find that cognitive booster for motivation and learning. I have decided to give excersice a go and learn meditation which could be hard over x-mas period. But in regards to nootropics i just ordered Phosphatidylserine and i'm still looking to order something else before the day ends. 2nd attempt on fish oil, CDP as Alpha seems useless, Curcumin for the first time, lions mane for the 2nd time, don't know which brand as mushroom science seemsed to give no effect. What do you tkae currently?


What did you think of curcumin? It was a weird one. It kind of makes me slightly more anxious for some reason, a mild anti-depressant effect and a cognitive sharpening effect. It fuses horribly with other 5HT based compounds in my case and causes anhedonia if I do this. I ditched it in the end as it interfered too much with my wellbeing. Resveratrol is better in this respect as I don't really notice anything from it.
Currently I take fish oil. Somedays I have some picamilon, other than that nothing at the moment. Might bring resveratrol back, what it was doing though is hard to say.
Thinking of bringing in coq10, ALA, Magnesium Taurate.

What about pharmaceuticals? Have you tried any of those?

Edited by Thorsten, 14 December 2010 - 09:29 PM.


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#11 nito

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 11:29 PM

So everyone's dissing DMAE? I was about to give it a go from iherb, oh well i'll give hypezine A a go instead then!


Have you found anything yet that works for you? I notice you struggle to get an effect from most things you have tried. I admire your courage to keep trying - if there was a nootropic for that you wouldn't need it :laugh:



Lol yea, 2 years counting, a number of nootropics under the bed and im still on the quest to find that cognitive booster for motivation and learning. I have decided to give excersice a go and learn meditation which could be hard over x-mas period. But in regards to nootropics i just ordered Phosphatidylserine and i'm still looking to order something else before the day ends. 2nd attempt on fish oil, CDP as Alpha seems useless, Curcumin for the first time, lions mane for the 2nd time, don't know which brand as mushroom science seemsed to give no effect. What do you tkae currently?


What did you think of curcumin? It was a weird one. It kind of makes me slightly more anxious for some reason, a mild anti-depressant effect and a cognitive sharpening effect. It fuses horribly with other 5HT based compounds in my case and causes anhedonia if I do this. I ditched it in the end as it interfered too much with my wellbeing. Resveratrol is better in this respect as I don't really notice anything from it.
Currently I take fish oil. Somedays I have some picamilon, other than that nothing at the moment. Might bring resveratrol back, what it was doing though is hard to say.
Thinking of bringing in coq10, ALA, Magnesium Taurate.

What about pharmaceuticals? Have you tried any of those?


Nope never tried pharma stuff. GOt prescribed zoloft 50 mg 2 years ago, never took out the medicine. Got another prescription 1 year ago and again never tried it. Something scares me of pharma drugs, read too many side effects from people etc. I have not tried curcumin yet but i welcome the cognitive sharpening effect any-day. Which brand did you try?

When i'm broke i know what i want, when i have money and want to spend like now i'm running out of good ides, how ironic hey!




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