15 replies to this topic

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi everyone,

I think most people here know that there are many companies competing for resveratrol customers.
Some large, some small, but all generally working to make it available to the general public.

I think we can all compete without help from 3rd parties, (I hope this message is clear. )
(I hope we can please stop bashing folks, and work together in some way.)

For now, how would you all like to see the small to medium sized competitors here on this board work together?

thanks

Anthony Loera

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 05 December 2007 - 07:23 PM.

[sUper GeNius]

>For now, how would you all like to see the small to medium sized competitors here on this board work together?

Cutthroat pricing.

[Anthony_Loera]

FuLL meMbeR, on 5-Dec 2007, 02:23 PM, said:

>For now, how would you all like to see the small to medium sized competitors here on this board work together?

Cutthroat pricing.

I guess you couldn't be more honest.
:tung:

but, hmmm... that means we wouldn't be able to work together... right?

A

[maxhealthback]

I think we, as competitors and colleagues, are pretty passionate about resveratrol and our respective products but at the end of the day we are all in the same boat and have much the same objectives. At times the intensity has gone over the top but there is no personal animosity amongst all of us. I am pretty sure of that.

[Anthony_Loera]

maxhealthback, on 5-Dec 2007, 02:53 PM, said:

I think we, as competitors and colleagues, are pretty passionate about resveratrol and our respective products but at the end of the day we are all in the same boat and have much the same objectives. At times the intensity has gone over the top but there is no personal animosity amongst all of us. I am pretty sure of that.

Hi James,

I agree with that sentiment. I was wondering if we could feedback from the forum regarding how competitors may be able to work together to provide something to the group that maybe we could not, if we worked individually. So far, we have one person talking about lowering prices.

But that is difficult, we simply have people counting on us for jobs and growth, so I believe pricing is tough to change without raw materials dropping. What other ideas come to mind? What would you like to see happen? (I am asking the general forum.)

and thanks for the post James,

Anthony

[asnufu]

Anthony_Loera, on 5-Dec 2007, 03:09 PM, said:

maxhealthback, on 5-Dec 2007, 02:53 PM, said:

I think we, as competitors and colleagues, are pretty passionate about resveratrol and our respective products but at the end of the day we are all in the same boat and have much the same objectives. At times the intensity has gone over the top but there is no personal animosity amongst all of us. I am pretty sure of that.

Hi James,

I agree with that sentiment. I was wondering if we could feedback from the forum regarding how competitors may be able to work together to provide something to the group that maybe we could not, if we worked individually. So far, we have one person talking about lowering prices.

But that is difficult, we simply have people counting on us for jobs and growth, so I believe pricing is tough to change without raw materials dropping. What other ideas come to mind? What would you like to see happen? (I am asking the general forum.)

and thanks for the post James,

Anthony

I would like to see products that address the bioavailability issue. I would be willing to pay a premium for products such as chewing gum, transdermal patches, slow release lozenges, or anything equivalent that could be proven to have, or at least strongly suggested, better bioavailability, and did not require me to mix my own dmso/ethanol/lechitin/whatever mix.

[niner]

Anthony_Loera, on 5-Dec 2007, 03:09 PM, said:

maxhealthback, on 5-Dec 2007, 02:53 PM, said:

I think we, as competitors and colleagues, are pretty passionate about resveratrol and our respective products but at the end of the day we are all in the same boat and have much the same objectives. At times the intensity has gone over the top but there is no personal animosity amongst all of us. I am pretty sure of that.

Hi James,

I agree with that sentiment. I was wondering if we could feedback from the forum regarding how competitors may be able to work together to provide something to the group that maybe we could not, if we worked individually. So far, we have one person talking about lowering prices.

But that is difficult, we simply have people counting on us for jobs and growth, so I believe pricing is tough to change without raw materials dropping. What other ideas come to mind? What would you like to see happen? (I am asking the general forum.)

and thanks for the post James,

Anthony

One possibility for vendors working together would be to support the measurement of plasma levels in humans of different bioavailability enhancements.  I imagine most vendors that are developing (or have developed) bioavailability enhancements would consider them to be proprietary and a competitive advantage, but without human testing, I am unlikely to pay extra for such things.  Once a given method of enhancement has been shown to work, I wouldn't insist on human testing from everyone that wants to use the method.  (Although that IS the standard for the provision of generic versions of prescription drugs; you have to prove bioequivalency with a pharmacokinetic study.)  

Other than this bit of possibly wishful thinking, I would like to see transparency and honesty from all vendors.  Tell us exactly what you are selling, and maintain a good quality assurance program.  I'd like to know that the actual batch that I'm purchasing from has been subjected to adequate analysis.

Thanks for asking, Anthony.

[Anthony_Loera]

ok,

These are great ideas.
so far at the top of the list is Bioavailability:

1- Produce products that may have better bioavailability.
2- Produce some Human plasma results behind different forms/methods of taking rsv.
3- A standard for human bioavailability tests to test new products against (I think I a summarizing niner's post properly)
4- Transparency and honesty in vendors.


Some will be difficult, and others may be ok. I personally would like #2, and #3 to be something we can talk about and maybe pitch into. I still consider RevGenetics to be small, but maybe this can be something we can consider with Relentless, Biotivia, and possibly MegaResveratrol, and a couple others.

Not sure at this moment, but I would like to think we could agree on working together for a few things like this before the sleeping giant awakes in 2012 with patented drugs.

Any more considerations or Ideas that may help some of the competitors work together?

Thanks
Anthony

[niner]

Anthony_Loera, on 5-Dec 2007, 04:46 PM, said:

Not sure at this moment, but I would like to think we could agree on working together for a few things like this before the sleeping giant awakes in 2012 with patented drugs.

Could be a lot of money to be made between now and 2012...  There might be other sleeping giants, too.- Jarrow, Now, etc.

Best of luck to us all.  (Vendors and users alike, since we could all benefit here)  Thanks, Anthony.

[drmz]

Anthony_Loera, on 5-Dec 2007, 02:20 PM, said:

Hi everyone,

I think most people here know that there are many companies competing for resveratrol customers.
Some large, some small, but all generally working to make it available to the general public.

I think we can all compete without help from 3rd parties, (I hope this message is clear. )
(I hope we can please stop bashing folks, and work together in some way.)

For now, how would you all like to see the small to medium sized competitors here on this board work together?

thanks

Anthony Loera

But why do you seem to compete on imminst and other forums ? I know if i would sell bicycles it's a very smart thing to search a bicicyle forum and start spitting out info about my product(s).But i thought that the purpose of a forum is to discuss substances, not turning parts of a forum in to big advertisement (generating google hits, resulting in corporate branding and so on )
You can say ah well i want to add info to the board, but this info is always biased and never objective.Maybe the directors/admins of the board see it different, it's just my opninion.

[Brainbox]

drmz, on 6-Dec 2007, 08:05 AM, said:

Anthony_Loera, on 5-Dec 2007, 02:20 PM, said:

Hi everyone,

I think most people here know that there are many companies competing for resveratrol customers.
Some large, some small, but all generally working to make it available to the general public.

I think we can all compete without help from 3rd parties, (I hope this message is clear. )
(I hope we can please stop bashing folks, and work together in some way.)

For now, how would you all like to see the small to medium sized competitors here on this board work together?

thanks

Anthony Loera

But why do you seem to compete on imminst and other forums ? I know if i would sell bicycles it's a very smart thing to search a bicicyle forum and start spitting out info about my product(s).But i thought that the purpose of a forum is to discuss substances, not turning parts of a forum in to big advertisement (generating google hits, resulting in corporate branding and so on )
You can say ah well i want to add info to the board, but this info is always biased and never objective.Maybe the directors/admins of the board see it different, it's just my opninion.

I agree with you. However, it is also up to the members to counteract biased opinions with more objective information in general. Also generally enthusiastic members do create biased information, so the suppliers are not on their own in this.

Btw., we are working on better posting guidelines and eventually a change in forum structure to accompany these guidelines.

Edited by brainbox, 06 December 2007 - 10:28 AM.

[Anthony_Loera]

drmz, on 6-Dec 2007, 02:05 AM, said:

But why do you seem to compete on imminst and other forums ? I know if i would sell bicycles it's a very smart thing to search a bicicyle forum and start spitting out info about my product(s).But i thought that the purpose of a forum is to discuss substances, not turning parts of a forum in to big advertisement (generating google hits, resulting in corporate branding and so on )
You can say ah well i want to add info to the board, but this info is always biased and never objective.Maybe the directors/admins of the board see it different, it's just my opinion.

We know that some people in the forums have questions about different products. We also know that answer to the questions that are answered in this forum today, may be very difficult to find in 3 months or 6 months. So I continue to comeback and answer things.

The presence of competitors in a forum is actually good for the consumers and folks wanting questions answered.

A forum allows Q&A at a much greater degree than one-way ads such as radio and TV, you can actually ask questions and generally get responses from most folks here.

I don't know about you, but personally If I had some toy competitors available in a forum, when searching for answers to my 'toy' questions for my son, I think it would have made a big difference in my opinion regarding what I would get him for Christmas. So far, I am getting him a wooden toy train set, as I am bothered about the recalls.

Again, this is my opinion, and I think having competitors in a forum is more helpful, than not having them and relying strictly on advertising.


Having said that,
I will look into the 'human plasma testing', and see if we can agree with others what kind of standard we can agree on.


thanks
Anthony Loera

[malbecman]

I agree with asnufu and Niner.  Bioavailability is the primary issue for resveratrol users....  

asnufu, on 5-Dec 2007, 03:27 PM, said:

I would like to see products that address the bioavailability issue. I would be willing to pay a premium for products such as chewing gum, transdermal patches, slow release lozenges, or anything equivalent that could be proven to have, or at least strongly suggested, better bioavailability, and did not require me to mix my own dmso/ethanol/lechitin/whatever mix.

[health_nutty]

malbecman, on 6-Dec 2007, 02:46 PM, said:

I agree with asnufu and Niner.  Bioavailability is the primary issue for resveratrol users....  

asnufu, on 5-Dec 2007, 03:27 PM, said:

I would like to see products that address the bioavailability issue. I would be willing to pay a premium for products such as chewing gum, transdermal patches, slow release lozenges, or anything equivalent that could be proven to have, or at least strongly suggested, better bioavailability, and did not require me to mix my own dmso/ethanol/lechitin/whatever mix.

Yes, I completely agree and I am glad that someone is looking into this!

[drmz]

Anthony_Loera, on 6-Dec 2007, 11:14 AM, said:

drmz, on 6-Dec 2007, 02:05 AM, said:

But why do you seem to compete on imminst and other forums ? I know if i would sell bicycles it's a very smart thing to search a bicicyle forum and start spitting out info about my product(s).But i thought that the purpose of a forum is to discuss substances, not turning parts of a forum in to big advertisement (generating google hits, resulting in corporate branding and so on )
You can say ah well i want to add info to the board, but this info is always biased and never objective.Maybe the directors/admins of the board see it different, it's just my opinion.

We know that some people in the forums have questions about different products. We also know that answer to the questions that are answered in this forum today, may be very difficult to find in 3 months or 6 months. So I continue to comeback and answer things.

The presence of competitors in a forum is actually good for the consumers and folks wanting questions answered.

A forum allows Q&A at a much greater degree than one-way ads such as radio and TV, you can actually ask questions and generally get responses from most folks here.

I don't know about you, but personally If I had some toy competitors available in a forum, when searching for answers to my 'toy' questions for my son, I think it would have made a big difference in my opinion regarding what I would get him for Christmas. So far, I am getting him a wooden toy train set, as I am bothered about the recalls.

Again, this is my opinion, and I think having competitors in a forum is more helpful, than not having them and relying strictly on advertising.


Having said that,
I will look into the 'human plasma testing', and see if we can agree with others what kind of standard we can agree on.


thanks
Anthony Loera

Anthony,

You're right that answering questions for users can be a good thing to do as a res company.
You can also just add a FAQ with those question to your site.There are no 250 different questions about resveratrol.
IMHO an answer from a resveratrol reseller will never be objective because it's normal that he/she protects her business.Would you start spreading the word here when it turns out that resveratrol is just not bioavailable enough to trigger any benefical events in the body or would you stick to giving the answer that there can be an effect but nobody is sure about it, keeping things unclear just because of the business ? Both can be true, but both are different answers.
I must say that you're not my reason for my sceptic attitude toward this.From what I have read,your comments are very honest, but you must agree with me that such an approach is rather uncommon in the marketing world of supplements.

[Anthony_Loera]

drmz, on 7-Dec 2007, 03:57 AM, said:

Anthony,

You're right that answering questions for users can be a good thing to do as a res company.
You can also just add a FAQ with those question to your site.There are no 250 different questions about resveratrol.
IMHO an answer from a resveratrol reseller will never be objective because it's normal that he/she protects her business. Both can be true, but both are different answers.

I do believe an extended FAQ is in order on our website, I have known this for a bit, but somehow has been pushed back. I think it's time to get someone on it.

Quote

Would you start spreading the word here when it turns out that resveratrol is just not bioavailable enough to trigger any benefical events in the body or would you stick to giving the answer that there can be an effect but nobody is sure about it, keeping things unclear just because of the business ?

If it turns out resveratrol capsules at 2, 5 or 7 grams simply does not trigger benefits for human beings, we will stop selling resveratrol capsules. To tell you the truth, the capsule product has always had a probable limited lifespan based on research. Meaning, if the research that is happening somehow stops being positive when tested on humans, the business will likely gather the Resveratrol it has in our warehouses and relabel it for pets, where it appears to have benefits.

I don't have a problem doing this. We didn't start this business to make money at any cost, we started it because I had a personal interest in helping people live just a bit longer. In my case 3 1/2 years working for the largest hospice in the country and having all the data available to me, can make you seriously think about how you can make a difference.

thanks
A