7 replies to this topic

[sUper GeNius]

Can anyone suggest a proper dose per lb?

Thx...

[Ghostrider]

Can anyone suggest a proper dose per lb?

Thx...

Be careful, the ALA might irritate the dog's stomach. Pure speculation, I know dogs can eat stuff that I can't...

[maxwatt]

Can anyone suggest a proper dose per lb?

Thx...

Nobody knows the ideal human dose of lipoic acid, let alone ALCAR, let alone dogs. What does your dog weigh? One could use the scaling factor of dog to human weight ratio to the (4/3) power, to get a scaling factor for dose per kilogram, but this does not account for any possible metabolic differences.

There is a study, in Beagles. If you get the full paper you can find out what doses they used. It's available here for $7: ALA and ALCAR in aged beagles Since access seems to be for one day only, and you may wish to reread the paper, you can copy a screen shot with cntl-SysRq and paste it into a Word document for later rereading.

A beagle may weigh more or less than your dog, but you should be able to scale the dose based on the relative weights. I doubt the exact amount is critical, you need only be in the right order of magnitude.

Acetyl-L-carnitine and alpha-lipoic acid supplementation of aged beagle dogs improves learning in two landmark discrimination tests.Milgram NW, Araujo JA, Hagen TM, Treadwell BV, Ames BN.
University of Toronto, Division of Life Sciences, Scarborough, Ontario, Canada. milgram@psych.utoronto.ca

FASEB J. 2007 Nov;21(13):3756-62. Epub 2007 Jul 10.

Beagle dogs between 7.6 and 8.8 years of age administered a twice daily supplement of alpha-lipoic acid (LA) and acetyl-L-carnitine (ALC) over approximately 2 months made significantly fewer errors in reaching the learning criterion on two landmark discrimination tasks compared to controls administered a methylcellulose placebo. Testing started after a 5 day wash-in. The dogs were also tested on a variable delay version of a previously acquired spatial memory task; results were not significant. The improved performance on the landmark task of dogs supplemented with LA + ALC provides evidence of the effectiveness of this supplement in improving discrimination and allocentric spatial learning. We suggest that long-term maintenance on LA and ALC may be effective in attenuating age-associated cognitive decline by slowing the rate of mitochondrial decay and cellular aging.

PMID: 17622567

[sUper GeNius]

Maxwatt,

Thanks, I did some more research. I have an older PDF from Juvenon that mentions splitting their pill for canine use. The adult dose was two pills a day, so it looks like the dog will get one quarter the human dose. Since then, Juvenon has come out with a product just for dogs, a dog treat. Seems quite expensive, better to simply buying the two main ingredients on one's own.

I think I will be dosing myself as well. Seems like a decent "poor man's" nootropic. I shy away from some of the ingredients in the cognitive formulas. Most are expensive. I don't want to dabble *too* much with my brain chemistry.

[VP.]

Can anyone suggest a proper dose per lb?

Thx...

Nobody knows the ideal human dose of lipoic acid, let alone ALCAR, let alone dogs. What does your dog weigh? One could use the scaling factor of dog to human weight ratio to the (4/3) power, to get a scaling factor for dose per kilogram, but this does not account for any possible metabolic differences.

There is a study, in Beagles. If you get the full paper you can find out what doses they used. It's available here for $7: ALA and ALCAR in aged beagles Since access seems to be for one day only, and you may wish to reread the paper, you can copy a screen shot with cntl-SysRq and paste it into a Word document for later rereading.

A beagle may weigh more or less than your dog, but you should be able to scale the dose based on the relative weights. I doubt the exact amount is critical, you need only be in the right order of magnitude.

Acetyl-L-carnitine and alpha-lipoic acid supplementation of aged beagle dogs improves learning in two landmark discrimination tests.Milgram NW, Araujo JA, Hagen TM, Treadwell BV, Ames BN.
University of Toronto, Division of Life Sciences, Scarborough, Ontario, Canada. milgram@psych.utoronto.ca




FASEB J. 2007 Nov;21(13):3756-62. Epub 2007 Jul 10.

Beagle dogs between 7.6 and 8.8 years of age administered a twice daily supplement of alpha-lipoic acid (LA) and acetyl-L-carnitine (ALC) over approximately 2 months made significantly fewer errors in reaching the learning criterion on two landmark discrimination tasks compared to controls administered a methylcellulose placebo. Testing started after a 5 day wash-in. The dogs were also tested on a variable delay version of a previously acquired spatial memory task; results were not significant. The improved performance on the landmark task of dogs supplemented with LA + ALC provides evidence of the effectiveness of this supplement in improving discrimination and allocentric spatial learning. We suggest that long-term maintenance on LA and ALC may be effective in attenuating age-associated cognitive decline by slowing the rate of mitochondrial decay and cellular aging.

PMID: 17622567

I've found the whole paper here for free: http://www.vigorate....ess/milgram.pdf
Juvenon is selling it here: http://www.vigorate.com/articles.html

[sUper GeNius]

Can anyone suggest a proper dose per lb?

Thx...

Nobody knows the ideal human dose of lipoic acid, let alone ALCAR, let alone dogs. What does your dog weigh? One could use the scaling factor of dog to human weight ratio to the (4/3) power, to get a scaling factor for dose per kilogram, but this does not account for any possible metabolic differences.

There is a study, in Beagles. If you get the full paper you can find out what doses they used. It's available here for $7: ALA and ALCAR in aged beagles Since access seems to be for one day only, and you may wish to reread the paper, you can copy a screen shot with cntl-SysRq and paste it into a Word document for later rereading.

A beagle may weigh more or less than your dog, but you should be able to scale the dose based on the relative weights. I doubt the exact amount is critical, you need only be in the right order of magnitude.

Acetyl-L-carnitine and alpha-lipoic acid supplementation of aged beagle dogs improves learning in two landmark discrimination tests.Milgram NW, Araujo JA, Hagen TM, Treadwell BV, Ames BN.
University of Toronto, Division of Life Sciences, Scarborough, Ontario, Canada. milgram@psych.utoronto.ca




FASEB J. 2007 Nov;21(13):3756-62. Epub 2007 Jul 10.

Beagle dogs between 7.6 and 8.8 years of age administered a twice daily supplement of alpha-lipoic acid (LA) and acetyl-L-carnitine (ALC) over approximately 2 months made significantly fewer errors in reaching the learning criterion on two landmark discrimination tasks compared to controls administered a methylcellulose placebo. Testing started after a 5 day wash-in. The dogs were also tested on a variable delay version of a previously acquired spatial memory task; results were not significant. The improved performance on the landmark task of dogs supplemented with LA + ALC provides evidence of the effectiveness of this supplement in improving discrimination and allocentric spatial learning. We suggest that long-term maintenance on LA and ALC may be effective in attenuating age-associated cognitive decline by slowing the rate of mitochondrial decay and cellular aging.

PMID: 17622567

I've found the whole paper here for free: http://www.vigorate....ess/milgram.pdf
Juvenon is selling it here: http://www.vigorate.com/articles.html

Dose is higher than I thought.

[Cassandra Coleman]

I am very interested in these 2 supplements for my diabetic dog. I have done some reading but still feel a little lost with all of the information. I have read that the dosing is difficult as Carcitine at too high of level become a pro-oxidant. So,I have a couple of questions for anyone who may know and have a minute to answer them.

1. What is the difference between Carnitine Base & Alcar?
2 What are the benefits of these together specifically for dogs and/or diabetes and/or Mast Cell Tumors?
3. At what dose do these become toxic or no longer helpfull to the system?

[Cassandra Coleman]

No one knows anything about this for diabetes??