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40 replies to this topic

#1 Mind

  • Location:Wausau, WI
  • yes

Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:55 PM


Please list any questions you have about the F@H prize here. Technical problems? Confused about the rules? How/when will the payments be sent out? How will the points be counted?

***Special Note: Even though the starting date of the first quarter of competition was April 2nd, you can join at any time and your points will start accumulating from the date you register***
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#2 kclo4x Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:USA

Posted 17 March 2008 - 10:52 PM

Please list any questions you have about the Folding@Home prize here. Technical problems? Confused about the rules? How/when will the payments be sent out? How will the points be counted?


Ive had an account before i knew about the longevity meme team, so i don't really have a team, is it possible to change it?
seems like they would make it easy to log in and change things like that, but i cant figure it out.
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#3 dnamechanic Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Dallas, TX

Posted 17 March 2008 - 11:31 PM

Ive had an account before i knew about the longevity meme team, so i don't really have a team, is it possible to change it?
seems like they would make it easy to log in and change things like that, but i cant figure it out.

Good question, kclo4x.

This question has been discussed fairly often at Stanford's Folding Forums. Also, there is a bit of info at the official Folding@home Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ). Turns out that there is no provision for changing user names or teams while retaining your accumulated points. You can probably imagine the bookkeeping and other difficulties that could arise for the Stanford group if such a practice was allowed.

Probably, the best thing to do is when your current work unit(s) are completed; stop the F@H client and sign up again, this time with team 32461. You may change your user name, or not. You will not lose your previous points, they will remain on record with your previous team and/or username.

As far as the Prize goes, you will not lose any points that might have counted toward it, since points for the prize count only from the beginning April 2, or whenever you register for it (if registering after April 2).

Edited by dnamechanic, 17 March 2008 - 11:35 PM.

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#4 dnamechanic Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Dallas, TX

Posted 18 March 2008 - 12:16 AM

Looks like the public discussion has begun. I copied this from the Stanford Folding Forums.

Note how the moderators took out the references and links :)

Guess this is understandable, they recently implemented a policy against recruiting. Other forums probably aren't policed as closely as this one.

Attached File FoldingForum_Prize.jpg   211.35KB  126 downloads
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#5 maestro949 Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Rhode Island, USA

Posted 18 March 2008 - 01:58 AM

Looks like the public discussion has begun. I copied this from the Stanford Folding Forums.

Note how the moderators took out the references and links :)

Guess this is understandable, they recently implemented a policy against recruiting. Other forums probably aren't policed as closely as this one.

Attached File FoldingForum_Prize.jpg   211.35KB  126 downloads


Let the tournament begin :)
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#6 Live Forever Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 18 March 2008 - 07:19 PM

Looks like the public discussion has begun. I copied this from the Stanford Folding Forums.

Note how the moderators took out the references and links :)

Guess this is understandable, they recently implemented a policy against recruiting. Other forums probably aren't policed as closely as this one.

Attached File FoldingForum_Prize.jpg   211.35KB  126 downloads

Sweet! I had thought originally that those forums would be a good place to promote it. Perhaps if we just mentioned the Immortality Institute or something, people could google for the competition.
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#7 Mind Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Wausau, WI
  • yes

Posted 18 March 2008 - 07:30 PM

Acchhkk! Who posted that in the forums already?! I probably should have put the Development thread in the member area.

Well, at least we are close to the launch. Not too much carnage yet.

Just need to get the splash page up. I should have the text of it done by the end of today.
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#8 dnamechanic Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Dallas, TX

Posted 26 March 2008 - 01:15 AM

When can we start advertising for it?

Of course I cannot speak for Mind, he may wish to formally announce it to many of the sites.

According to reference here, I think we can post announcement messages to selected sites, with links to the Splash page.

It is only about a week until competition begins, The Longevity Meme announced the prize today, also Fight Aging announced it a few days ago.

I posted an announcement message at a couple of places.

Edited by dnamechanic, 26 March 2008 - 02:34 AM.

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#9 Live Forever Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 31 March 2008 - 11:45 PM

Question: Will there be periodic updates to tell who is in the lead (top 5 or 10 or something)? Once a month or bi-monthly or something by those who are tracking it might be interesting.
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#10 dnamechanic Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Dallas, TX

Posted 01 April 2008 - 12:10 AM

Question: Will there be periodic updates to tell who is in the lead (top 5 or 10 or something)? Once a month or bi-monthly or something by those who are tracking it might be interesting.

Yes, that would be good.

A rough guide to the competitors can be found at Extreme Overclocking in the list of the top 20 contributors. A listing of accumulated points would be especially good for contestants that are very close.

Stanford provides folding points updates approximately every 3 hours, this is how EOC gets their data. Maestro949 said he would look into this. Presumably the data for The Longevity Meme could be automatically extracted and formatted by an Excel-like application and then posted here or updated to a F@H Prize page.

A special F@H Prize page with registered competitors current scores (updated just like EOCs) would be very desirable.

Until that happens, I could provide such a chart manually for a while, that is unless someone else wants to give it a try.

Edited by dnamechanic, 01 April 2008 - 12:14 AM.

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#11 Shoe Re: Questions/Discussion

Posted 01 April 2008 - 12:22 AM

I had F@H running for a couple of days some months ago, but my status never got updated and the program gave me an error message, so I don't know if I contributed. Now it seems to be doing the same thing over again: when I click on the red cog symbol the screen appearing says that I've finished 1 WU so far, but my status on the F@H homepage still doesn't recognize my contribution, and I'm not on the team status list either.
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#12 dnamechanic Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Dallas, TX

Posted 01 April 2008 - 12:48 AM

Hi Shoe, thanks for signing on. I think a Moderator will move comments out of this thread. But for now I will post a response.

...so I don't know if I contributed.

When your (or anyone's) first work unit is completed your (their) username will appear here.

And, now your name has been listed, I will post an acknowledgement of your contribution in this thread.


(edited by Matthias: yes, done)

Edited by Matthias, 01 April 2008 - 07:17 PM.

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#13 Tyciol Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Canada

Posted 06 April 2008 - 08:49 PM

Dangit! I got this newsletter much too late! This type of thing is just exactly my bag, as I've been doing F@H in sync with CastleCops up until now, 36 WUs completed. I wonder if it is possible to get a 2nd account going for twice as much work, or does Stanford only allow 1 account per computer/person? Because if you leave your group I think it erases records of your contributions plus I really like CC. I wouldn't mind leaving them for a month and then returning when this is over to get a shot at the money though, lol.

I think there is probably some kind of limit to how fast any computer could process a work unit right? Meaning if we could somehow get the program running twice, we could do more work or something?

An option is keeping the computer on 24/7, but this might overheat my room now that the weather is warming up. Stupid computers have to be so high-grade now to run Vista, what a waste. Sometimes I have to shut down explorer.exe when IE locks up just to save data on whatever websites I'm visiting.

Edited by Tyciol, 06 April 2008 - 08:52 PM.

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#14 dnamechanic Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Dallas, TX

Posted 06 April 2008 - 09:38 PM

..., or does Stanford only allow 1 account per computer/person?

Thanks Tyciol, it's good that you are interested the F@H Prize and and already contributing to another effort.

You can have many accounts at F@H Stanford.

You may change your team name, or your username, or both.

Your current contributions will remain on record with your existing team and username. You can always go back and see your accomplishments. And, if you desire you can return to the original team and username and resume contribution there.

Because if you leave your group I think it erases records of your contributions plus I really like CC. I wouldn't mind leaving them for a month and then returning when this is over to get a shot at the money though, lol.

No problem.

You will not lose. Stanford does not erase, the points and work units remains on your team and username record.

The prize is awarded for three months effort. Points are accumulated for the entire three months. You will be competing against contributors that will run for the entire 3 months. More time yields more accumulated points.

I think there is probably some kind of limit to how fast any computer could process a work unit right?

Working a work unit takes all the capability your CPU has, except when you interrupt it with something you want to do.

Meaning if we could somehow get the program running twice, we could do more work or something?

If setup properly, you can have two clients running simultaneously. But...

- If your computer has a regular single core CPU, then each client will get 50% of the processor capability. So the progress on each one will be halved, or maybe slightly less than halved. multitasking not completely efficient. Unless...

- If you have a P4 with hyperthreading (not all P4s have hyperthreading), then you can gain a bit of processor efficiency running two clients (maybe 15-20% over running a single thread).

- Or, if you have a dual-core computer or a quad-core computer then, one thread (client) per core is quite good. But if you have multicore, the SMP folding is the way to go. (Questions? bring up in Productivity & Perfornmance thread).

An option is keeping the computer on 24/7, but this might overheat my room now that the weather is warming up. ...

Yes 24/7 gets most points.. and most heat ;)
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#15 Live Forever Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Atlanta, GA USA

Posted 07 April 2008 - 05:16 PM

Step 1 on the announcement page should probably be clear that you can use your PS3 as well. It makes it sound like you have to use your computer to download the client.
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#16 dnamechanic Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Dallas, TX

Posted 07 April 2008 - 06:16 PM

Step 1 on the announcement page should probably be clear that you can use your PS3 as well.

Very good point, thanks for reminding us.

To emphasize the contribution that PS3s are capable of; here is a production history chart of a new contributor to the Longevity Meme team "buzcut".

Buzcut started less than a week ago and is evidently running three PS3s. He has risen to among the top contributors in points-per-day (PPD).

Current PPD is listed as 2,589 PPD, with less than a full-weeks folding time. The PPD listed is a 7-day running average. Looks like buzcut's average PPD will settle in around 3,000 PPD (see graph).

Buzcut is buzzing through 125 point work units (WUs) at approximately three per each Stats update (every three hours). That is ~one WU per hour! See the table at the bottom.

Attached File  buzcut.jpg   86.15KB   113 downloads

Buzcut has not registered for the F@H Prize .

Edited by dnamechanic, 07 April 2008 - 06:34 PM.

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#17 Mind Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Wausau, WI
  • yes

Posted 08 April 2008 - 05:42 PM

added (or PS3) to the feature article and the splash page.
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#18 thughes Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Raleigh, North Carolina

Posted 22 April 2008 - 03:24 PM

Does the point counter lag significantly? April 12th I was 1,209 (thughes). I'm still 1,209 and several work units have been completed since then.

- Mey
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#19 dnamechanic Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Dallas, TX

Posted 22 April 2008 - 05:46 PM

Does the point counter lag significantly? April 12th I was 1,209 (thughes). I'm still 1,209 and several work units have been completed since then.

Hi Mey,

Your question is a important one. It is good that you check the progress and the postings.

Since the F@H Prize Progress Display is non-automated there is a good chance of human error.

Looking at your starting points (thughes), when the prize began on April 2, you had accumulated 3,422 points. Yesterday, according to Stanford Stats your score was 4,631. Participating contributor’s points for the F@H Prize are based on points accumulated since the prize started or since registering, if registering later than the starting time.

Your points reported yesterday in the F@H Progress display of 1,209 is equal to the difference between your starting score and yesterday’s score:

4,631-3,422=1,209

You are correct that you have completed work units since April 12. EOC Stats show four work units completed. All four have been reported since yesterday's F@H Prize Display update.

Occasionally, maybe let's say once a year, Stanford Stats does lose a work unit or maybe two for an individual with high productivity, never many. These losses may be caused by many things, likely communications related (software or hardware). Sometimes the losses are recovered later, and in a seemingly mysterious manner one has extra credit. Considering all the data that the Stanford F@H handles, it seems that they do quite well.

Attached File  thughes.jpg   92.4KB   117 downloads

Your score today at Stanford Stats currently is 5,000, which means your reported score in the F@H Prize Progress display will be increased.

Your question about

"the point counter lag significantly?"

Stanford tries to update points every two hours, normally starting at the top of the hour, for me it is even-numbered hour (CDT). During the update process, Stanford's site is unavailable for approximately 45 minutes.

At the Stanford site, there can be a lag of about two hours or maybe more, depending on timing of completed work unit relative to Stanford's schedule.

Extreme Overclocking reports stats every three hours beginning at the top of the hour: (times CDT) 12, 3, 6, 9 etc. It may take EOC 45 minutes to complete their update, though they are bringing new hardware online to speed this process. So, EOC stats lag behind Stanfords by a few hours.

The F@H Progress Display is based only on Stanford stats. The display has the date & time stamp in the title. The time corresponds to when Stanford began updating their stats that was used in the display, at the top of the hour.

Thank you thughes for your good work.

Edited by dnamechanic, 22 April 2008 - 08:17 PM.

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#20 dnamechanic Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Dallas, TX

Posted 23 April 2008 - 12:30 AM

In further response to your inquiry, thughes, and this information could be helpful to others.

Early Unit End (EUEs)

In the data from thughes work shown above in the previous post, there were four work units reported fairly close in time on April 21.

One, or maybe two, of these work units could represent cases of Early Unit Ends (EUEs), a term used to describe work units that do not finish folding or self-terminate prematurely. The most often cause of EUEs is a glitch in the processing computer, either hardware or software related. When this happens, the work unit data becomes corrupted and error-detecting mechanisms may terminate the work unit. If a terminated work unit had progressed and enough data survives to indicate how much progress was made, the Stanford awards partial credit for EUEs.

The reason an occurrence of EUE is suspected in the data above is that there are no work units listed in the Stanford Projects list with a point value less than 15 points. The EOC table above shows one work unit reported at 9PM with a value of seven points. This could indicate the work unit terminated early and Stanford credited it with partial credit of seven points.

Also, there were two work units reported at 6 PM with a total point value of 347 points. If thughes were folding with one computer, which I think is the case, then completing two work units in that time period is unlikely. If the first one of the work units were 332 points and the second 15 points, it could happen. But, there are no 332-point value work units listed and I don't recall seeing any. A more likely scenario is that a work unit of 343 points (a usual value) was completed, and a second work unit started but EUE'ed, with a credit of 4 points awarded.
.
The F@H software on a contributor's computer records progress as the work unit proceeds in a file called, 'FAHlog.txt'. This text file is located in the Windows Folder that contains the F@H client. One can examine the contents of the log and see when a EUE has occurred. An example shown below at the end of a FAHlog.txt shows the work unit completing 36% then 37%, and after that an error occurred:

[05:07:15] Completed 45000 out of 125000 steps (36)
[05:12:16] Timered checkpoint triggered.
[05:17:17] Timered checkpoint triggered.
[05:18:36] Writing local files
[05:18:36] Completed 46250 out of 125000 steps (37)
[05:21:51] CoreStatus = 1 (1)
[05:21:51] Client-core communications error: ERROR 0x1
[05:21:51] Deleting current work unit & continuing...
[05:22:11] Trying to send all finished work units
[05:22:11] + No unsent completed units remaining.
[05:22:11] - Preparing to get new work unit...

In the case above, the cause was a rarely-seen software conflict with WinXP. The solution was to terminate the offending software (unrelated to folding process). The next step, for the computer running the work unit shown in the log above, is to send the aborted work unit back to Stanford and download a new one.

Edited by dnamechanic, 23 April 2008 - 12:44 AM.

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#21 sentinel Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:London (ish)

Posted 20 June 2008 - 03:56 PM

I've been really lame and only just found out what this is about. I've got quite a few PCs and servers I could throw this at (not exactly a Grid or Farm but a start) but before I sign up, is there an Imminst group that we can assign our "usership" to? (I tried to go in but it's got the "busy for 45" msg up)?

Better late..

Sentinel
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#22 dnamechanic Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Dallas, TX

Posted 20 June 2008 - 04:44 PM

I've got quite a few PCs and servers I could throw this at (not exactly a Grid or Farm but a start) but before I sign up, is there an Imminst group that we can assign our "usership" to? (I tried to go in but it's got the "busy for 45" msg up)?
Sentinel


Hi Sentinel, thanks for your inquiry.

Stanford F@H Stats updates scores every two hours. During the upate (approx 45 minutes) the Stats site is unavailable.

There is a registration for the F@H Prize thread. If you register with your folding username, then you will be eligible for the F@H Prize, description, here.

Otherwise, just set up all your computers with the team number for The Longevity Meme (team number 32461).

Feel free to ask if something is unclear. Looking forward to seeing your Username in TLM F@H.
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#23 Mind Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Wausau, WI
  • yes

Posted 20 June 2008 - 04:51 PM

Very nice to hear you are interested Sentinel. Momentum is building and your help is much appreciated. You can begin at any time. The first quarter competition ends at midnight June 30th, so unless you have 100 computers, you probably will not be in the running for 1st quarter prize money (but you can start now anyway) Your points for the 2nd quarter competition will start accumulating on July 1st.
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#24 sentinel Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:London (ish)

Posted 20 June 2008 - 09:04 PM

Very nice to hear you are interested Sentinel. Momentum is building and your help is much appreciated. You can begin at any time. The first quarter competition ends at midnight June 30th, so unless you have 100 computers, you probably will not be in the running for 1st quarter prize money (but you can start now anyway) Your points for the 2nd quarter competition will start accumulating on July 1st.


Ha! 100 no, may 7 or 8.. I'm doing a lot of work with a couple of banks who are getting their grids up up to a pretty high standard for derivative portfolio risk calculations and the rate of progress is staggering, which is why this caught my eye. I'll get my act together by monday and get a few instances up and running, some are 24x7. I'm not really bothered about prizes, money etc Perhaps it could just be donated to Imminst (or the artist formally known as Imminst depending on when you're reading this thread!)

Sentinel

Edited by sentinel, 20 June 2008 - 09:06 PM.

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#25 Mind Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Wausau, WI
  • yes

Posted 22 June 2008 - 11:21 PM

For the 2nd quarter, I was thinking about automatically including every NEW folder into the prize competition, but then there is the problem of contacting a winner if they are not a member of Imminst or have not "registered". Having the opt-in registration thread makes this easier.
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#26 Heliotrope Re: Questions/Discussion

Posted 23 June 2008 - 01:00 AM

I don't care much for the prize money (only $150 even if 1st prize , amongst all Longevity Meme teammates or what?) but I'd like to help w/ the research. i've only got a 4 year-old laptop. it's not that good, even spontaneously restarts sometimes (will exchange for a new soon). How much can i contribute anyway? I'd like to know the technical details since i'm not very good w/ computers.

by the way, my school has many computer labs with much more powerful computers than mine and they usually just sit there doing nothing esp during the summer. I'm here taking summer classes and working jobs so is there a way I can hook those to F@H? I wouldn't want to get into trouble with tampering school machines and i think some of them are programmed to restart and clear out temp files every so often

Edited by HYP86, 23 June 2008 - 01:06 AM.

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#27 dnamechanic Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Dallas, TX

Posted 23 June 2008 - 02:05 AM

I don't care much for the prize money (only $150 even if 1st prize , amongst all Longevity Meme teammates or what?)

Thanks for your interest in F@H.

Currently the first prize of the F@H Prize is $150. This prize goes to the top registered folder (based on contributed points) with The Longevity Meme team. Looks like this will be Maciek_Kolodziejczyk, see here.

There are 12 prizes to be awarded, each prize goes to an individual contributor based on the accumulated number of points.

Prize money will be distributed to the top twelve competitors, excluding members TMichael and Maestro949 (organizers of the prize), on the Longevity Meme team with the following amounts awarded:
$150 1st
$100 2nd
$50 3rd
$25 4th
$10 5th thru 12th


...but I'd like to help w/ the research. i've only got a 4 year-old laptop. it's not that good, even spontaneously restarts sometimes (will exchange for a new soon). How much can i contribute anyway?


Laptop computers can be good contributors. They are more efficient (less electricity power) than desktop computers.

...I'd like to know the technical details since i'm not very good w/ computers.


Probably the best way to get a feel for what is going on is to downoad a client and start it folding. Performing the mathematical computations to simulate protein folding is very intense for the CPU in a computer. A computer only folds (processes) when it is powered on, so if your laptop is running on battery very much you may not be able to fullly utilize it.

The Longevity Meme has a brief description and setup instructions, here.

When you connect to the Stanford site, based on your hardware and operating system, it will recommend a client for you to download. Just download the client and install and follow instructions. Choose your username well, because you cannot later transfer your contributions to a new name.

Spaces are not permitted in the username, if you use two names put and underscore between as a placeholder, like this:

John_Smith

Be sure to use the Longevity Meme team number (32461).

Once you start the client it will connect and download a work unit and begin processing. When the work unit is finished, the computer will attempt to connect to a Stanford server to send in the results. Once Stanford gets the results, after at most 2-3 hours, your username will first appear here. Later your username will appear at all the Stats sites, such as EOC and Kakao stats. While connected to the Stanford server, a new work unit will be downloaded to your computer and processing starts again, and so on.

...by the way, my school has many computer labs with much more powerful computers than mine and they usually just sit there doing nothing esp during the summer. I'm here taking summer classes and working jobs so is there a way I can hook those to F@H? I wouldn't want to get into trouble with tampering school machines and i think some of them are programmed to restart and clear out temp files every so often


It is best to get permission to use public computers.

If it is OK with the computer owners, there are some ways of doing this:

- Some determined contributors set up folding on a USB flash drive and fold when the computers are available.

- Also, one can download the client and install to a computer without administrative privileges. The client installs in a alternative location without registry entries. In most cases, this works just fine.

Probably it is best to just see how the folding works on your laptop and go from there.
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#28 Jimmy Re: Questions/Discussion

  • Location:Earth
  • no

Posted 23 June 2008 - 02:21 AM

I think I'm in 10th place. If I win anything ($10.00?) please just donate it to the M-prize. If possible Thanks!
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#29 Heliotrope Re: Questions/Discussion

Posted 02 July 2008 - 08:51 AM

i downloaded both the text (DOS file type command line) console and the Graphics Console. The graphic console is nicer so i'm using the graphics. i'm folding away now!


to keep it easy, i put my alias as HYP86, team 32461 , TLM team . looks like it's pretty slow though, estimating taking 3 days to finish one WU, i don't how much each WU is or how many Points (PPD) i get for that. the downloading and uploading of workorders won't take the forms of large files right? i read somewhere 5 MB sizes , so it's like the size of an mp3 song? I have an internet usage limit of 10 GB of down or uploadingper month

Edited by HYP86, 02 July 2008 - 09:00 AM.

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#30 Heliotrope Re: Questions/Discussion

Posted 02 July 2008 - 10:36 AM

now the graphics console display shows it'll complete the WU in 5 hours , it zips through a frame faster now. What's a frame by the way , i'm on frame 13 out of 150, each WU is divided to 150 frames? the more WUs you complete the more points you get?

i think i saw a formula somewhere : Points =110 * (WU completed per day) or something like that, forgot the exact one

before i installed F@H console, i checked my CPU usage, usually oscillates btw 10 to 40% of CPU usage now it hovers around 90%, sometimes using all 100% of my CPU. The computer's internal fan is working overtime too, dissipating heat faster. my laptop won't overheat and explode would it? Should I blow another desk or window fan on it (my room is pretty warm during daytime ,room temp in the 70s or near 80 degrees). The bottom of my laptop feels hot.

Edited by HYP86, 02 July 2008 - 10:43 AM.

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