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Any contraindication for taking Adderall and Piracetam/CDP Choline?


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#1 Rags847

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 06:24 AM


Safe to take Adderall and Piracetam/CDP Choline together?
Adderall and Piracetam have seperate distinct mechanisms or do they overlap and potentiate or cancel or otherwise effect each other?
Article below reports that CDP Choline increases dopamine levels. Too much dopamine potentiation here? Or Adderall significantly raises dopamine levels and CDP Choline does so only slightly?
Any thoughts? Any theories? Any science?


http://www.delano.co...GPC-Sharpe.html

"Another useful property shared by alpha GPC and CDP-choline is that oral administration of either one increases the release of the neurotransmitter dopamine in the brain 20, 21. It's worth recalling that defective dopamine signaling is associated with Parkinson's disease in much the same way that defective acetylcholine signaling is associated with Alzheimer's disease. There is evidence of enhanced PC metabolism in Parkinson's, perhaps as a result of brain cells trying to compensate for the neurodegenerative process 22. In this sense there may be an increased demand for CDP-choline or alpha GPC in Parkinson's disease, where they may be needed to rebuild damaged cell membranes and to facilitate dopamine release as well.

L-DOPA is an amino acid precursor to dopamine that is widely used in treating Parkinson's. Animal studies have shown that oral CDP-choline treatment enhances the effects of L-DOPA by increasing the release of dopamine newly synthesized from it 23. In human trials, a combination of CDP-choline with L-DOPA was able to improve neurological symptoms with a smaller effective dose of L-DOPA than patients had previously received without CDP-choline 24, 25. This result is important because chronic use of L-DOPA eventually results in neurotoxicity and loss of clinical effectiveness. The hope is that by combining CDP-choline with smaller doses of L-DOPA, it may be possible to prolong the period during which L-DOPA remains effective. In view of the known ability of alpha GPC to enhance dopamine release as well 20, a similar therapeutic enhancement of L-DOPA activity is also likely to occur with alpha GPC, but there aren't any clinical data available yet to confirm this suggestion.

Since chronic cocaine abuse is likewise associated with dopamine depletion and increased turnover of cell membranes, the choline-dopamine connection predicts that CDP-choline and alpha GPC should each be effective for treating cocaine addiction. This has indeed been verified for CDP-choline 26 but not yet for alpha GPC. In addition, I will personally go out on a limb here and predict that CDP-choline, alpha GPC, or both should be helpful in treating attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), either as an adjunct to stimulants like Ritalin or as stand-alone supplements. I base my conclusion on the known involvement of dopamine metabolism in ADHD 27 as well as on the dopamine-releasing and cognitive enhancing effects of CDP-choline and alpha GPC discussed in previous paragraphs."





And off Wiki:

Amphetimine page.


Contraindications, interactions, and precautions
The following provides only general guidelines and is not comprehensive. Please refer to a more comprehensive list for further information regarding co-administration of amphetamine with other substances.

  • SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, e.g., Fluoxetine, Citalopram, Paroxetine, etc.) — While rare, the possibility for serotonin syndrome exists with this combination. Use only when it is directed.
  • NRIs (norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors, e.g., Atomoxetine, Strattera, etc.) — NRI medications and amphetamine both enhance noradrengic activity. Possible augmentation/potentiation of effects. Use only when directed.
  • SNRIs (selective serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors) — See SSRIs and NRIs.
  • Bupropion (Zyban, Wellbutrin IR, ~SR, ~XL, etc.) — Both bupropion and amphetamine have noradrengic and dopaminergic activity. Possible augmentation/potentiation of effects. Bupropion has pro-convulsant properties that may be enhanced or cumulatively potentiated by amphetamine. Use only when directed.
  • MAOIs (monoamine oxidase inhibitors, e.g., Phenelzine, Nardil, Selegiline, Emsam, Iproniazid, Iprozid, etc.) — Do not administer amphetamines for a minimum of two weeks after last use of MAOI type drug. Possible hypertensive crises, dangerously elevated amphetamine levels. Preliminary trials of low dose amphetamine and MAOIs being administered together are in progress. However, this is to only be done under strict supervision of the prescribing parties.
  • Tricyclics (tricyclic antidepressants, e.g., Imipramine, Tofranil, Janamine, etc.) — See SNRIs and SSRIs. Possible potentiation of 5htp (serotonin), dopamine and norepinephrine related drug effects. Use only when indicated.

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#2 Exodus

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 01:27 AM

I can tell you I have taken 20mg Adderall XR with different racetams namely;pramiracetam and oxiracetam and havent had any ill side effects.

I do have pretty bad diagnosed ADD.. I have found this mix along with some caffiene to be ridiculously effective. I have never felt so incredibly spot on as i have with that mix.. unfortunately it can be a bit of a roller coaster as i am very sensitive to nutrition and sleep.

I am thinking of adding in some choline.
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#3 Rags847

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 04:32 AM

unfortunately it can be a bit of a roller coaster as i am very sensitive to nutrition and sleep.


Thanks for posting your experience, Exodus. I can certainly relate to being sensitive to nutrition and sleep. My first 8 days on a ADD med (Adderall IR) and it can work amazingly well, but I have noticed that if I get busy and don't eat that brain fog will hit me in a super-bad way (sort of a "brain lock" where I can't think well, process thoughts, remember well, I make a number of little mistakes and lapses of memory) - in a way and to a degree that is below baseline (my brain on no meds). I'm still learning to use the meds and evaluate their effects, but eating enough and proper nutrition I can't stress enough when on something like Adderall. It seems to determine whether Adderall will end up enhancing or actually diminishing my functioning.
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#4 mentatpsi

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Posted 31 March 2008 - 10:12 PM

potentiating serotonin... amphetamines do increase serotonin if i'm not mistaken... and it would very likely elevate your mood beyond a certain "normal" point... upon this knowledge it would be very wise to be wary of pausing the combination if you ever decide to take a break.

I'll be trying this combination as well during the summer break as i'm uncertain the effect it might have, previously piracetam would really alter my concentration abilities, which i attribute mainly to the deficit it caused on ACh...

anyways keep updating :).
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#5 goldenthree

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 09:00 PM

For me the combination of adderall and piracetam caused me to become a little manic. I have no history of being bipolar, but my thinking became mildly disorganized and my speech filter didn't work as well. The other thing I noticed i usually adderall increases the signal to noise ratio. However when I took choline or piracetam which increases the noise ratio by limiting neuron adaptation sometimes I would have a very hard problem filtering information. For instance it was harder for me to have a conversation in somewhere loud like a bar or coffee shop because I couldn't filter out the other conversations and music.
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