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Can MDMA induced depression be reversed


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#1 enoch1

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Posted 31 March 2008 - 10:31 AM


if they use SSRI antidepressants to treat depressed people can MDMA depression be solved out by going under an SSRI or antidepressant treatment ? or any other medication herb natural supplement would anyone have any facts or information ?

#2 shamus

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Posted 31 March 2008 - 11:00 AM

For the love of god, please be a little more specific when asking about complex phenomena. If you're unfamiliar with the field, then search & ask.


There's no substantial, behavioural depression ensuing MDMA use. There is of course the infamous sub-par levels of serotonin (or 'scatness') & also the induced neurotoxicity.


The former can be treated by 5htp use in the weeks following MDMA use, for the latter I'd use antioxidants + deprenyl (apparently SSRIs can do the trick too, but a dangerous road to go down IMO).

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#3 enoch1

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Posted 31 March 2008 - 12:13 PM

Ive been using Fluoxetine hydrochloride, I've seen a major difference. (been on it 4months now 40mg-60mg) I have been living an active life sports, college etc. well i'll give the SSRI's a go first maybe ill stick with it for 12months then consider St johns wort, 5HTP if the SSRI dont work.

So your saying i can use MDMA with 5HTP supplement which could help restore my health? I think i should stay away from MDMA.

thanks for sharing your information by the way.

#4 ajnast4r

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Posted 31 March 2008 - 12:33 PM

So your saying i can use MDMA with 5HTP supplement which could help restore my health? I think i should stay away from MDMA.


NO..i dont think thats what he was saying, but stay away from mdma if you wanna keep your brain intact.

ihad the same problem... left with sporatic bouts of moderate depression after a few years of mdma abuse. tried EVERYTHING with nothing more than so-so results, untill i found st johns wort (perika brand specifically, no other brand had the same effect). saved my life... it really just turned the lights back on in my brain.

There's no substantial, behavioural depression ensuing MDMA use. There is of course the infamous sub-par levels of serotonin (or 'scatness') & also


incorrect. mdma use can and does damage 5ht receptors.

The former can be treated by 5htp use in the weeks following MDMA use, for the latter I'd use antioxidants + deprenyl (apparently SSRIs can do the trick too, but a dangerous road to go down IMO)


that only helps to replete 5-ht levels, it does not counteract 5-ht receptor damage and downregulation.

Edited by ajnast4r, 31 March 2008 - 12:36 PM.


#5 wild2side

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Posted 31 March 2008 - 10:16 PM

if they use SSRI antidepressants to treat depressed people can MDMA depression be solved out by going under an SSRI or antidepressant treatment ? or any other medication herb natural supplement would anyone have any facts or information ?


I've been down that road. I've tried everything to reverse my MDMA induced depression. Only thing helped me was an SSRI by the name of Zoloft. While at first i was very reluctant to take SSRI's mainly because of this board and other internet sites that lead you to believe that antidepressants are the worst thing to take and that living with depression is better than taking SSRI's. That is simply NOT true. In my experience, they are a life saver. Of course, they may not work for everyone. But seeing as how you most likely suffer from low serotonin activity in your brain, they are probably your best bet.

If you've tried 5htp, St. John's Wort, or anything else labeled as a "mood enhancer" at your local health store and nothing is helping, go see a doctor and tell him/her about your symptoms. You will not regret it.

Take care and good luck.

On a personal note, people should really stop posting questions about serious medical concerns on this board. No one here is qualified to help and thus there is a LOT of bad advice floating about (including this thread).
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#6 enoch1

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Posted 31 March 2008 - 11:09 PM

So gathering all the information from past experience of others who have experienced such a turmoil using an anti depressant treatment wheather it may be Natural supplement or Medical medication can help recover the damage MDMA has caused? and hopefully you could feel 90% 100% again


Okay thanks all that information, of course no one here is a medical professional unless otherwise but use abit of common sense aswell when someone gives advice.

#7 synaesthetic

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Posted 01 April 2008 - 12:58 AM

You may benefit from l-tryptophan or melotonin before bed if you don't already take it.

If you were to take mdma anyway, I'd recommend taking time release alpha lipoic acid beforehand to reduce neurotoxicity.
There are also reports you can look up about prozac or tianeptine being taken at the comedown to stop serotonin levels from dropping too low.

I'd recommend that you stay away from MDMA, wait until a non-damaging version comes out.

Edited by chemflip, 01 April 2008 - 12:59 AM.


#8 lunarsolarpower

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Posted 01 April 2008 - 01:02 AM

On a personal note, people should really stop posting questions about serious medical concerns on this board. No one here is qualified to help and thus there is a LOT of bad advice floating about (including this thread).


Maybe we should hire Dr. Drew. Or even better just refer to him.

#9 Lurker

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Posted 01 April 2008 - 01:18 AM

if they use SSRI antidepressants to treat depressed people can MDMA depression be solved out by going under an SSRI or antidepressant treatment ? or any other medication herb natural supplement would anyone have any facts or information ?


I have read studies that have shown MDMA users end up with less nerve ending in their brain (seritonin receptors?), and another study which has stated that monkeys were able to recover/regrown some of these damaged nuerons with time. It's said that this regrowth is "abnormal," but nobody knows exactly what it does to behavior.

As for treatment, ask a psychiatrist, anti-depressants exist in many forms now.

#10 zoolander

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Posted 01 April 2008 - 01:58 AM

so the question is

"Can MDMA induced depression be reversed"

The answer I believe is yes.

You have to remember that the move to classify ecstacy as a Class A drug was a political move and not one related to the possible health negatives

First of all are you sure that it is the ecstacy that has caused the depression. Often it is poly drug use (i.e combining many drugs) that results in the depression

J Psychoactive Drugs. 2007 Mar;39(1):31-9.Links
Is recreational ecstasy (MDMA) use associated with higher levels of depressive symptoms?
Guillot C.

University of Southern Mississippi Hattiesburg, MS, USA. casey.guillot@usm.edu

Due to potential serotonergic deficits, 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA or Ecstasy) may cause long-term mood disruptions in recreational Ecstasy users. The purpose of this review is to evaluate the evidence for a relationship between recreational Ecstasy use and higher levels of depressive symptoms. Eleven out of 22 studies initially have reported significantly higher depression scores in Ecstasy users in comparison to control participants. However, only three studies ultimately have revealed significantly higher depression scores in comparison to cannabis or polydrug controls. Furthermore, most studies have suffered from methodological weaknesses, and the levels of depressive symptoms that have been found in Ecstasy users have not been shown to be much higher than those found in normative groups. The evidence for an association specifically between Ecstasy use and higher levels of depressive symptoms is currently unconvincing, but the frequent concomitant use of Ecstasy and other illicit drugs has been shown to be associated with higher levels of depressive symptoms. Possible causes include polydrug use in general, MDMA-induced serotonergic deficits, individual effects of illicit drugs besides Ecstasy, combined effects of MDMA and other illicit drugs, and preexisting differences in the levels of depressive symptoms in Ecstasy users.

PMID: 17523583 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Drug Alcohol Depend. 2007 Mar 16;87(2-3):303-11. Epub 2006 Oct 30.Click here to read Click here to read Links
Anxiety, depression, and behavioral symptoms of executive dysfunction in ecstasy users: contributions of polydrug use.
Medina KL, Shear PK.

Department of Psychiatry, University of California at San Diego, 3350 La Jolla Village Drive (151B), San Diego, CA 92161, USA. klmedina@ucsd.edu

BACKGROUND: Given ecstasy's (MDMA) potential serotonergic neurotoxicity, it is plausible that regular ecstasy users would have an elevated prevalence of behavioral executive dysfunction or mood symptoms. However, recent studies have found that the relationship between ecstasy use and psychological symptoms was no longer significant after controlling for marijuana use (e.g., Morgan et al., 2002). The goal of the present study was to examine the relationship between ecstasy exposure and self-reported executive functioning and psychological symptoms after controlling for gender, ethnicity, and other drug use. METHODS: Data were collected from 65 men and women with a wide range of ecstasy use (including 17 marijuana-using controls). Participants were administered the Frontal Systems Behavioral Scale, State-Trait Anxiety Inventory for adults, and the Beck Depression Inventory-2nd edition. RESULTS: Although 19-63% of the ecstasy users demonstrated clinically elevated psychological symptoms, frequency of ecstasy use did not predict the psychological symptoms. No gender differences or interactions were observed. CONCLUSIONS: These results revealed that, although ecstasy users demonstrate elevated levels of psychological symptoms and executive dysfunction, these symptoms are not statistically associated with their ecstasy consumption. Instead, other drug use (alcohol, marijuana, opioids, and inhalants) significantly predict psychological symptoms in this sample of polydrug users.

PMID: 17074449 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


So if we're going to discuss this we must be sure that we've got our facts straight. So.......have you used other drugs? If so would you mind revealing what they are. Ecstacy is one of the most harmless substances compared to others such as alcohol, tabacco (and tomacco), amphetamine, ketamine, cocaine and so on.

An interesting read can be found in The Lancet

Lancet. 2007 Mar 24;369(9566):1047-53.Click here to read Links

Development of a rational scale to assess the harm of drugs of potential misuse.
Nutt D, King LA, Saulsbury W, Blakemore C.

Psychopharmacology Unit, University of Bristol, Bristol, UK. david.j.nutt@bristol.ac.uk

Drug misuse and abuse are major health problems. Harmful drugs are regulated according to classification systems that purport to relate to the harms and risks of each drug. However, the methodology and processes underlying classification systems are generally neither specified nor transparent, which reduces confidence in their accuracy and undermines health education messages. We developed and explored the feasibility of the use of a nine-category matrix of harm, with an expert delphic procedure, to assess the harms of a range of illicit drugs in an evidence-based fashion. We also included five legal drugs of misuse (alcohol, khat, solvents, alkyl nitrites, and tobacco) and one that has since been classified (ketamine) for reference. The process proved practicable, and yielded roughly similar scores and rankings of drug harm when used by two separate groups of experts. The ranking of drugs produced by our assessment of harm differed from those used by current regulatory systems. Our methodology offers a systematic framework and process that could be used by national and international regulatory bodies to assess the harm of current and future drugs of abuse.

PMID: 17382831 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


here's a table from the above paper placing Ecstacy in position 18

Posted Image

Edited by zoolander, 01 April 2008 - 02:00 AM.


#11 zoolander

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Posted 01 April 2008 - 02:07 AM

I would also like to add that because Ecstacy is illegal the content of what is in an "ecstacy" pill is, in most situations, unknown. Hence, ecstacy users are more than likely polydrug users even if they only take "Ecstacy" pills. Ecstacy pills often contain amphetamines, tranquilizers, hallucinogens and opioids. You also have another quite common situation where people use other drugs to bring on the roll (amphetamines/ice/cocaine) and to slide off the roll (marijuana).

#12 ikaros

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Posted 01 April 2008 - 10:29 AM

Posted Image

For illustration of MDMA's effects on the brain.

To the left we have a normal primate brain without the use of ecstasy and to the right we have primate dorsal cortex after treatment with MDMA. Note that the atrophied serotonion axons were still looking like this after 18 months of abstinence, clearly indicating long-term damage.

I know there are different opinions on the dangers of ecstasy compared to for example alcohol, but IMHO the stuff really is something to be avoided.

Tianeptine has shown to be a very powerful drug for regenerating damaged brains.

Edited by ikaros, 01 April 2008 - 10:31 AM.


#13 kevinr

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Posted 01 April 2008 - 01:01 PM

For illustration of MDMA's effects on the brain.

To the left we have a normal primate brain without the use of ecstasy and to the right we have primate dorsal cortex after treatment with MDMA. Note that the atrophied serotonion axons were still looking like this after 18 months of abstinence, clearly indicating long-term damage.

I know there are different opinions on the dangers of ecstasy compared to for example alcohol, but IMHO the stuff really is something to be avoided.


It's my understanding that this study was done intravenously, using large and continuous dosing. I know it has taken a lot of flack because it doesn't mimmic human recreational use. A lot of substances become damaging with macro doses. I'm not saying it's harmful or isn't harmful, but as far as I've seen, there is a lot of evidence that shows in a controlled clinical environment, this is a safe substance. However any time someone wants to claim the dangers, they refer back to this same study. Just saying, we need to be careful how we throw information around and use it as gospel, both the negatives and the positives.

#14 ikaros

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Posted 01 April 2008 - 01:47 PM

intravenously, using large and continuous dosing


MDMA has a very high absorption also orally, the doses were in the range used by average recreational users (5mg/kg, two doses), the period was 4 days which is somewhat continuous, but it reflects some of the more enthusiastical users. The significance lies in the length of abstinence and the persitence of some of the effects, so if you pop MDMA every weekend or even once a month, it's still a very short period for the brain to recuperate. I think the reality tends to lie in the amount of drug used and and how often, the problem with MDMA's dosage is that the line between neurotoxicity and safe doses is a very narrow one. The safety of MDMA still warrants significantly more study before it can be said to be a benign drug.

#15 Spiral Architect

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 12:05 AM

intravenously, using large and continuous dosing


MDMA has a very high absorption also orally, the doses were in the range used by average recreational users (5mg/kg, two doses), the period was 4 days which is somewhat continuous, but it reflects some of the more enthusiastical users. The significance lies in the length of abstinence and the persitence of some of the effects, so if you pop MDMA every weekend or even once a month, it's still a very short period for the brain to recuperate. I think the reality tends to lie in the amount of drug used and and how often, the problem with MDMA's dosage is that the line between neurotoxicity and safe doses is a very narrow one. The safety of MDMA still warrants significantly more study before it can be said to be a benign drug.



Since when is the average dose 5mg/kg? AFAIK a normal pill only has 50-150mg MAX. Applying anything more than that for the duration of a few days instead of giving them a one time hit that reflects actual human use is a blatant manipulation. Any situation in your brain that involves a huge increase in excitatory transmissions for a prolonged period will cause toxicity, but so far, there's no evidence that RESPONSIBLE, normal dose use of MDMA is close to the threshhold that will cause lasting damage. Until I see a study that involves real doses, I will not be convinced that pure MDMA is harmful.

Please don't spread anti-drug propaganda.

#16 ajnast4r

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 12:15 AM

well lets be real here... how many people use mdma responsibly? or even have that mindset when using it?

most people who do it are doing multiple pills, and more often than not combining it with other drugs... in fact in all the years i abused drugs i dont think i ever saw anyone take a single pill of ecstacy and not use another drug or re-dose within a few hours.

#17 wild2side

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 04:35 AM

Until I see a study that involves real doses, I will not be convinced that pure MDMA is harmful.

Please don't spread anti-drug propaganda.


This is what got me into doing hard drugs like MDMA in the first place - reading * comments by * people on the internet. I hope no one else here makes the same mistake. Do some research.

(edited by Matthias: no flame war please)

Edited by Matthias, 02 April 2008 - 03:29 PM.


#18 insanet

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 05:06 AM

i dont want to sound preachy on my first post but i will any ways, for the love of god quit that drug. use lighter substances also 5-htp is often used to treat the depression just remember more wont make you feel better take the recommended amount serotonin syndrome isnt fun.

#19 Spiral Architect

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 08:59 AM

well lets be real here... how many people use mdma responsibly? or even have that mindset when using it?

most people who do it are doing multiple pills, and more often than not combining it with other drugs... in fact in all the years i abused drugs i dont think i ever saw anyone take a single pill of ecstacy and not use another drug or re-dose within a few hours.


How many people drive responsibly? Drink responsibly? Eat responsibly?
Don't blame the drug, blame those who use it.
[...]

(edited by Matthias: no flame war please)

Edited by Matthias, 02 April 2008 - 03:30 PM.


#20 ikaros

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 12:19 PM

Since when is the average dose 5mg/kg?


My apologizes, the 5 mg/kg was the dose used in monkeys which is equivalent to a human dose of 1,7 mg/kg. The copied excerpt from the study:

...although the more frequent occurrence of altered reinnervation
patterns in MDMA-treated monkeys than in MDMA-treated rodents
raises the question of whether similar neuronal alterations
might develop in MDMA-exposed humans. As noted previously,
the toxic dose of MDMA in the monkey closely approaches that
typically used by humans (5 mg/kg vs 1.7 mg/kg) (Seymour,...


The full study is available here: http://www.jneurosci...tract/15/8/5476

Please don't spread anti-drug propaganda.


The point isn't anti-drug propaganda, but caution before more isn't known.

#21 ajnast4r

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 03:40 PM

How many people drive responsibly? Drink responsibly? Eat responsibly?
Don't blame the drug, blame those who use it.


there are guidelines set for proper driving, proper drinking, proper eating.. there are no guidelines set for proper mdma use... and therein lies the difference..

you can banter on about responsible use all you want, but that is purely your opinion. the science tends to be learning towards the fact that recreational doses of mdma DO cause damage

Edited by ajnast4r, 02 April 2008 - 03:42 PM.


#22 Spiral Architect

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 03:57 PM

Since when is the average dose 5mg/kg?


My apologizes, the 5 mg/kg was the dose used in monkeys which is equivalent to a human dose of 1,7 mg/kg. The copied excerpt from the study:


"Rats received four intraperitoneal doses of 10mg/kg MDMA at 2 hr intervals, for a total dose of 40mg/kg. Monkeys also received a total dose of 40 mg/kg, but they received MDMA subcutaneously, at a dose of 5mg/kg twice daily for four consecutive days, for a total of 8 doses. ... The aforementioned drug regiments were employed because they have been previously shown to reliably produce large serotonergic deficits ... "

They administered a much greater amount in a more direct way.

#23 enoch1

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 08:11 AM

hold your horses, this is turning into a dispute, All i was after was past experience people have gone through from using this drug, and how and if they did recover from the damaging affects of it.

Does the drug damage the whole neuron or just deplete it from making serotonin molecules to work in the synapse.

#24 psychedevil

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 03:52 AM

J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2005 Sep;314(3):1002-12. Epub 2005 Jun 3.

(+/-)-3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine administration to rats does not decrease levels of the serotonin transporter protein or alter its distribution between endosomes and the plasma membrane.

Wang X, Baumann MH, Xu H, Morales M, Rothman RB.Clinical Psychopharmacology Section, Intramural Program, National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health, Baltimore, Maryland, USA.

We showed that the serotonin (5-HT) neurotoxin 5,7-dihydroxytryptamine (5,7-DHT) reduces brain tissue 5-HT, decreases expression of 5-HT transporter (SERT) protein, and increases expression of glial fibrillary acidic protein (GFAP). In contrast, doses of (+/-)-3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) that decrease brain tissue 5-HT fail to alter expression of SERT or GFAP. Using a new and highly sensitive anti-SERT antibody, we determined whether MDMA alters the subcellular distribution of SERT protein by measuring SERT expression in endosomes and plasma membranes 2 weeks after MDMA administration. Rat brain tissues (caudate, cortex, and hippocampus) were collected 3 days and 2 weeks after MDMA (7.5 mg/kg i.p., every 2 h x 3 doses) or 5,7-DHT (150 microg/rat i.c.v.) administration. Representative results from cortex are as follows. At both 3 days and 2 weeks postinjection, MDMA decreased tissue 5-HT (65%) and had no effect on GFAP expression. MDMA increased heat shock protein 32 (HSP32; a marker for microglial activation) expression (30%) at 3 days, but not 2 weeks. MDMA did not alter SERT expression at either time point and did not alter SERT levels in either endosomes or plasma membranes (2 weeks). 5,7-DHT decreased tissue 5-HT (80%), increased HSP32 expression at both time points (about 50%), and increased GFAP expression at 2 weeks (40%). 5,7-DHT decreased SERT expression (33%) at 2 weeks, but not at 3 days. These findings indicate that a dosing regimen of MDMA that depletes brain 5-HT does not alter SERT protein expression or the distribution of SERT between endosomes and the plasma membrane and does not produce detectable evidence for neurotoxicity.

PMID: 15937150 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Neuroscience. 2007 Aug 10;148(1):212-20. Epub 2007 Jul 12.

Restoration of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine-induced 5-HT depletion by the administration of L-5-hydroxytryptophan.

Wang X, Baumann MH, Dersch CM, Rothman RB.Clinical Psychopharmacology Section, Intramural Research Program, National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health, P.O. Box 5180, 5500 Nathan Shock Drive, Baltimore, MD 21224, USA.

BACKGROUND: 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) causes persistent decreases in brain 5-HT content and 5-HT transporter (SERT) binding, with no detectable changes in SERT protein. Such data suggest that MDMA impairs 5-HT transmission but leaves 5-HT nerve terminals intact. To further test this hypothesis, we carried out two types of experiments in rats exposed to high-dose MDMA. First, we examined the effects of MDMA on SERT binding and function using different in vitro assay conditions. Next, we treated rats with the 5-HT precursor, l-5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP), in an attempt to restore MDMA-induced depletions of 5-HT. METHODS: Rats received three i.p. injections of saline or MDMA (7.5 mg/kg), one injection every 2 h. Rats in one group were decapitated, and brain tissue was assayed for SERT binding and [(3)H]5-HT uptake under conditions of normal (100 or 126 mM) and low (20 mM) NaCl concentration. Rats from another group received saline or 5-hydroxytryptophan/benserazide (5-HTP-B), each drug at 50 mg/kg i.p., and were killed 2 h later. RESULTS: MDMA reduced SERT binding to 10% of control when assayed in 100 mM NaCl, but this reduction was only 55% of control in 20 mM NaCl. MDMA decreased immunoreactive 5-HT in caudate and hippocampus to about 35% of control. Administration of 5-HTP-B to MDMA-pretreated rats significantly increased the 5-HT signal toward normal levels in caudate (85% of control) and hippocampus (66% of control). CONCLUSION: 1) Following high-dose MDMA treatment sufficient to reduce SERT binding by 90%, a significant number of functionally intact 5-HT nerve terminals survive. 2) The degree of MDMA-induced decreases in SERT binding depends on the in vitro assay conditions. 3) 5-HTP-B restores brain 5-HT depleted by MDMA, suggesting that this approach might be clinically useful in abstinent MDMA users.

PMID: 17629409 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Short answer: Recent evidence indicates that previous reports of MDMA neurotoxicity may have been overstated. It appears that MDMA does not cause structural damage to serotonin (5-HT) neurons and instead causes a loss of 5-HT function (see the studies cited above). Granted, this loss of 5-HT function is potentially long-term (depending on dose and frequency of use), which may contribute to the development of psychopathology (especially in individuals with a preexisting psychological vulnerability or in those abusing a number of substances including MDMA), but apparently function can be restored over time, given that brain imaging studies have not revealed lower serotonin transporter binding in the brains of Ecstasy users who had been abstinent for 20 weeks or longer (see the PET or SPECT studies conducted by Buchert et al., 2003, 2004; Reneman et al., 2001; Thomasius et al., 2003).

Also, in response to the person who said a 5.0 mg/kg dose in monkeys is equivalent to a 1.7 mg/kg dose in humans, see the study cited below. The figure you quoted is based on "interspecies dose scaling," the accuracy of which is debatable.



Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2007 Jan;189(4):407-24. Epub 2006 Mar 16.

3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) neurotoxicity in rats: a reappraisal of past and present findings.

Baumann MH, Wang X, Rothman RB.Clinical Psychopharmacology Section, Intramural Research Program (IRP), National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), National Institutes of Health (NIH), 5500 Nathan Shock Drive, Baltimore, MD 21224, USA. mbaumann@intra.nida.nih.gov

RATIONALE: 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) is a widely abused illicit drug. In animals, high-dose administration of MDMA produces deficits in serotonin (5-HT) neurons (e.g., depletion of forebrain 5-HT) that have been interpreted as neurotoxicity. Whether such 5-HT deficits reflect neuronal damage is a matter of ongoing debate. OBJECTIVE: The present paper reviews four specific issues related to the hypothesis of MDMA neurotoxicity in rats: (1) the effects of MDMA on monoamine neurons, (2) the use of "interspecies scaling" to adjust MDMA doses across species, (3) the effects of MDMA on established markers of neuronal damage, and (4) functional impairments associated with MDMA-induced 5-HT depletions. RESULTS: MDMA is a substrate for monoamine transporters, and stimulated release of 5-HT, NE, and DA mediates effects of the drug. MDMA produces neurochemical, endocrine, and behavioral actions in rats and humans at equivalent doses (e.g., 1-2 mg/kg), suggesting that there is no reason to adjust doses between these species. Typical doses of MDMA causing long-term 5-HT depletions in rats (e.g., 10-20 mg/kg) do not reliably increase markers of neurotoxic damage such as cell death, silver staining, or reactive gliosis. MDMA-induced 5-HT depletions are accompanied by a number of functional consequences including reductions in evoked 5-HT release and changes in hormone secretion. Perhaps more importantly, administration of MDMA to rats induces persistent anxiety-like behaviors in the absence of measurable 5-HT deficits. CONCLUSIONS: MDMA-induced 5-HT depletions are not necessarily synonymous with neurotoxic damage. However, doses of MDMA which do not cause long-term 5-HT depletions can have protracted effects on behavior, suggesting even moderate doses of the drug may pose risks.

PMID: 16541247 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Edited by psychedevil, 24 May 2008 - 03:54 AM.


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#25 drmz

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 07:45 PM

so the question is

"Can MDMA induced depression be reversed"

The answer I believe is yes.

You have to remember that the move to classify ecstacy as a Class A drug was a political move and not one related to the possible health negatives

First of all are you sure that it is the ecstacy that has caused the depression. Often it is poly drug use (i.e combining many drugs) that results in the depression

J Psychoactive Drugs. 2007 Mar;39(1):31-9.Links
Is recreational ecstasy (MDMA) use associated with higher levels of depressive symptoms?
Guillot C.

University of Southern Mississippi Hattiesburg, MS, USA. casey.guillot@usm.edu

Due to potential serotonergic deficits, 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA or Ecstasy) may cause long-term mood disruptions in recreational Ecstasy users. The purpose of this review is to evaluate the evidence for a relationship between recreational Ecstasy use and higher levels of depressive symptoms. Eleven out of 22 studies initially have reported significantly higher depression scores in Ecstasy users in comparison to control participants. However, only three studies ultimately have revealed significantly higher depression scores in comparison to cannabis or polydrug controls. Furthermore, most studies have suffered from methodological weaknesses, and the levels of depressive symptoms that have been found in Ecstasy users have not been shown to be much higher than those found in normative groups. The evidence for an association specifically between Ecstasy use and higher levels of depressive symptoms is currently unconvincing, but the frequent concomitant use of Ecstasy and other illicit drugs has been shown to be associated with higher levels of depressive symptoms. Possible causes include polydrug use in general, MDMA-induced serotonergic deficits, individual effects of illicit drugs besides Ecstasy, combined effects of MDMA and other illicit drugs, and preexisting differences in the levels of depressive symptoms in Ecstasy users.

PMID: 17523583 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Drug Alcohol Depend. 2007 Mar 16;87(2-3):303-11. Epub 2006 Oct 30.Click here to read Click here to read Links
Anxiety, depression, and behavioral symptoms of executive dysfunction in ecstasy users: contributions of polydrug use.
Medina KL, Shear PK.

Department of Psychiatry, University of California at San Diego, 3350 La Jolla Village Drive (151B), San Diego, CA 92161, USA. klmedina@ucsd.edu

BACKGROUND: Given ecstasy's (MDMA) potential serotonergic neurotoxicity, it is plausible that regular ecstasy users would have an elevated prevalence of behavioral executive dysfunction or mood symptoms. However, recent studies have found that the relationship between ecstasy use and psychological symptoms was no longer significant after controlling for marijuana use (e.g., Morgan et al., 2002). The goal of the present study was to examine the relationship between ecstasy exposure and self-reported executive functioning and psychological symptoms after controlling for gender, ethnicity, and other drug use. METHODS: Data were collected from 65 men and women with a wide range of ecstasy use (including 17 marijuana-using controls). Participants were administered the Frontal Systems Behavioral Scale, State-Trait Anxiety Inventory for adults, and the Beck Depression Inventory-2nd edition. RESULTS: Although 19-63% of the ecstasy users demonstrated clinically elevated psychological symptoms, frequency of ecstasy use did not predict the psychological symptoms. No gender differences or interactions were observed. CONCLUSIONS: These results revealed that, although ecstasy users demonstrate elevated levels of psychological symptoms and executive dysfunction, these symptoms are not statistically associated with their ecstasy consumption. Instead, other drug use (alcohol, marijuana, opioids, and inhalants) significantly predict psychological symptoms in this sample of polydrug users.

PMID: 17074449 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


So if we're going to discuss this we must be sure that we've got our facts straight. So.......have you used other drugs? If so would you mind revealing what they are. Ecstacy is one of the most harmless substances compared to others such as alcohol, tabacco (and tomacco), amphetamine, ketamine, cocaine and so on.

An interesting read can be found in The Lancet

Lancet. 2007 Mar 24;369(9566):1047-53.Click here to read Links

Development of a rational scale to assess the harm of drugs of potential misuse.
Nutt D, King LA, Saulsbury W, Blakemore C.

Psychopharmacology Unit, University of Bristol, Bristol, UK. david.j.nutt@bristol.ac.uk

Drug misuse and abuse are major health problems. Harmful drugs are regulated according to classification systems that purport to relate to the harms and risks of each drug. However, the methodology and processes underlying classification systems are generally neither specified nor transparent, which reduces confidence in their accuracy and undermines health education messages. We developed and explored the feasibility of the use of a nine-category matrix of harm, with an expert delphic procedure, to assess the harms of a range of illicit drugs in an evidence-based fashion. We also included five legal drugs of misuse (alcohol, khat, solvents, alkyl nitrites, and tobacco) and one that has since been classified (ketamine) for reference. The process proved practicable, and yielded roughly similar scores and rankings of drug harm when used by two separate groups of experts. The ranking of drugs produced by our assessment of harm differed from those used by current regulatory systems. Our methodology offers a systematic framework and process that could be used by national and international regulatory bodies to assess the harm of current and future drugs of abuse.

PMID: 17382831 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


here's a table from the above paper placing Ecstacy in position 18

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:~ talking about a paradigm shift. I really expected MDMA to be in the top 3 here.




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