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#1 Ghostrider

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:27 AM


So after trying three *racetams (Piracetam, Oxiracetam, and Aniracetam) and not sure if I found any effect or not, I decided to shell out $80 and go for the supposedly most powerful *racetam of them all, Phenylpiracetam. Why did I decide to try it after striking out on three *racetams previous? This one is banned by the Olympics, so you know it must be good. Yes, I do notice an effect and yes, so far it is pretty good. I have only been using it for two days now, consecutively, yesterday at 200 mg and today at 100 mg. I do not plan to use it daily, but mostly during the weekends and maybe once or twice during the week. I am curious though, has anyone who has noticed an effect from this *racetam built up any tolerance? I will give more details later, but so far, so good. Feels like a productive study drug, similar to caffeine, but feels cleaner, although it kept me up until 3 AM last night (I took the second 100 mg dose too late in the day.) I think that the 100 mg that I took this morning is worn-off by now.

Edited by Ghostrider, 14 April 2008 - 03:28 AM.


#2 Lurker

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 04:40 AM

So after trying three *racetams (Piracetam, Oxiracetam, and Aniracetam) and not sure if I found any effect or not, I decided to shell out $80 and go for the supposedly most powerful *racetam of them all, Phenylpiracetam. Why did I decide to try it after striking out on three *racetams previous? This one is banned by the Olympics, so you know it must be good. Yes, I do notice an effect and yes, so far it is pretty good. I have only been using it for two days now, consecutively, yesterday at 200 mg and today at 100 mg. I do not plan to use it daily, but mostly during the weekends and maybe once or twice during the week. I am curious though, has anyone who has noticed an effect from this *racetam built up any tolerance? I will give more details later, but so far, so good. Feels like a productive study drug, similar to caffeine, but feels cleaner, although it kept me up until 3 AM last night (I took the second 100 mg dose too late in the day.) I think that the 100 mg that I took this morning is worn-off by now.


There have been anecdotal reports of people experiencing tolerance with this substance, and yes, it does make it harder to sleep. IMO it feels more like caffiene then modafinil does, but less jittery then caffiene, and from personal experience, I think this substance has usefulness in enchancing a fitness/exercise regimin. Should be careful with this, there is a lack of research on adverse health affects.

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#3 Ghostrider

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 05:47 AM

There have been anecdotal reports of people experiencing tolerance with this substance, and yes, it does make it harder to sleep. IMO it feels more like caffiene then modafinil does, but less jittery then caffiene, and from personal experience, I think this substance has usefulness in enchancing a fitness/exercise regimin. Should be careful with this, there is a lack of research on adverse health affects.


Yeah, that's why I do not plan to use it every day. Although it does seem safe, legal to buy in the US where modafinil is illegal to buy without a prescription. You think modafinil produces a similar effect? I tried Adrafinil a while ago and I hated it. Have you tried prampiracetam? If so how does it compare, that might be another nootropic to look into.

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 06:48 AM

There have been anecdotal reports of people experiencing tolerance with this substance, and yes, it does make it harder to sleep. IMO it feels more like caffiene then modafinil does, but less jittery then caffiene, and from personal experience, I think this substance has usefulness in enchancing a fitness/exercise regimin. Should be careful with this, there is a lack of research on adverse health affects.


Yeah, that's why I do not plan to use it every day. Although it does seem safe, legal to buy in the US where modafinil is illegal to buy without a prescription. You think modafinil produces a similar effect? I tried Adrafinil a while ago and I hated it. Have you tried prampiracetam? If so how does it compare, that might be another nootropic to look into.


Have not tried prampiracetam, have tried piracetam, (and would imagine that you could achieve the same thing with a large dose of it), and didn't have any conclusive effects, although alot of the researched data on it suggets that benifits take effect after time. With the cost and low risk factor of piracetam, i take it with the same mindset as I take ginko biloba.

As for the safety of phenylpiracatam, I would just becareful of broad health issues related to stimulating things, like blood pressure.

The reason why i put modafinil and caffiene, in the same effect catagory as phenylpiracetam is the fact that they're all subtle, have low abuse potential, and have easily noticable effects as nootropics.

#5 Ghostrider

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 06:55 AM

The reason why i put modafinil and caffiene, in the same effect catagory as phenylpiracetam is the fact that they're all subtle, have low abuse potential, and have easily noticable effects as nootropics.


I take caffeine before exams and it provides a nice mental boost, but if I consume it regularly, it loses all effect and starts to lower my overall energy level. It just feels really dirty compared to phenylpiracetam. Since you have taken modafinil, how does it compare to phenylpiracetam? Modafinil is a schedule IV substance while phenylpiracetam is a supplement. Modafinil seems like it would be the most potent out of those three and probably would interfere with sleep more than phenylpiracetam / caffeine since it has a longer half-life and is engineered to keep people awake.

#6 graatch

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:07 AM

engineering (girders, the corporeal, concrete) and psychopharm (veils, shadows, dreams, ontological error and guesswork) should not be mentioned together ;-) An' don't let anyone tell ya no different!

#7 Lurker

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:31 AM

The reason why i put modafinil and caffiene, in the same effect catagory as phenylpiracetam is the fact that they're all subtle, have low abuse potential, and have easily noticable effects as nootropics.


I take caffeine before exams and it provides a nice mental boost, but if I consume it regularly, it loses all effect and starts to lower my overall energy level. It just feels really dirty compared to phenylpiracetam. Since you have taken modafinil, how does it compare to phenylpiracetam? Modafinil is a schedule IV substance while phenylpiracetam is a supplement. Modafinil seems like it would be the most potent out of those three and probably would interfere with sleep more than phenylpiracetam / caffeine since it has a longer half-life and is engineered to keep people awake.


Modafinil seems to help with mood. I believe that I find Modafinil more noticiable for dealing with focus problems related to depression and mood, there is also slight euphoria at times. It would make sense that if either of those aren't a problem for you, you may find little/less benifit from it, and it may even induce a side affect like anxiety.

I have not taken phenylpiracetam that frequently, but it's effects seem to help focus unrelated to mood, a feeling i get similar when taking caffiene, although caffiene certainly has noticable inconviences, like sweating, anxiety, jitteryness. I have only taken it in doses of phenylpiractam 100mg, and caffiene dosages aren't standardized, so I do not consider myself experienced with this yet.

Simply sharing any experiences you have (are having) with phenylpiracetam are helpful, since the information on it is pretty scare.

#8 Ghostrider

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:45 AM

engineering (girders, the corporeal, concrete) and psychopharm (veils, shadows, dreams, ontological error and guesswork) should not be mentioned together ;-) An' don't let anyone tell ya no different!


Yeah, that's true....let's use the word "manufactured" instead.

#9 Ghostrider

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 07:58 AM

Modafinil seems to help with mood. I believe that I find Modafinil more noticiable for dealing with focus problems related to depression and mood, there is also slight euphoria at times. It would make sense that if either of those aren't a problem for you, you may find little/less benifit from it, and it may even induce a side affect like anxiety.

I have not taken phenylpiracetam that frequently, but it's effects seem to help focus unrelated to mood, a feeling i get similar when taking caffiene, although caffiene certainly has noticable inconviences, like sweating, anxiety, jitteryness. I have only taken it in doses of phenylpiractam 100mg, and caffiene dosages aren't standardized, so I do not consider myself experienced with this yet.

Simply sharing any experiences you have (are having) with phenylpiracetam are helpful, since the information on it is pretty scare.


I did feel very good while taking phenylpiracetam. I had this constant "Let's get to work!" attitude. However, the focus might have been improved only a little if at all...it was more just having tons of mental energy. I never felt tired, and I could just keep studying forever. However, I still wanted to do other things such as surfing the web as I am doing now (or enjoying the weather outside). So I had lots of energy, like caffeine provides, but it just felt more clean. Anxiety might be up a little, but pretty negligible. I did feel slightly jittery at 200 mg, at least physically, I had a tendency to keep bouncing my foot that I did not have at 100 mg, so that was probably over-stimulation. 100 mg felt smooth, I just need to perfect the dosing and timing.

I have not heard of modafinil producing euphoria. I thought that was something only attributed to amphetamine meds.

Anyway, I would be interested to hear how pramracetam compares to phenylpiracetam and the other racetams. I thought I read somewhere that phenyl is better for exercise / physical stuff and pramracetam is more of a study drug...could be wrong.

#10 stargazer

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 12:10 PM

I've used phenylpiracetam up to 800mg/day and it certainly has an effect on the CNS. It feels cleaner than caffeine and even cleaner than methylphenidate though the motivation effect isn't quite as strong. I unfortunately can't evaluate their effects to a high degree since I use them all simultaneously. Phenylpiracetam and pramiracetam gives very different effects for me with phenyl being the more potent one.

My "stack":

50mg ritalin

400mg (average) phenylpiracetam

150mg modafinil

I'll soon be adding cx516 into the mix.

Edited by stargazer, 14 April 2008 - 12:11 PM.


#11 Lurker

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 02:45 PM

Modafinil seems to help with mood. I believe that I find Modafinil more noticiable for dealing with focus problems related to depression and mood, there is also slight euphoria at times. It would make sense that if either of those aren't a problem for you, you may find little/less benifit from it, and it may even induce a side affect like anxiety.

I have not taken phenylpiracetam that frequently, but it's effects seem to help focus unrelated to mood, a feeling i get similar when taking caffiene, although caffiene certainly has noticable inconviences, like sweating, anxiety, jitteryness. I have only taken it in doses of phenylpiractam 100mg, and caffiene dosages aren't standardized, so I do not consider myself experienced with this yet.

Simply sharing any experiences you have (are having) with phenylpiracetam are helpful, since the information on it is pretty scare.


I did feel very good while taking phenylpiracetam. I had this constant "Let's get to work!" attitude. However, the focus might have been improved only a little if at all...it was more just having tons of mental energy. I never felt tired, and I could just keep studying forever. However, I still wanted to do other things such as surfing the web as I am doing now (or enjoying the weather outside). So I had lots of energy, like caffeine provides, but it just felt more clean. Anxiety might be up a little, but pretty negligible. I did feel slightly jittery at 200 mg, at least physically, I had a tendency to keep bouncing my foot that I did not have at 100 mg, so that was probably over-stimulation. 100 mg felt smooth, I just need to perfect the dosing and timing.

I have not heard of modafinil producing euphoria. I thought that was something only attributed to amphetamine meds.

Anyway, I would be interested to hear how pramracetam compares to phenylpiracetam and the other racetams. I thought I read somewhere that phenyl is better for exercise / physical stuff and pramracetam is more of a study drug...could be wrong.


This is the FDA's approval document of Modafinil/Armodafinil, it has very comprehensive info on it's side effects and mechanism of action.

http://www.accessdat...s013s018lbl.pdf

Lines of interest (28-62) explains technical.

In in vitro binding studies, modafinil binds to
the dopamine reuptake site and causes an increase in extracellular dopamine, but no
increase in dopamine release. Modafinil is reinforcing, as evidenced by its selfadministration
in monkeys previously trained to self-administer cocaine.

838-841


The euphoria from Modafinil is virtually non existent compared to that experienced in amphetamines.

Edited by chrono, 26 October 2010 - 07:21 AM.
updated dead link


#12 Lurker

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:17 PM

There is not doubt that phenlypiracetam has the most pronounced stimulating effect out of all the known racitams. Most of the anecdotal accounts I have read lead me to believe it is the only one with true stimulating qualities.

#13 Ghostrider

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 03:51 PM

I've used phenylpiracetam up to 800mg/day and it certainly has an effect on the CNS. It feels cleaner than caffeine and even cleaner than methylphenidate though the motivation effect isn't quite as strong. I unfortunately can't evaluate their effects to a high degree since I use them all simultaneously. Phenylpiracetam and pramiracetam gives very different effects for me with phenyl being the more potent one.

My "stack":

50mg ritalin

400mg (average) phenylpiracetam

150mg modafinil

I'll soon be adding cx516 into the mix.


I would be a bit careful about mixing those substances...not sure about the interactions.

#14 Lurker

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 04:25 PM

http://www.imminst.o...phenylpiracetam

This is the first place where I noticed tolerance was mentioned.

#15 ortcloud

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 04:28 PM

I've used phenylpiracetam up to 800mg/day and it certainly has an effect on the CNS. It feels cleaner than caffeine and even cleaner than methylphenidate though the motivation effect isn't quite as strong. I unfortunately can't evaluate their effects to a high degree since I use them all simultaneously. Phenylpiracetam and pramiracetam gives very different effects for me with phenyl being the more potent one.

My "stack":

50mg ritalin

400mg (average) phenylpiracetam

150mg modafinil

Some people were mentioning a motivation effect when they tried ALCAR Arginate.
Maybe this would be interesting to stack with phenylpiracetam

Also, anybody try stacking sulbuthiamine with phenylpiracetam ?

Or maybe even all 3 ?

#16 Ghostrider

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 08:45 PM

I've used phenylpiracetam up to 800mg/day and it certainly has an effect on the CNS. It feels cleaner than caffeine and even cleaner than methylphenidate though the motivation effect isn't quite as strong. I unfortunately can't evaluate their effects to a high degree since I use them all simultaneously. Phenylpiracetam and pramiracetam gives very different effects for me with phenyl being the more potent one.

My "stack":

50mg ritalin

400mg (average) phenylpiracetam

150mg modafinil

Some people were mentioning a motivation effect when they tried ALCAR Arginate.
Maybe this would be interesting to stack with phenylpiracetam

Also, anybody try stacking sulbuthiamine with phenylpiracetam ?

Or maybe even all 3 ?


I do stack it with ALCAR and ALCAR alone does give me a little bit of an energy boost. Phenylpiracetam is more noticable though. Actually, phenylpiracetam and ALCAR are the only nootropics that I which give a noticeable cognitive improvement for me. ALCAR is a bit more indirect, but it still helps. All the other noots that I have tried including sulbuthiamine give no noticeable benefit, but they may have positive long-term effects which I did not notice.

#17 pocketsdeep

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 09:19 PM

I recently shelled out $75 on a bottle of phenylracetam from Relentless Improvement and will report back my experience once I try my first dose. I just took my first dose of 200mg sulbutiamine about 40 mins ago with a meal and haven't noticed any effect yet.

#18 Ghostrider

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 12:26 AM

I recently shelled out $75 on a bottle of phenylracetam from Relentless Improvement and will report back my experience once I try my first dose. I just took my first dose of 200mg sulbutiamine about 40 mins ago with a meal and haven't noticed any effect yet.


Yeah, I did not notice any effect at all from sulbutiamine, as I mentioned above. How did you get your bottle for $5 cheaper? Mine came to $80 including shipping.

#19 pocketsdeep

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 01:24 AM

I recently shelled out $75 on a bottle of phenylracetam from Relentless Improvement and will report back my experience once I try my first dose. I just took my first dose of 200mg sulbutiamine about 40 mins ago with a meal and haven't noticed any effect yet.


Yeah, I did not notice any effect at all from sulbutiamine, as I mentioned above. How did you get your bottle for $5 cheaper? Mine came to $80 including shipping.


Actually I spent $72.99 plus tax and got free shipping since I spent over $150. I also felt nothing from sulbutiamine but I'll probably increase my dose from 200mg to 400mg tomorrow. Do you guys think its OK to take 200mg in the morning and then add another 200mg in the evening or is it best to take everything at once early in the day?

#20 stargazer

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 08:24 AM

I've used phenylpiracetam up to 800mg/day and it certainly has an effect on the CNS. It feels cleaner than caffeine and even cleaner than methylphenidate though the motivation effect isn't quite as strong. I unfortunately can't evaluate their effects to a high degree since I use them all simultaneously. Phenylpiracetam and pramiracetam gives very different effects for me with phenyl being the more potent one.

My "stack":

50mg ritalin

400mg (average) phenylpiracetam

150mg modafinil

I'll soon be adding cx516 into the mix.


I would be a bit careful about mixing those substances...not sure about the interactions.


Indeed, I am somewhat weary of that I'm playing with my health to a certain degree. Unfortunately for me without stimulants I become apathetic, stopping medication is simply not an option even though I would love to do so. I'm phasing off phenylpiracetam since I have no idea at all how it excerts it's effects in the brain and with modafinil phenyl isn't really needed. If you have any knowledge/theory of unhealthy interactions between the different chemicals feel free to enlighten me, I would be very grateful :). Thanks for your concern, Ghostrider.

#21 Ghostrider

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 12:54 AM

I've used phenylpiracetam up to 800mg/day and it certainly has an effect on the CNS. It feels cleaner than caffeine and even cleaner than methylphenidate though the motivation effect isn't quite as strong. I unfortunately can't evaluate their effects to a high degree since I use them all simultaneously. Phenylpiracetam and pramiracetam gives very different effects for me with phenyl being the more potent one.

My "stack":

50mg ritalin

400mg (average) phenylpiracetam

150mg modafinil

I'll soon be adding cx516 into the mix.


I would be a bit careful about mixing those substances...not sure about the interactions.


Indeed, I am somewhat weary of that I'm playing with my health to a certain degree. Unfortunately for me without stimulants I become apathetic, stopping medication is simply not an option even though I would love to do so. I'm phasing off phenylpiracetam since I have no idea at all how it excerts it's effects in the brain and with modafinil phenyl isn't really needed. If you have any knowledge/theory of unhealthy interactions between the different chemicals feel free to enlighten me, I would be very grateful :). Thanks for your concern, Ghostrider.


I mentioned in my previous post that I am not sure about the interactions. But I do know that they all change the way the mind works, and therefore possibly in conflicting ways...not sure. I have never used modafinil so I am not sure how it compares to phenylpiracetam. However, like piracetam, the mechanism of action is unknown for both phenylpiracetam as well as modafinil.

#22 Lurker

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 02:07 AM

Simply put, there is a lack of information or large scale research on it, except for small scale (some may argue questionable) russian studies.

#23 Ghostrider

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 02:48 AM

Simply put, there is a lack of information or large scale research on it, except for small scale (some may argue questionable) russian studies.


Yeah, I am not sure which is safer phenylpiracetam or modafinil. Possibly modafinil because it has had more studies, but it also seems more potent.

#24 Ghostrider

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 02:37 AM

I've used phenylpiracetam up to 800mg/day and it certainly has an effect on the CNS. It feels cleaner than caffeine and even cleaner than methylphenidate though the motivation effect isn't quite as strong. I unfortunately can't evaluate their effects to a high degree since I use them all simultaneously. Phenylpiracetam and pramiracetam gives very different effects for me with phenyl being the more potent one.

My "stack":

50mg ritalin

400mg (average) phenylpiracetam

150mg modafinil

I'll soon be adding cx516 into the mix.


By the way, where do you get cx516?

#25 DanielSon

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 09:03 PM

I've used phenylpiracetam up to 800mg/day and it certainly has an effect on the CNS. It feels cleaner than caffeine and even cleaner than methylphenidate though the motivation effect isn't quite as strong. I unfortunately can't evaluate their effects to a high degree since I use them all simultaneously. Phenylpiracetam and pramiracetam gives very different effects for me with phenyl being the more potent one.

My "stack":

50mg ritalin

400mg (average) phenylpiracetam

150mg modafinil

I'll soon be adding cx516 into the mix.


By the way, where do you get cx516?



*bump*

#26 pocketsdeep

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 03:06 AM

I took 100mg of phenylpiracetam for the first time earlier today and it did nothing. Literally nothing. Its been a couple of hours and I have a weird headache where it only hurts when I move or shake my head and I normally don't get headaches.

My friend took 400mg (first time trying it) and he basically felt suble to no effects as well. Neither one of our experience was anywhere close to what other people reported feeling with phenylpiracetam. Anyway, thats our story.

#27 Ghostrider

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 04:48 AM

I took 100mg of phenylpiracetam for the first time earlier today and it did nothing. Literally nothing. Its been a couple of hours and I have a weird headache where it only hurts when I move or shake my head and I normally don't get headaches.

My friend took 400mg (first time trying it) and he basically felt suble to no effects as well. Neither one of our experience was anywhere close to what other people reported feeling with phenylpiracetam. Anyway, thats our story.


Humm...I hope my report did not encourage you to buy it. I made the same mistake when I joined this forum. Many people were ranting and raving about piracetam or vincopetine, I tried both and they did nothing for me. Honestly, of all the supplements that I have tried, phenylpiracetam is the only one where I am pretty confident that it has an acute effect (although I have only used it three times since I received it a week ago). I did try it last Wednesday and for about the first 1.5-2 hours, I felt nothing. Then it kicked in. Previously, I felt an effect within 1 hour of taking it. I think the reason why is that I took it on a full stomach. So that may have slowed down the absorption rate a bit. It's true that it could have been placebo on all three occasions, but it also affected my sleep...I stayed up about 2 hours later than usual and last Sunday, I only got about 5-6 hours of sleep. On that little sleep, normally I am dead tried, but I was instead very productive. The only other substance which I think might be doing something is ALCAR, I think I notice the mental energy boost from this, but more noticeably, my physical endurance when biking has improved. I am also taking fish oil and some other stuff, but I suspect that the boost is mostly from the ALCAR.

The problem with supplements is that the effects vary from person to person, otherwise if they had consistent positive effects, they would have become drugs or at least sold at Starbucks a long time ago. For that reason I would really encourage health stores which sell nootropics to offer smaller quantities of their products for evaluation.

Edited by Ghostrider, 19 April 2008 - 05:01 AM.


#28 Ghostrider

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 03:13 AM

Well, I took 200 mg more of phenylpiracetam this morning and to be honest, I really do not feel all that much compared to the previous three times that I took it. Maybe something, but very subtle, no increased energy or feeling of "goodness" as I had experienced earlier. On Wednesday, I felt a delayed, although still noticeable effect. Today, the effect was not even noticeable. I notice the the same effect happens when I use a caffeinated beverage -- tea or coffee for a cognitive boost. I get a nice boost - increase in energy and focus - on the first day or two, but when used consecutively, the effect really starts to taper off. I plan to take 100 mg tomorrow, hopefully I the nice boost that I have been used to will come back. I will try taking on an empty stomach instead of a full stomach. Maybe the food that I ate interfered somehow...otherwise it was fun while it lasted. No negative side effects noticed so far.

#29 Ghostrider

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Posted 20 April 2008 - 08:25 PM

I took 100 mg this morning on an empty stomach and the nice energy boost came back. I despite the instructions on the bottle, I think this stuff is best taken on an empty stomach.

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#30 Lurker

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Posted 24 April 2008 - 05:42 PM

It's possible that the tolerance people have from this is a cross-tolerance from a related stimulant? This is just speculation.

It maybe placebo or other factors, but this substance seems to have helped with my weight lifting regimine, anybody else share similar experience?




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