27 replies to this topic

[edward]

http://content.karge...roduktNr=224036

[Anthony_Loera]

This actually is quite interesting edward, I will share it with my wife who is seeing some changes while on res. (1000mg a day/124 pounds/41 yo)

Results: Corticosterone production was inhibited 47% by 50 µM resveratrol in vitro and 20% ex vivo, while progesterone production was elevated to 400% of the control value in in vitro experiments.

A

[katzenjammer]

Not exactly good news for men though, right?

[edward]

This actually is quite interesting edward, I will share it with my wife who is seeing some changes while on res. (1000mg a day/124 pounds/41 yo)

Results: Corticosterone production was inhibited 47% by 50 µM resveratrol in vitro and 20% ex vivo, while progesterone production was elevated to 400% of the control value in in vitro experiments.

A

The progesterone elevation is in vitro so who knows how that translates, plus rats adrenal system is not the best model for humans, but nonetheless its not such a good effect for males. Progesterone at high levels is kinda nasty.

[Anthony_Loera]

Estrogen and Progesterone are 2 different things.

It's my understanding that the testicular production of testosterone in a male, also creates progesterone in males, but usually at half the levels that it is produced in females.


Gynecomastia (or man-boobs) are usually developed in a prolonged estrogen exposure, not progesterone.

This is from wikipedia, as I haven't looked at this too much:

The tendency for progesterone to have a regulatory effect, the presence of progesterone receptors in many types of body tissue, and the pattern of deterioration (or tumor formation) in many of those increasing in later years when progesterone levels have dropped, is prompting widespread research into the potential value of maintaining progesterone levels in both males and females.

Of course, if someone has some links to studies, that would be more helpful than a wikipedia quote.

thanks
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 20 May 2008 - 02:41 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Some interesting tidbits from Google Scholar:

Progesterone and men, in chemo:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....v/pubmed/355585

ProGes as sedative in men and women? interesting...
http://www.sciencedi...72271a10031c5e1

Progesterone, The forgotten hormone in man:
http://www.informawo...13634215~db=all

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 20 May 2008 - 02:59 PM.

[inawe]

First I panicked. Then I tried to guess what's going on (uneducated guess).
Corticosterone "is important mainly as an intermediate in the steroidogenic pathway from pregnenolone to aldosterone".
Thus, it seems that the suppression of corticosterone affects the steroidogenic pathways keeping progesterone at high levels.
Furthermore, "in many species, including rodents, corticosterone is the principal glucocorticoid, involved in regulation of fuel metabolism, immune reactions, and stress responses. However, in humans, corticosterone is produced primarily in the zona fasciculata of the adrenal cortex. It has only weak glucocorticoid and mineralcorticoid potencies in humans".
The above is my free interpretation of what my friend Wiki was telling me. From which I conclude that contrary to what many think, I'm not a big rat. In rats, RSV prompts corticosterone to do funny things. In me, this corticosterone is just a weakling unable to do much harm.

[edward]

First I panicked. Then I tried to guess what's going on (uneducated guess).
Corticosterone "is important mainly as an intermediate in the steroidogenic pathway from pregnenolone to aldosterone".
Thus, it seems that the suppression of corticosterone affects the steroidogenic pathways keeping progesterone at high levels.
Furthermore, "in many species, including rodents, corticosterone is the principal glucocorticoid, involved in regulation of fuel metabolism, immune reactions, and stress responses. However, in humans, corticosterone is produced primarily in the zona fasciculata of the adrenal cortex. It has only weak glucocorticoid and mineralcorticoid potencies in humans".
The above is my free interpretation of what my friend Wiki was telling me. From which I conclude that contrary to what many think, I'm not a big rat. In rats, RSV prompts corticosterone to do funny things. In me, this corticosterone is just a weakling unable to do much harm.

Yes I agree the relatively mild corticosterone isssue is not a huge deal (could explain some peoples interesting anti-inflammatory and inflammatory responses to Res though as corticosterone in humans has some mild effects similar to cortisol in that respect). But the 400% increase in progesterone is not so great. You are right Anthony in that it is most often high amounts of estrogen that cause gynecomastia, however high progesterone is not benign in fact it is not good at all, increased fat storage/redistribution, moodyness and some other weird effects, I wouldn't want mine increased by 400%. Just search around on some of the bodybuilding sites about some of the steroids that increase progesterone (not just estrogen), there are even anti progesterone formulas out there to counteract these effects. Granted this 400% increase is in vitro so who knows how it translate in vivo. It definitely makes me want to check my progesterone levels the next physical.

Edited by edward, 20 May 2008 - 09:02 PM.

[speedlet]

Wait. Didn't I read something on this site about a study that showed that t-res increased testosterone levels?

What does it mean if both testosterone and progesterone levels are increased? Do they cancel each other out? Or is there some other effect?

ETA: It seems progesterone is an estrogen antagonist and can have some beneficial health effects in men, particularly for prostate cancer.

Edited by speedlet, 20 May 2008 - 09:27 PM.

[niner]

Hold on, everyone. The in vitro work was done at 50 micromolar. If you take five grams of resveratrol, you may hit 2.5 micromolar for a brief time. The results seen in the ex vivo work were a lot less scary, and although they don't state in the abstract how much resveratrol the rats got, it was probably a lot. Not only that, but rodents have much weaker conjugative metabolism toward resveratrol than we do, so they will see bigger effects than we do for the same mg/kg dose. There is nothing to worry about here unless you are taking truly massive quantities of resveratrol.

[vitaminboss]

Endocrine disruptors and rat adrenocortical function: Studies on freshly dispersed and cultured cells.

[My paper] Agnieszka Ziolkowska, Anna Belloni, Gastone Nussdorfer, Magdalena Nowak, Ludwik Malendowicz
Department of Histology and Embryology, Poznan University of Medical Sciences, PL-60781 Poznan, Poland.

The effects of four endocrine disruptors: resveratrol, diphenylolpropane (bisphenol-A; BSP), benzophenone-3 (BP3) and silymarin on the secretory and proliferative activity of rat adrenocortical cells were investigated in vitro. Resveratrol and BP3 acutely increased basal corticosterone secretion from freshly dispersed adrenocortical cells, and resveratrol and BSP enhanced ACTH-stimulated cells. The 24-h exposure to resveratrol and BP3 increased basal corticosterone production from cultured adrenocortical cells, while ACTH-stimulated secretion was increased only by resveratrol. BSP was ineffective, while silymarin decreased basal, but not ACTH-stimulated secretion. The proliferative activity of the cultured adrenocortical cells was unaffected by the tested disruptors. In conclusion, the in vitro direct effect of endocrine disruptors on adrenocortical steroidogenesis displays a great variability, which seems to depend not only on their chemical nature, but also on their dose and the duration of the exposure of the studied cells.

Reprod Biol. 2006 ;6 Suppl 1 :89-103 16967091 (P,S,E,B)



Different studies, show different results.. Maybe this one is in Vitro thats why?

[missminni]

This actually is quite interesting edward, I will share it with my wife who is seeing some changes while on res. (1000mg a day/124 pounds/41 yo)

Results: Corticosterone production was inhibited 47% by 50 µM resveratrol in vitro and 20% ex vivo, while progesterone production was elevated to 400% of the control value in in vitro experiments.

A

what changes is she seeing? I was taking about 3g a day and it dangerously lowered my estrogen. The first sign of
that was dry skin. Is she having that problem?

[Anthony_Loera]

This actually is quite interesting edward, I will share it with my wife who is seeing some changes while on res. (1000mg a day/124 pounds/41 yo)

Results: Corticosterone production was inhibited 47% by 50 µM resveratrol in vitro and 20% ex vivo, while progesterone production was elevated to 400% of the control value in in vitro experiments.

A

what changes is she seeing? I was taking about 3g a day and it dangerously lowered my estrogen. The first sign of
that was dry skin. Is she having that problem?

Hi missminni,

She is taking 500mg or 1000mg a day (depending on her mood I suppose). I just asked her this morning, and she told me this week she took only one capsule (x500) a day, although last week she was taking 2 capsules.

We believe it improved her FSH and appears to have normalized her monthly cycle. The FSH was quite dramatic and unexpected, It was first noticed when she was strictly on 500mg a day. Estrogen levels appear normal now. This is interesting as a few years ago, the estrogen level were less than normal.

At that time (3 years ago), she had to take progesterone for a few months that was prescribed by a specialist.

When we noticed the lower FSH this year, I asked her if she was sure this was the only 'change' in her diet, and she has said that it was.

She is about 124 lbs.
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 31 May 2008 - 01:13 PM.

[missminni]

This actually is quite interesting edward, I will share it with my wife who is seeing some changes while on res. (1000mg a day/124 pounds/41 yo)

Results: Corticosterone production was inhibited 47% by 50 µM resveratrol in vitro and 20% ex vivo, while progesterone production was elevated to 400% of the control value in in vitro experiments.

A

what changes is she seeing? I was taking about 3g a day and it dangerously lowered my estrogen. The first sign of
that was dry skin. Is she having that problem?

Hi missminni,

She is taking 500mg or 1000mg a day (depending on her mood I suppose). I just asked her this morning, and she told me this week she took only one capsule (x500) a day, although last week she was taking 2 capsules.

We believe it improved her FSH and appears to have normalized her monthly cycle. The FSH was quite dramatic and unexpected, It was first noticed when she was strictly on 500mg a day. Estrogen levels appear normal now. This is interesting as a few years ago, the estrogen level were less than normal.

At that time (3 years ago), she had to take progesterone for a few months that was prescribed by a specialist.

When we noticed the lower FSH this year, I asked her if she was sure this was the only 'change' in her diet, and she has said that it was.

She is about 124 lbs.
A

She is probably instinctively right to take 500mg if she has a history of low estrogen. In my case, it lowered my DHEA drastically. However I was taking 4 to 5 g a day and I weigh about 125 too. I think that in the case of cancer, high doses are necessary
to lower estrogen, as with my dog. But other than that, at least for women, I think more modest doses are a wiser course of action. I want to add that all the benefits I got from taking Resveratrol (the curing of my Mortons Nueroma being primary) remain positive whether I take resveratrol or not. It's a permanent cure, not dependent on continued use.

[Anthony_Loera]

Missminni,

I also believe that depending on what you are trying to do with resveratrol, different dosages would be in order.

My wife doesn't have a cancer problem, so I wouldn't ask her to take larger doses of resveratrol if we have seen some good changes with her 500mg/1000mg dosages. I figure she knows herself better than most, so If she switches between 500mg and 1000mg and back a few times, to see what works best, then that's a good thing.

Cheers
A

[stephen_b]

She is probably instinctively right to take 500mg if she has a history of low estrogen. In my case, it lowered my DHEA drastically.

This is interesting. I've been taking 1.5-2 grams daily of resveratrol on average with lecithin or a whey shake. My DHEA levels have also been dropping:

2007-10-02: DHEA 163 ug/dL
2008-05-16: DHEA 84 ug/dL

Drat. And I started taking DHEA recently too, at 50mg ever second day. On my LEF blood test consultation, the doctor I spoke with recommended DHEA at about 400-500 ug/dL for life extension purposes.

Stephen

Edited by stephen_b, 02 June 2008 - 07:19 PM.

[missminni]

She is probably instinctively right to take 500mg if she has a history of low estrogen. In my case, it lowered my DHEA drastically.

This is interesting. I've been taking 1.5-2 grams daily of resveratrol on average with lecithin or a whey shake. My DHEA levels have also been dropping:

2007-10-02: DHEA 163 ug/dL
2008-05-16: DHEA 84 ug/dL

Drat. And I started taking DHEA recently too, at 50mg ever second day. On my LEF blood test consultation, the doctor I spoke with recommended DHEA at about 400-500 ug/dL for life extension purposes.

Stephen

Thats a big drop. Mine went down to 15 !! can you imagine?....that's why I got eczema. The lowest a women's should be is 130 and for men, 180. That's the LOWEST.
Since May 13th, I'm taking 100 mg of DHEA (50mg 2X a day) and pregnenolone 150mg 2X a day and I am seeing a tremendous improvement in my skin quality. I will blood test again at the end of June (6 weeks) to see what the DHEA is. I have been taking resveratrol too....1 g a day but I am beginning to think it might not be such a great idea if it in fact lowers DHEA because I don't want to have to keep supplementing with DHEA. I would be interested in knowing the DHEA levels of others who are taking REsveratrol on a regular basis.
This might be the caveat of resveratrol.

[stephen_b]

Thats a big drop.

I've also for 6 months had high serum iron (199 ug/dL vs 214 ug/dL in 2007, oddly enough while having a quite low serum ferritin of 22 ng/mL). I don't know whether iron has any effect on DHEA, but it is oxidative.

Stephen

Edited by stephen_b, 02 June 2008 - 10:01 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

You have some strange things going on stephen. Any other abnormal or nearly abnormal test results, undiagnosed symptoms, health problems? Has that low ferritin produced anemia?

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 02 June 2008 - 10:12 PM.

[stephen_b]

You have some strange things going on stephen. Any other abnormal or nearly abnormal test results, undiagnosed symptoms, health problems? Has that low ferritin produced anemia?

I don't think it's produced anemia. I've gotten my run up to 6 miles and haven't noticed anything unusual. Then again, I have never had serum ferritin measured before. I am seeing an internist in a couple of days. I read that high lead can lead to high iron. I will get that Nature's first raw cocoa tested for lead. The only other measurements that fell outside of the reference interval were low serum chloride at 96 mmol/L, slightly high total cholesterol and LDL at 209 and 135 mg/dL, respectively.

My LEF consult doctor recommended more plant protein to improve LDL (and possibly supplementing with citronal), nicotinic acid for HDL, extra B vitamins for homocysteine, and 50mg DHEA daily.

Stephen

[FunkOdyssey]

You might want to also try tocotrienols (Jarrow toco-sorb) and pantethine for the LDL. Both are well-documented with clinical trials in hyperlipidemic humans.

[bixbyte]

http://content.karge...roduktNr=224036

Wait a sec, in Males if you raise your progesterone levels this will block your norestrogen levels and thus increase your testosterone levels.
Sperm count goes up.

Remember the japanese male rabbit study and RES?
They concluded that it raised their sperm level.

Progesterone is the misunderstood hormone in males.

In females, higher progesterone is good if you are in menopause and use prescription premarin creme. (?)

Hormones are very complicated.

Anybody validation?

[missminni]

http://content.karge...roduktNr=224036

Wait a sec, in Males if you raise your progesterone levels this will block your norestrogen levels and thus increase your testosterone levels.
Sperm count goes up.

Remember the japanese male rabbit study and RES?
They concluded that it raised their sperm level.

Progesterone is the misunderstood hormone in males.

In females, higher progesterone is good if you are in menopause and use prescription premarin creme. (?)

Hormones are very complicated.

Anybody validation?

In females, it lowers estrogen. Not a good thing unless you have too much estrogen and developed hormonal cancer, as in the case of my dog. Then it is a godsend. Otherwise, for women, I think resveratrol might be a double edged sword.
I noticed a definite drying of my skin after a couple of months of taking it as did two of my friends who were much younger and not menapausal. It was very noticeable. I posted about it.
I think Luminous responded that she was taking estrogen and Resveratrol simultaneously with good results.

[markymark]

http://content.karge...roduktNr=224036

Wait a sec, in Males if you raise your progesterone levels this will block your norestrogen levels and thus increase your testosterone levels.
Sperm count goes up.

Remember the japanese male rabbit study and RES?
They concluded that it raised their sperm level.

Progesterone is the misunderstood hormone in males.

In females, higher progesterone is good if you are in menopause and use prescription premarin creme. (?)

Hormones are very complicated.

Anybody validation?

I posted quite a while ago that I have the impression that RESV brings about an increase in testosterone by means of aromatase inhibition.
Hormones are very complicated indeed :-), good spoken.

I guess that a lot of postmenopausal women might benefit from a little more testosterone, since they often lack it.
However measuering blood levels or saliva of sex hormones under RESV-supplementation is best.
Also for males, I would consider this effect more beneficial than harmful.
I also raised the theory that some of the beneficial effects (mood, fitness) a lot of individuels reported here in this formum might have been caused by the increase of testosteron.

I am afraid, we have to wait for more research data on humans in this respect.

[Anthony_Loera]

I have to disagree with you Missminni, at least with a 500mg/1000mg dose.

A

http://content.karge...roduktNr=224036

Wait a sec, in Males if you raise your progesterone levels this will block your norestrogen levels and thus increase your testosterone levels.
Sperm count goes up.

Remember the japanese male rabbit study and RES?
They concluded that it raised their sperm level.

Progesterone is the misunderstood hormone in males.

In females, higher progesterone is good if you are in menopause and use prescription premarin creme. (?)

Hormones are very complicated.

Anybody validation?

In females, it lowers estrogen. Not a good thing unless you have too much estrogen and developed hormonal cancer, as in the case of my dog. Then it is a godsend. Otherwise, for women, I think resveratrol might be a double edged sword.
I noticed a definite drying of my skin after a couple of months of taking it as did two of my friends who were much younger and not menapausal. It was very noticeable. I posted about it.
I think Luminous responded that she was taking estrogen and Resveratrol simultaneously with good results.

[missminni]

I have to disagree with you Missminni, at least with a 500mg/1000mg dose.

A

I agree with you about the 500 to 1000mg dose. I was taking much more than that, and so were my friends
who had the same skin issue. We were all doing about 3g. I wish others who are doing Resveratrol in the 3g and
up category would check their DHEA. I am so curious as to their levels.

In females, it lowers estrogen. Not a good thing unless you have too much estrogen and developed hormonal cancer, as in the case of my dog. Then it is a godsend. Otherwise, for women, I think resveratrol might be a double edged sword.
I noticed a definite drying of my skin after a couple of months of taking it as did two of my friends who were much younger and not menapausal. It was very noticeable. I posted about it.
I think Luminous responded that she was taking estrogen and Resveratrol simultaneously with good results.

[stephen_b]

In my case, it lowered my DHEA drastically.

Missminni, you weren't also taking any of the racetams too by any chance? My line if thought is that dhea supplies choline, racetams often need to be supplemented with choline, so perhaps racetams deplete DHEA.

Stephen

[missminni]

In my case, it lowered my DHEA drastically.

Missminni, you weren't also taking any of the racetams too by any chance? My line if thought is that dhea supplies choline, racetams often need to be supplemented with choline, so perhaps racetams deplete DHEA.

Stephen

Hi Stephen,
I don't even know what racetams are. Since I wrote that post I have reconsidered other causes for my low DHEA and PReg blood tests. I can't really blame it on resveratrol since I didn't test my dhea for 8 years prior to using it. Honestly, I think my Dhea was low because I was under so much emotional stress at the time that I believe it affected my adrenal function. I jumped to
blame resveratrol prematurely since it was the only new thing I was taking at the time. Being that I knew it affected estrogen and estrogen was a hormone that affected skin I jumped to that conclusion.