23 replies to this topic

[krillin]

I like to get my vitamins and minerals through food

What are you going to do when you're elderly and don't produce enough stomach acid to absorb B12 from food?

[HaloTeK]

I like to get my vitamins and minerals through food

What are you going to do when you're elderly and don't produce enough stomach acid to absorb B12 from food?

good point, however- what about people who seem to have negative reactions to b12 - i guess you can always open up a tablet and take a smaller dose.

taking a b supplement vitamin isn't for me either- i don't feel right. and the reason why i wouldn't just take an isolated b vitamin is that it might throw off the other ones-- the ratios between vitamins are "almost" more important then the vitamins themselves.

i think i may just take a methylcobalamin supplement and put a little on my tougue every day (like 1/10th of a 500mg cap)

and krillin- do you have any idea what your protein/fat/carb percentage is these days-- I'm sure your in the camp that restricts protein to some degree for longevity benefits -- but do you also keep your fat % down? I'm starting to think that a lower fat percentage might be beneficial to keep certain types of "growth type" hormones down.

[krillin]

taking a b supplement vitamin isn't for me either- i don't feel right. and the reason why i wouldn't just take an isolated b vitamin is that it might throw off the other ones-- the ratios between vitamins are "almost" more important then the vitamins themselves.

That's always sounded like hippie mumbo jumbo to me (other than needing the methylation vitamins to offset methyl groups consumed by the metabolism of niacin), but I could be convinced by strong evidence. With B12 it is even less of a concern because of the unique pharmacokinetics. Intrinsic factor can absorb a few micrograms at high efficiency (60% for less than 5 mcg) and any excess trickles in through passive diffusion (0.5-1% for more than 500 mcg) So if you take 5 mcg, you absorb 3 mcg. If you take a whole 1 mg tablet, you only absorb 5-10 mcg. It's very hard to orally exceed the RDA by very much. That's why injections are used if one wants the NO-quenching effect to interrrupt the NO/peroxynitrite vicious cycle.

and krillin- do you have any idea what your protein/fat/carb percentage is these days-- I'm sure your in the camp that restricts protein to some degree for longevity benefits -- but do you also keep your fat % down? I'm starting to think that a lower fat percentage might be beneficial to keep certain types of "growth type" hormones down.

CRON-o-Meter says my weekly average is

56% C
30% F
14% P

I'm an endurance athlete, so I don't restrict protein and wouldn't let fat get below about 25%.

[4eva]

Not feeling right from taking a b-complex might be explained by a genetic mutation.

This is a relatively new area of medicine - getting tested for genetic mutations.

Methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase may be one to research.

[frederickson]

taking a b supplement vitamin isn't for me either- i don't feel right. and the reason why i wouldn't just take an isolated b vitamin is that it might throw off the other ones-- the ratios between vitamins are "almost" more important then the vitamins themselves.

That's always sounded like hippie mumbo jumbo to me (other than needing the methylation vitamins to offset methyl groups consumed by the metabolism of niacin), but I could be convinced by strong evidence. With B12 it is even less of a concern because of the unique pharmacokinetics. Intrinsic factor can absorb a few micrograms at high efficiency (60% for less than 5 mcg) and any excess trickles in through passive diffusion (0.5-1% for more than 500 mcg) So if you take 5 mcg, you absorb 3 mcg. If you take a whole 1 mg tablet, you only absorb 5-10 mcg. It's very hard to orally exceed the RDA by very much. That's why injections are used if one wants the NO-quenching effect to interrrupt the NO/peroxynitrite vicious cycle.

and krillin- do you have any idea what your protein/fat/carb percentage is these days-- I'm sure your in the camp that restricts protein to some degree for longevity benefits -- but do you also keep your fat % down? I'm starting to think that a lower fat percentage might be beneficial to keep certain types of "growth type" hormones down.

CRON-o-Meter says my weekly average is

56% C
30% F
14% P

I'm an endurance athlete, so I don't restrict protein and wouldn't let fat get below about 25%.

micronutrient balance is definitely NOT hippie mumbo-jumbo. just as one example, gamma tocopherol has been shown to be depleted by large amounts of alpha-tocopherol.

this is thought to be one of the reasons vitamin E has been very promising in observational studies (usually diet-derived, balanced alpha:gamma ratio) with protection against cancers, heart disease, alzheimer's, etc. and less effective in clinical trials (which exclusively have used synthetic, alpha tocopherol products).

http://www.ajcn.org/...t/full/74/6/714

[krillin]

micronutrient balance is definitely NOT hippie mumbo-jumbo. just as one example, gamma tocopherol has been shown to be depleted by large amounts of alpha-tocopherol.

this is thought to be one of the reasons vitamin E has been very promising in observational studies (usually diet-derived, balanced alpha:gamma ratio) with protection against cancers, heart disease, alzheimer's, etc. and less effective in clinical trials (which exclusively have used synthetic, alpha tocopherol products).

http://www.ajcn.org/...t/full/74/6/714

I know that. We're talking about the B vitamins. Do you know of any specific ratios that should be maintained?

[4eva]

This site explains about this relatively new area of medicine: and it mentions the deficiencies and their frequencies (I think, I have to read this site some more) .
http://nutrigenomics...2E9FCDABDD84C68

I know very little about this but have an interest in learning more as a possible method for me and my family in the future.

Because it is a relatively new field may explain why their are so many different labels for it.....personalized medicine, food genomics, nutrigenomics, genetic something, etc.....too many names to make it easy to find in one internet search.

But what little I understand is you can have a severe SNP or not so severe (can't think of the terminology right now). And that would determine what nutrients you need, what ones to avoid and how high a dose of the ones you need. And may also indicate what serious health problems you may be prone to.

I came across something about mexican men and folic acid deficiency and colon cancer having been studied and linked. But that still means that not all mexican men who don't take B9 are at risk. And so you really have to get yourself tested to know what your own genetic issues are to get a personalized supplement program just for you.

But one has to do with folic acid and MTHFr which is how the body metabolizes folic acid. That the problem with the b complex made me think this genetic testing thing might help explain why a b complex does not agree with some people. I think there are a number of different sub-issues related to MTJFr. Another one has to do with COMT and the catecholamines.

[krillin]

Here's a great read if you're interested in SNPs.

http://www.ajcn.org/...t/full/75/4/616

[4eva]

Here's a great read if you're interested in SNPs. http://www.ajcn.org/...t/full/75/4/616

I had trouble opening that site. It looked promising but when I clicked on the links it didn't have much info. I'm not sure if that is the case or it was the technical diffoculties I was having.

One site that be ne interesting to watch is SNPedia, a wiki of SNP info. It doesn't seem to be much now but if people add then that might indicate the growth n interes in this field.

I wanted to comment about some link I couldn't find again to post that mentioned how one type benefits from one form of B12 and the other type benefits from the other form. So halotek might try the other form of b12 and see if he tolerate more than a tiny amount on his tongue.

This article had some good info.

http://www.pubmedcen...i?artid=2137135

It mentions that there are 9 nutrients that are most important in the reduction of DNA damage. But it mentions only 6: retinol, E, B12, B9, CA and B3.

And the one SNP mentioned a lot - MTHFr - was referenced as being related to colon cancer risk. But once cancer starts folic acid can actually cause more harm than good. (I think that is what it said.)

Also mentions how high doses of some nutrients can.be harmful.

Its sounds promising but still so new. CNN has an article on how some gov employee sent off the same DNA sample with different questionarre info/personal health profile and got back different or very vague recommendations. Some professionals may get some training - very basic training - and use that to charge high fees for some useless feedback and tests that may or not be meaningful or easily interpreted. One source said it might be another 20 years before this stuff is really established well enough to have any kind of meaningful data to pool from.

[krillin]

I had trouble opening that site. It looked promising but when I clicked on the links it didn't have much info. I'm not sure if that is the case or it was the technical diffoculties I was having.

You should be able to see the full text. What links are you talking about?

This article had some good info.

http://www.pubmedcen...i?artid=2137135

It mentions that there are 9 nutrients that are most important in the reduction of DNA damage. But it mentions only 6: retinol, E, B12, B9, CA and B3.

Nice! The best reference in that paper is http://carcin.oxford...t/full/26/5/991.

Best genome stability:
calcium ≥1249.56 mg/day
niacin ≥25.73 mg/day
folate ≥256.50 mcg/day
retinol ≥457.48 mcg/day (1525 IU/day)
E ≥10.72 mg/day (16 IU/day)
beta carotene 4161.33–6433.12 mcg/day
B2 ≤1.84 mg/day
B5 ≤4.59 mg/day
biotin ≤18.86 mcg/day

High folate can counteract B2's harm. High folate + high B2 is about the same as low folate + low B2, but way worse than high folate + low B2.

Looks like we have some tough choices. Calcium's good for the colon but bad for the prostate. B2 revs up MTHFR, lowering homocysteine but diverting folate away from the synthesis of dTMP from dUMP, thus increasing nasty uracil incorporation in DNA. I wonder if higher doses of folate (say 400 mcg) could allow it to do both? How much biotin to take with our NaRALA?

One reference confirms that carotenoid intake has a U-curve but they unhelpfully don't report intakes.

[4eva]

I had trouble opening that site. It looked promising but when I clicked on the links it didn't have much info. I'm not sure if that is the case or it was the technical diffoculties I was having.

You should be able to see the full text. What links are you talking about?

This article had some good info. http://www.pubmedcen...i?artid=2137135 It mentions that there are 9 nutrients that are most important in the reduction of DNA damage. But it mentions only 6: retinol, E, B12, B9, CA and B3.

Nice! The best reference in that paper is http://carcin.oxford...t/full/26/5/991. Best genome stability: calcium ?1249.56 mg/day niacin ?25.73 mg/day folate ?256.50 mcg/day retinol ?457.48 mcg/day (1525 IU/day) E ?10.72 mg/day (16 IU/day) beta carotene 4161.33?6433.12 mcg/day B2 ?1.84 mg/day B5 ?4.59 mg/day biotin ?18.86 mcg/day High folate can counteract B2's harm. High folate + high B2 is about the same as low folate + low B2, but way worse than high folate + low B2. Looks like we have some tough choices. Calcium's good for the colon but bad for the prostate. B2 revs up MTHFR, lowering homocysteine but diverting folate away from the synthesis of dTMP from dUMP, thus increasing nasty uracil incorporation in DNA. I wonder if higher doses of folate (say 400 mcg) could allow it to do both? How much biotin to take with our NaRALA? One reference confirms that carotenoid intake has a U-curve but they unhelpfully don't report intakes.

In metabolic typing they say that some people need calcium and some don't. There is a test that measures cellular respiration and this I think relates to calcium. (Serum levels of C02 and 02.) Some people can hold their breath longer and it has to do with cellular respiration. (I think hyperventilating can actually change C02 and 02 levels and also change serum calcium levels. I think that may mean the body has a way of correcting this imbalance. CA can lower or counter E, which would help during a panic attack.)

I like the idea that they test something - like blood ph - and tell you what nutrient to take or not take, or what form. Blood ph has to do with the form of vitamin c. Some need mineral ascorbates some need ascorbic acid. The wrong one is supposed to through the ph out of balance. The right one brings it back into balance. Some people take some high doses of C and the right form might be a good idea for them.

I like something that can give me specific recommendations. Not everyone is the same. Some people need some aminos (5HT), for example, others might need choline.

Genetic testing identifies that and metabolic typing seems to have some tests to figure that stuff out too. And it seems both can also recommend types of foods that are good and types that are bad. You are what you eat; so why be a confused or haphazard eater.

I'm going to try that site again and see how it works for me.

[ajnast4r]

interesting, this is something ive been thinking about recently as im going to switch multi's for cost reasons... the only major difference between the two im looking at is the B vitamin amounts. ive been pretty much stuck for a week and i cant really find any solid info on desired B vitamin amounts. any input?

the first:

Thiamin (Vitamin B-1) 6 mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) 6 mg
Niacinamide (Vitamin B-3) 30 mg
Pyridoxine (Vitamin B-6) 6 mg
Folic Acid 400 mcg
Cyanocobalamin (Vitamin B-12) 25 mcg
Biotin 300 mcg
Pantothenic Acid (Vitamin B-5) 30 mg


the second:

B-1 (Thiamine) 23 mg
B-2 (Riboflavin) 25 mg
B-3 (Niacinamide, Niacin) 25 mg
B-5 (Ca. Pantothenate) 30 mg
B-6 (Pyridoxine HCL) 30 mg
Folate (Folic Acid) 400 mcg
Biotin (d-biotin) 150 mcg
B-12 (Methylcobalamin) 100 mcg

Edited by ajnast4r, 30 July 2008 - 01:35 PM.

[HaloTeK]

I just love how some study can just come out and say what is best for genome stability (and what- the conclusion that maximum genone stability leads to the greatest longevity? -- or maybe i'm wrong here to assume that genone stability isn't the only factor longevity (at least for us right now)). Isn't it also possible that you might want to have a little less than what they are recommending - and that might be beneficial in a sort of hormetic way?

This is akin to my hypothesis that it seems to be the case that there is a difference between living vigorously and living long. Look at caloric restriction. Take twins, both 40 yrs old, both 6'1 tall) ones 140 lbs (very thin) because of caloric restriction - ones 180lbs solid muscle (no fat). Which one would you rather be if you were in a nasty car accident (easy, muscled)? Which one would you rather be if both got pneumonia (easy,muscled)? NOw, the caloric restricted one barring illness, will most likely live the longer life (if you believe the studies). So, it's sometimes hard to determine what exactly is optimal for a given situation.

[4eva]

interesting, this is something ive been thinking about recently as im going to switch multi's for cost reasons... the only major difference between the two im looking at is the B vitamin amounts. ive been pretty much stuck for a week and i cant really find any solid info on desired B vitamin amounts. any input? the first: Thiamin (Vitamin B-1) 6 mg Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) 6 mg Niacinamide (Vitamin B-3) 30 mg Pyridoxine (Vitamin B-6) 6 mg Folic Acid 400 mcg Cyanocobalamin (Vitamin B-12) 25 mcg Biotin 300 mcg Pantothenic Acid (Vitamin B-5) 30 mg the second: B-1 (Thiamine) 23 mg B-2 (Riboflavin) 25 mg B-3 (Niacinamide, Niacin) 25 mg B-5 (Ca. Pantothenate) 30 mg B-6 (Pyridoxine HCL) 30 mg Folate (Folic Acid) 400 mcg Biotin (d-biotin) 150 mcg B-12 (Methylcobalamin) 100 mcg

A quick and dirty answer would be the second. I find calcium pantothenate is a better form than plain old pant acid. I also think methyl B12 is a better form too. The second has higher levels except for biotin.

The longer answer would be to try a questionairre. This site has two that are interestin. One for neuros and one for metabolic typing. They may not provide an immediate answer but give you some ideas of what things are distingushing symptoms.

http://www.drsaks.co...r_questions.php

(Click on assessment tools liks for other questionairres.)

I guess my point of these questionairres is to say that there is a way that some docs look at your medical history to get a sense about what "type" you are. And you might be able to get a handle on this to come closer to understanding your own nutritional needs (through some research, of course).

[4eva]

Krillin, I looked over that link you posted.

I somehow looked into one or two links and only got the intro para with the DRI.

It was still very slow to load but I was able to read a lot more of it.

But like the info and the fact that it is organized by nutrients. Other sites don't organize the SNPs that way.

I tried to download it but couldn't. Oh well.

I think I got some good leads to follow up on from that site.

[krillin]

I just love how some study can just come out and say what is best for genome stability (and what- the conclusion that maximum genone stability leads to the greatest longevity? -- or maybe i'm wrong here to assume that genone stability isn't the only factor longevity (at least for us right now)). Isn't it also possible that you might want to have a little less than what they are recommending - and that might be beneficial in a sort of hormetic way?

Maximizing genomic stability will prevent cancer and have a curve-squaring effect on longevity. There's no reason not to try.

I came away with a different message than you: I'm going to have to cut dosages. A carrot a day is pushing my beta carotene too high. B2 and B5 may have to be dropped altogether. I'll keep calcium below 1000 mg since I have a family history of prostate cancer. I take a heavy dose of NaRALA, so biotin can't be dropped entirely. Determining the minimum dose may not be possible though. Recommendations are all over the place.

Zempleni et al.
600 mg NaRALA * 0.7 mg RALA/mg NaRALA * mol RALA/206.33 g RALA * 2 mol biotin/15.6 mol RALA * 244.31 g biotin/mol = 64 mg biotin.

Bulk Nutrition and LEF say 1%, or 4.2 mg biotin.

Doctor's Best uses 150 mcg/100 mg, or 630 mcg biotin.

AOR uses 100 mcg/150 mg, or 280 mcg biotin. So using the peer pressure + wishful thinking + atmospheric analysis (pulled out of the air) decision-making method, I'll probably cut back from 1000 mcg to 300 mcg, since that's as small as the tabs come.

J Nutr. 1997 Sep;127(9):1776-81.
Lipoic acid reduces the activities of biotin-dependent carboxylases in rat liver.
Zempleni J, Trusty TA, Mock DM.
Department of Pediatrics, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences and the Arkansas Children's Hospital Research Institute, Little Rock, AR 72202, USA.

In the past, lipoic acid has been administered to patients and test animals as therapy for diabetic neuropathy and various intoxications. Lipoic acid and the vitamin biotin have structural similarities. We sought to determine whether the chronic administration of lipoic acid affects the activities of biotin-dependent carboxylases. For 28 d, rats received daily intraperitoneal injections of one of the following: 1) a small dose of lipoic acid [4.3 micromol/( kg.d)]; 2) a large dose of lipoic acid [15.6 micromol/(kg.d)]; or 3) a large dose of lipoic acid plus biotin [15.6 and 2.0 micromol/(kg.d), respectively]. Another group received n-hexanoic acid [14.5 micromol/(kg.d)], which has structural similarities to lipoic acid and biotin and thus served as a control for the specificity of lipoic acid. A fifth group received phosphatidylcholine in saline injections and served as the vehicle control. The rat livers were assayed for the activities of acetyl-CoA carboxylase, pyruvate carboxylase, propionyl-CoA carboxylase, and beta-methylcrotonyl-CoA carboxylase. Urine was analyzed for lipoic acid; serum was analyzed for indicators of liver damage and metabolic aberrations. The mean activities of pyruvate carboxylase and beta-methylcrotonyl-CoA carboxylase were 28-36% lower in the lipoic acid-treated rats compared with vehicle controls (P < 0.05). Rats treated with lipoic acid plus biotin had normal carboxylase activities. Carboxylase activities in livers of n-hexanoic acid-treated rats were normal despite some evidence of liver injury. Propionyl-CoA carboxylase and acetyl-CoA carboxylase were not significantly affected by administration of lipoic acid. This study provides evidence consistent with the hypothesis that chronic administration of lipoic acid lowers the activities of pyruvate carboxylase and beta-methylcrotonyl-CoA carboxylase in vivo by competing with biotin.

PMID: 9278559

[Dmitri]

I had trouble opening that site. It looked promising but when I clicked on the links it didn't have much info. I'm not sure if that is the case or it was the technical diffoculties I was having.

You should be able to see the full text. What links are you talking about?

This article had some good info.

http://www.pubmedcen...i?artid=2137135

It mentions that there are 9 nutrients that are most important in the reduction of DNA damage. But it mentions only 6: retinol, E, B12, B9, CA and B3.

Nice! The best reference in that paper is http://carcin.oxford...t/full/26/5/991.

Best genome stability:
calcium ≥1249.56 mg/day
niacin ≥25.73 mg/day
folate ≥256.50 mcg/day
retinol ≥457.48 mcg/day (1525 IU/day)
E ≥10.72 mg/day (16 IU/day)
beta carotene 4161.33–6433.12 mcg/day
B2 ≤1.84 mg/day
B5 ≤4.59 mg/day
biotin ≤18.86 mcg/day

High folate can counteract B2's harm. High folate + high B2 is about the same as low folate + low B2, but way worse than high folate + low B2.

Looks like we have some tough choices. Calcium's good for the colon but bad for the prostate. B2 revs up MTHFR, lowering homocysteine but diverting folate away from the synthesis of dTMP from dUMP, thus increasing nasty uracil incorporation in DNA. I wonder if higher doses of folate (say 400 mcg) could allow it to do both? How much biotin to take with our NaRALA?

One reference confirms that carotenoid intake has a U-curve but they unhelpfully don't report intakes.

So are the following values safe? I have seen many of these values on B-Complex Vitamins:

GNC Vitamin B-COMPLEX 50
Vitamin B-1 (as Thiamin Mononitrate) 50 mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) 50 mg
Niacin (as Niacinamide) 50 mg
Vitamin B-6 (as Pyridoxine Hydrochloride) 50 mg
Folic Acid 400 mcg
Vitamin B12 (as Cyanocobalamin) 50 mcg
Biotin - 50 mcg
Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium d-Pantothenate) 50 mg
Choline Bitartrate 50 mg
Inositol 50 mg
para-Aminobenzoic Acid (PABA) 50 mg

There are others that called B-Complex 100 or 150, but I think those are way too high. My mother wants to buy this supplement, which is why I ask if the values are good?

[krillin]

So are the following values safe? I have seen many of these values on B-Complex Vitamins:

GNC Vitamin B-COMPLEX 50
Vitamin B-1 (as Thiamin Mononitrate) 50 mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) 50 mg
Niacin (as Niacinamide) 50 mg
Vitamin B-6 (as Pyridoxine Hydrochloride) 50 mg
Folic Acid 400 mcg
Vitamin B12 (as Cyanocobalamin) 50 mcg
Biotin - 50 mcg
Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium d-Pantothenate) 50 mg
Choline Bitartrate 50 mg
Inositol 50 mg
para-Aminobenzoic Acid (PABA) 50 mg

There are others that called B-Complex 100 or 150, but I think those are way too high. My mother wants to buy this supplement, which is why I ask if the values are good?

Not good. Niacinamide is probably bad if you want to take resveratrol. Take folinic acid instead of folic acid to avoid unmetabolized folic acid floating around in your system. The B2 and B5 are probably OK, since the harmful effect seems to level off early and it's hard to get yourself into the lowest tertile with a reasonable diet anyway.

[Dmitri]

So are the following values safe? I have seen many of these values on B-Complex Vitamins:

GNC Vitamin B-COMPLEX 50
Vitamin B-1 (as Thiamin Mononitrate) 50 mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) 50 mg
Niacin (as Niacinamide) 50 mg
Vitamin B-6 (as Pyridoxine Hydrochloride) 50 mg
Folic Acid 400 mcg
Vitamin B12 (as Cyanocobalamin) 50 mcg
Biotin - 50 mcg
Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium d-Pantothenate) 50 mg
Choline Bitartrate 50 mg
Inositol 50 mg
para-Aminobenzoic Acid (PABA) 50 mg

There are others that called B-Complex 100 or 150, but I think those are way too high. My mother wants to buy this supplement, which is why I ask if the values are good?

Not good. Niacinamide is probably bad if you want to take resveratrol. Take folinic acid instead of folic acid to avoid unmetabolized folic acid floating around in your system. The B2 and B5 are probably OK, since the harmful effect seems to level off early and it's hard to get yourself into the lowest tertile with a reasonable diet anyway.

No she doesn't take res, she's not a Immortalist, she merely does it to be healthy. As I mentioned on another post she only takes Vitamin D, K, E,B-12, Folic Acid, and Calcium. As for her diet she loves to eat vegetables and fruits. So, she probably doesn't even need the B-Complex since veggies and fruits are likely high in B-Vitamins? The only reason she’s taking B-12 is because a doctor told her that it’s one of the 4 most important nutrients a woman should be taking (Calcium, Vitamin D and Folic Acid are the other 3).

[krillin]

No she doesn't take res, she's not a Immortalist, she merely does it to be healthy. As I mentioned on another post she only takes Vitamin D, K, E,B-12, Folic Acid, and Calcium. As for her diet she loves to eat vegetables and fruits. So, she probably doesn't even need the B-Complex since veggies and fruits are likely high in B-Vitamins? The only reason she’s taking B-12 is because a doctor told her that it’s one of the 4 most important nutrients a woman should be taking (Calcium, Vitamin D and Folic Acid are the other 3).

Make sure she gets at least 4 mg of B6, stays with the B12, and replaces folic acid with folinic acid like this product. Justify the folinic acid with this article.

[Dmitri]

No she doesn't take res, she's not a Immortalist, she merely does it to be healthy. As I mentioned on another post she only takes Vitamin D, K, E,B-12, Folic Acid, and Calcium. As for her diet she loves to eat vegetables and fruits. So, she probably doesn't even need the B-Complex since veggies and fruits are likely high in B-Vitamins? The only reason she's taking B-12 is because a doctor told her that it's one of the 4 most important nutrients a woman should be taking (Calcium, Vitamin D and Folic Acid are the other 3).

Make sure she gets at least 4 mg of B6, stays with the B12, and replaces folic acid with folinic acid like this product. Justify the folinic acid with this article.

Thanks for the info, although I found another B-Complex with more reasonable dosages.

Vitamin C (as Ascorbic Acid and Rose Hips) 300.0 mg
Thiamin (Vitamin B1) (as Thiamine Mononitrate) 18.0 mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) 10.0 mg
Niacin (as Niacinamide) 50.0 mg
Vitamin B-6 (as Pyrdoxine Hydrochloride) 5.0 mg
Folic Acid 400.0 mcg
Vitamin B-12 (as Cyanocobalamin) 10.0 mcg
Biotin 50.0 mcg
Pantothenic Acid (as D-Calcium Pantothenate) 10.0 mg

I'll ask her about the product you recommended as well.

Edited by Dmitri, 11 August 2008 - 12:32 AM.

[PWAIN]

Why not just give her AOR multi basic 3 and drop what she is currently taking as it is included. You can get 2 months supply (180 caps 3/day) for around $50 Canadian. Not cheap but when you add up the costs of what she is currently taking, it probably is the same and you get a well thought out high quality multi for your money.

No she doesn't take res, she's not a Immortalist, she merely does it to be healthy. As I mentioned on another post she only takes Vitamin D, K, E,B-12, Folic Acid, and Calcium. As for her diet she loves to eat vegetables and fruits. So, she probably doesn't even need the B-Complex since veggies and fruits are likely high in B-Vitamins? The only reason she's taking B-12 is because a doctor told her that it's one of the 4 most important nutrients a woman should be taking (Calcium, Vitamin D and Folic Acid are the other 3).

Make sure she gets at least 4 mg of B6, stays with the B12, and replaces folic acid with folinic acid like this product. Justify the folinic acid with this article.

Thanks for the info, although I found another B-Complex with more reasonable dosages.

Vitamin C (as Ascorbic Acid and Rose Hips) 300.0 mg
Thiamin (Vitamin B1) (as Thiamine Mononitrate) 18.0 mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) 10.0 mg
Niacin (as Niacinamide) 50.0 mg
Vitamin B-6 (as Pyrdoxine Hydrochloride) 5.0 mg
Folic Acid 400.0 mcg
Vitamin B-12 (as Cyanocobalamin) 10.0 mcg
Biotin 50.0 mcg
Pantothenic Acid (as D-Calcium Pantothenate) 10.0 mg

I'll ask her about the product you recommended as well.

[liorrh]

I assume you would not approve ADAM for men B ratio:

Thiamine (Vit. B-1) (from Thiamine HCI) 25mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) 25mg
Niacin (Vitamin B-3) (from Niacinamide and Inositol Hexaniothinate) 50mg
Vitamin B-6 (from Pynidoxine HCI and Pyridoxal-5 Phosphate (P-5-P) 25mg
Folate (as Folic Acid) 800mcg
Vitamin B-12 (as Methylobalamin) 250mg
Biotin 300mcg
Pantothenic Acid (Vitamin B-5) (from Calcium d-Pantothenate) 100mg

AOR is just too pricey fo me. any other options?

[liorrh]

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