30 replies to this topic

[Jeremy]

Anyone tried to take Magnesium transdermally by spraying magnesium oil on the skin or by soaking the whole body or just the feet in bath water mixed with magnesium oil?

There's a book about that called Transdermal Magnesium Therapy by Mark Sircus.

I'm seriously considering trying it because taking oral magnesium almost always give me diarrhea.

There's more info on:

http://www.puremagoi...ggested_use.htm

http://www.magnesium...magnesium.shtml

[niner]

Anyone tried to take Magnesium transdermally by spraying magnesium oil on the skin or by soaking the whole body or just the feet in bath water mixed with magnesium oil?

There's a book about that called Transdermal Magnesium Therapy by Mark Sircus.

I'm seriously considering trying it because taking oral magnesium almost always give me diarrhea.

There's more info on:

http://www.puremagoi...ggested_use.htm

http://www.magnesium...magnesium.shtml

Save your money. This is a scam. Ionic substances like magnesium chloride don't pass through the skin well at all. The amount you would get would be completely irrelevant to your dietary needs. If you want to soak in it, just get some Epsom Salt from the drug store, and use that; it will be way cheaper. It's a decent soak, but you aren't going to get any magnesium from it transdermally. There is a way to drive ions through skin using electric current. It's called iontophoresis, but the Sircus stuff isn't that. It's just an overpriced fraud.

You might want to try getting your magnesium from leafy greens. That should at least keep the diarrhea under control. Which oral magnesium supplement forms have you tried? Does it matter if you take them after meals, or spread throughout the day?

[Advanc3d]

I think magnesium supplementation should be taken with food for increased bioavailability
I myself take
450mg of Magnesium (from Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate) a day

[4eva]

You may be low in magnesium and thiamine.

These two nutrients work together.

Also hypomagnesemia is related to thiamine deficiency because magnesium is needed for transforming thiamine into thiamine pyrophosphate.

I would highly recommend you get benfotiamine. Take several of those (80 mg) for a single dose. Take regular thiamine too. If that seems to help or change you might look into sulbutiamine because it is fat soluable form.

And if you want to try soaking your feet in epsom salts or making a spray to put on your skin in the meantime that would be good. You don't have to soak it in. The magnesium oil can leave a sticky residue so it is not recommended.

But I think you may have a problem with thiamine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/4050546

[Jeremy]

I first heard heard about using Magnesium oil from the web site of Carolyn Dean, the author of "The Magnesium Miracle", she states:

"When I first wrote The Magnesium Miracle, I realized that many people can't take oral magnesium because of the laxative effect. Therefore I began researching and then advising people to put supersaturated magnesium chloride-called magnesium oil on their skin to bypass the intestines; stimulate DHEA production that occurs in the skin; use it in baths and foot baths for muscle aches, joint pain, and foot pain and neuropathy. You can find out more about magnesium oil at www.globallight.net. Dilute 50:50 with distilled water or coconut oil and apply 1-2 tsp on your skin every day. OR you can apply 50:50 diluted mag oil with distilled water all over your body and leave on for at least 30 minutes, then shower off because it gets itchy when the mag oil dries."

Do you really think it's a scam?

From http://www.drcarolyn.../resources.html

Save your money. This is a scam. Ionic substances like magnesium chloride don't pass through the skin well at all. The amount you would get would be completely irrelevant to your dietary needs.

[ortcloud]

Anyone tried to take Magnesium transdermally by spraying magnesium oil on the skin or by soaking the whole body or just the feet in bath water mixed with magnesium oil?

There's a book about that called Transdermal Magnesium Therapy by Mark Sircus.

I'm seriously considering trying it because taking oral magnesium almost always give me diarrhea.

There's more info on:

http://www.puremagoi...ggested_use.htm

http://www.magnesium...magnesium.shtml

what kind of oral mag have you tried ? You could also split up the dose between each meal.

You could also try liposomal magnesium or even get an IV or IM from a doctor, I get mine in a slow push in a myers cocktail.
Although I would not recommend this unless your doctor is experienced as it can stop your heart.

[niner]

Do you really think it's a scam?

Yes.

[edward]

Do you really think it's a scam?

Yes.

I am just going to take the time, waste the pixels, to agree, in the name of quashing "tomfoolery".

Transdermal magnesium is RIDICULOUS. You will get some absorption but in order to get enough of a "clunky" magnesium compound ( or transdermal unfriendly ion like magnesium chloride) this way (to tip the dietary scales in your favor) you would literally have to soak in the stuff (appropriate magnesium compound + delivery vehicle) for an insane amount of time or apply to every inch of your body (maximizing the amount of surface area available to absorb the magnesium) multiple times a day, of course with an effective transdermal transport vehicle (dmso etc). Talk about time consuming, annoying, messy and probably unhealthy if you consider the amount of dmso et al. needed, not to mention the other substances you will inadvertently introduce into your bloodstream.

There are plenty of magnesium compounds that cause very little diarrhea, and I have yet to find a person that has a huge problem with increasing their intake of green leafy vegetables.

Edited by edward, 05 August 2008 - 03:32 PM.

[Alchemist50]

Anyone tried to take Magnesium transdermally by spraying magnesium oil on the skin or by soaking the whole body or just the feet in bath water mixed with magnesium oil?

There's a book about that called Transdermal Magnesium Therapy by Mark Sircus.

I'm seriously considering trying it because taking oral magnesium almost always give me diarrhea.

There's more info on:

http://www.puremagoi...ggested_use.htm

http://www.magnesium...magnesium.shtml

Dear Jeremy,

What a shame that more people do not utilize transdermal magnesium therapy. I work in conjunction with quite a few practitioners that have started incorporating it into their protocols. What they are finding out is that most people are magnesium deficient, and are seeing the benefits of the magnesium therapy right away. Some of the stories are incredible, and I, for one, am glad that there is a choice now. Many people who take it as an oral supplement suffer from diarrhea, so they stop taking it and are still left deficient. I use it every single day, and don't plan on stopping any time soon. Oh, and by the way, since I have started using it, my DHEA levels have been elevated to 378.

[Alchemist50]

One more thing, Jeremy. For those who are under the impression that magnesium chloride does not pass through the skin barrier, here is a direct quote from:
The Department of Dermatology,
University of Kiel, Kiel, Germany, Derma
Consult, Bonn-Alfter, Germany, Mavena AG,
Belp, Switzerland, and Rosenweg 2a, Toffen,
Switzerland

"Magnesium salts, the prevalent minerals in Dead Sea water, are known to exhibit favorable
effects in inflammatory diseases. We examined the efficacy of bathing atopic subjects in a salt
rich in magnesium chloride from deep layers of the Dead Sea (Mavena® Dermaline Mg
46
Dead
Sea salt, Mavena AG, Belp, Switzerland).
Volunteers with atopic dry skin submerged one forearm for 15 min in a bath solution
containing 5% Dead Sea salt. The second arm was submerged in tap water as control. Before
the study and at weeks 1–6, transepidermal water loss (TEWL), skin hydration, skin roughness,
and skin redness were determined.
We found one subgroup with a normal and one subgroup with an elevated TEWL before the
study. Bathing in the Dead Sea salt solution significantly improved skin barrier function
compared with the tap water-treated control forearm in the subgroup with elevated basal TEWL.
Skin hydration was enhanced on the forearm treated with the Dead Sea salt in each group,
which means the treatment moisturized the skin. Skin roughness and redness of the skin as
a marker for inflammation were significantly reduced after bathing in the salt solution. This
demonstrates that bathing in the salt solution was well tolerated, improved skin barrier function,
enhanced stratum corneum hydration, and reduced skin roughness and inflammation.
We suggest that the favorable effects of bathing in the Dead Sea salt solution are most likely
related to the high magnesium content. Magnesium salts are known to bind water, influence
epidermal proliferation and differentiation, and enhance permeability barrier repair."

[SusanK]

I use a magnesium supplement with a gel diffusion delivery system, so it has a slower release and doesn't give the "Phillips Effect".
My husband suffered from a Mg deficiency and no one could help. Once we pinpointed it on our own (no help from the MDs), he saw results the first day and no longer walks with a cane (he was 40). I honestly think that everyone should take Mg.

[niner]

One more thing, Jeremy. For those who are under the impression that magnesium chloride does not pass through the skin barrier, here is a direct quote from:

If you actually read the abstract, you will see that skin barrier function was improved by magnesium, but it says nothing about magnesium diffusing through the skin. That's because it doesn't happen. If ions easily passed through skin, swimming in the ocean would probably kill you.

[4eva]

If you brine a turkey it absorbs the salt. Whole turkeys with skin are brined. Why are turkeys and turkey skin different than humans and human skin.

I've read the human blood is close to sea water in salinity. Why would death occur if transdermal absorption were possible while swimming in the ocean.

[Gerald W. Gaston]

Whos got time to soak? I wonder which study the Epson Salt Council is referring to here:

Epsom Salt Council - Better health through soaking

A quick search finds this but hopefully there is a better source:

Report on Absorption of magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) across the skin

Edited by frankbuzin, 13 August 2008 - 05:49 AM.

[krillin]

I've read the human blood is close to sea water in salinity. Why would death occur if transdermal absorption were possible while swimming in the ocean.

What tripe have you been reading? It's not close at all. Human blood is 0.9%. Sea water is 3.5%.

[ideal11]

I guess a much more effective way of increasing magnesium levels in the body is to soak in bath salts. Magnesium in the salts can be absorbed through the skin when soaking in an Epsom salt bath. It is a lot cheaper and is good for a few things as well. Epsom salts relaxes and is good for the skin too.

[stephen_b]

If you brine a turkey it absorbs the salt. Whole turkeys with skin are brined. Why are turkeys and turkey skin different than humans and human skin.

On the one hand there is necrotic turkey flesh and on the other living human skin (ok, there goes my appetite for turkey for a while). You simply can't compare the two.

This study might be of interest, in which volunteers took Mg sulfate baths:

Subjects were recruited from the staff of the School of Biosciences, University of Birmingham. In all, 19 subjects (10M, 9F) were recruited for the various aspects of the study. All were in good health, and not on any current medication. No subject smoked more than 5 cigarettes/day or drank more than 2 units of alcohol/day. The ages ranged from 24-64 years ... Magnesium levels in blood are very tightly controlled. Of 19 subjects, all except 3 showed a rise in magnesium concentrations in plasma, though this was small in some cases. The values before the first bath were, mean 104.68 ± 20.76 ppm/ml; after the first bath the mean was 114.08 ± 25.83 ppm/ml. Continuation of bathing for 7 days in all except 2 individuals gave a rise to a mean of 140.98 ± 17.00ppm/ml. Prolonged soaking in Epsom salts therefore increases blood magnesium concentrations.

Stephen

[niner]

This study might be of interest, in which volunteers took Mg sulfate baths:

Subjects were recruited from the staff of the School of Biosciences, University of Birmingham. In all, 19 subjects (10M, 9F) were recruited for the various aspects of the study. All were in good health, and not on any current medication. No subject smoked more than 5 cigarettes/day or drank more than 2 units of alcohol/day. The ages ranged from 24-64 years ... Magnesium levels in blood are very tightly controlled. Of 19 subjects, all except 3 showed a rise in magnesium concentrations in plasma, though this was small in some cases. The values before the first bath were, mean 104.68 ± 20.76 ppm/ml; after the first bath the mean was 114.08 ± 25.83 ppm/ml. Continuation of bathing for 7 days in all except 2 individuals gave a rise to a mean of 140.98 ± 17.00ppm/ml. Prolonged soaking in Epsom salts therefore increases blood magnesium concentrations.

This study smells like science, but it comes from a transdermal magnesium promoting website, and does not appear to have been published, let alone peer reviewed. The fact that they use a meaningless unit of "ppm/ml" is worrying. Did they control for people swallowing some of the Epsom salt?

[stephen_b]

That's a valid point. It is also featured on the epsom salt council website. There doesn't seem to be a bunch of information out there.

Here's a rat study (PMID 1853412): "Magnesium sulfate reverses experimental delayed cerebral vasospasm after subarachnoid hemorrhage in rats":

Topical magnesium sulfate caused dramatic dilation of the basilar artery in both the control and the subarachnoid hemorrhage groups to near 150% of the baseline diameter in the controls (p less than 0.001).

From the University of Maryland medical center site:

Other familiar sources of magnesium are magnesium hydroxide (often used as a laxative or antacid) and magnesium sulfate (generally used as a laxative or tonic, or added to a bath). Some magnesium can be absorbed through the skin.

Not very precise, I'll grant.

Well, I feel more relaxed after an epsom salt bath.

Stephen

[Wedrifid]

I've read the human blood is close to sea water in salinity. Why would death occur if transdermal absorption were possible while swimming in the ocean.

What tripe have you been reading? It's not close at all. Human blood is 0.9%. Sea water is 3.5%.

The balance of salts in the blood is somewhat similar to sea water. Concentration... not so much.

[niner]

That's a valid point. It is also featured on the epsom salt council website. There doesn't seem to be a bunch of information out there.

Here's a rat study (PMID 1853412): "Magnesium sulfate reverses experimental delayed cerebral vasospasm after subarachnoid hemorrhage in rats":

Topical magnesium sulfate caused dramatic dilation of the basilar artery in both the control and the subarachnoid hemorrhage groups to near 150% of the baseline diameter in the controls (p less than 0.001).

Here's the abstract. I think what they mean by "topical" is that after the basilar artery was exposed, they painted it with MgSO4 solution. Maybe we could figure it out if we had the full text. I find it a lot easier to just take magnesium orally, so I'm not really motivated to research it, but it would be really interesting if Mg was actually able to get in transdermally. It would definitely make me rethink things.

Magnesium sulfate reverses experimental delayed cerebral vasospasm after subarachnoid hemorrhage in rats.Ram Z, Sadeh M, Shacked I, Sahar A, Hadani M.
Department of Neurosurgery, Chaim Sheba Medical Center, Sackler School of Medicine, Tel-Hashomer, Israel.

We induced experimental delayed cerebral vasospasm by the intracisternal injection of greater than 0.5 ml blood in 30 rats. Seventy-two hours later the basilar artery was exposed via the transclival approach and photographed at high-power magnification through an operating microscope. We then evaluated the effect of topical (n = 30) and intravenous (n = 20) magnesium sulfate on the spastic artery by computerized image analysis. A greater than 50% reduction in baseline diameter of the basilar artery was observed in the rats subjected to subarachnoid hemorrhage compared with the 10 controls (p less than 0.0001). Intravenous magnesium sulfate dilated the spastic artery to approximately 75% of the baseline diameter in control rats (p less than 0.0001). Topical magnesium sulfate caused dramatic dilation of the basilar artery in both the control and the subarachnoid hemorrhage groups to near 150% of the baseline diameter in the controls (p less than 0.001). All rats receiving intravenous magnesium sulfate reached therapeutic plasma levels of the ion. Hemodynamic effects were mild and immediately reversible upon cessation of magnesium sulfate administration. We suggest that magnesium has a role in the treatment of subarachnoid hemorrhage-induced vasospasm in humans.

PMID: 1853412

[stephen_b]

I'm really starting to believe that magnesium is transdermally bioavailable.

Percutaneous penetration of the magnesium sulfate adduct of dipyrithione in man (PMID 898185, but no abstract there).

A single dose of the 14C-labeled magnesium sulfate adduct of 2,2′-dithio-bis-pyridine-1-oxide, using 4, 12 or 40 μg/cm2 per site, was applied (8-hr contact time) to the forearm, fore-head, and scalp of human volunteers. The urinary excretion of 14C was quantitated over the 5-day study period. Skin penetration data was corrected for incomplete urinary recovery using data obtained from iv studies. The results obtained in this study indicated that as the concentration (μg/cm2) increased, more was absorbed and that skin permeability for equivalent doses (μg/cm2) on different anatomic sites assumed the following order: FOREHEAD = scalp > forearm.

This study is also cited on page 282 of Topical drug bioavailability, bioequivalence, and penetration By Vinod P. Shah, Howard I. Maibach.

[zorba990]

I'm really starting to believe that magnesium is transdermally bioavailable.

Percutaneous penetration of the magnesium sulfate adduct of dipyrithione in man (PMID 898185, but no abstract there).

A single dose of the 14C-labeled magnesium sulfate adduct of 2,2′-dithio-bis-pyridine-1-oxide, using 4, 12 or 40 μg/cm2 per site, was applied (8-hr contact time) to the forearm, fore-head, and scalp of human volunteers. The urinary excretion of 14C was quantitated over the 5-day study period. Skin penetration data was corrected for incomplete urinary recovery using data obtained from iv studies. The results obtained in this study indicated that as the concentration (μg/cm2) increased, more was absorbed and that skin permeability for equivalent doses (μg/cm2) on different anatomic sites assumed the following order: FOREHEAD = scalp > forearm.

This study is also cited on page 282 of Topical drug bioavailability, bioequivalence, and penetration By Vinod P. Shah, Howard I. Maibach.

My anecdotal experience is that it works. However there are lots of scammy overpriced topicals out there.
epsom salt or nigari seems to work fine

[jackdaniels]

Interesting thread on Mag Oil...

http://www.worldhair...ewthread/93/P0/

[niner]

I'm really starting to believe that magnesium is transdermally bioavailable.

Percutaneous penetration of the magnesium sulfate adduct of dipyrithione in man[/url] (PMID 898185, but no abstract there).

A single dose of the 14C-labeled magnesium sulfate adduct of 2,2′-dithio-bis-pyridine-1-oxide, using 4, 12 or 40 μg/cm2 per site, was applied (8-hr contact time) to the forearm, fore-head, and scalp of human volunteers. The urinary excretion of 14C was quantitated over the 5-day study period. Skin penetration data was corrected for incomplete urinary recovery using data obtained from iv studies. The results obtained in this study indicated that as the concentration (μg/cm2) increased, more was absorbed and that skin permeability for equivalent doses (μg/cm2) on different anatomic sites assumed the following order: FOREHEAD = scalp > forearm.

This study is also cited on page 282 of Topical drug bioavailability, bioequivalence, and penetration By Vinod P. Shah, Howard I. Maibach.

This stuff is really different than a magnesium salt. It's probably similar to Zinc Pyrithione, where the di-cation has been chelated, forming a four-coordinate complex. It is electrically neutralized and enclosed in a hydrophobic "outer wrapper". Thus it is able to get through skin, but it doesn't have much bearing on the behavior of the naked metal ion.

As far as I can tell, there's no scientific evidence that magnesium ions cross the skin barrier in any significant quantity, absent something like a driving electrical current as in iontophoresis.

[Peregrine777]

I use a magnesium supplement with a gel diffusion delivery system, so it has a slower release and doesn't give the "Phillips Effect".

Which brand is this?

[RedCairo]

I never got any real effect from taking Mag as a supp and eventually stopped, though my dosage had gotten pretty high.

I have a dramatic effect from spraying the 'oil' (mostly a brine-salt; slightly tacky, like a day in the ocean, even when dry) all over my torso. It was so dramatic I thought I was obviously having a placebo effect. I tried it 'sporadically' over a couple of months and every time, literally the next day, I really feel substantially different -- as if I were deficient before, and ok after.

Note: 1) my torso is damn large, and 2) I have evidenced serious issues with absorbing nutrients properly in the digestive tract (which probably has some relationship to #1).

I am looking to create a lipospheric version and a DMSO blend, is how I found this particular thread.

I just wanted to say that if "absolutely nothing is penetrating my skin" when using magnesium oil transdermally, then for me at least the stuff is worth buying just for the fabulous psychological effect.

However I'm not fond of spraying myself with tacky junk and I'd like to get MORE of it into me, hence my interest in the lipo and DMSO approach.

PJ

[kurdishfella]

Which brand is this?

wtf is the Phillips Effect ?

[Lady4T]

I think he is referring to 'Phillips Milk of Magnesia', a laxative.

[BasicBiO]

I never got any real effect from taking Mag as a supp and eventually stopped, though my dosage had gotten pretty high.

I have a dramatic effect from spraying the 'oil' (mostly a brine-salt; slightly tacky, like a day in the ocean, even when dry) all over my torso. It was so dramatic I thought I was obviously having a placebo effect. I tried it 'sporadically' over a couple of months and every time, literally the next day, I really feel substantially different -- as if I were deficient before, and ok after.

Note: 1) my torso is damn large, and 2) I have evidenced serious issues with absorbing nutrients properly in the digestive tract (which probably has some relationship to #1).

I am looking to create a lipospheric version and a DMSO blend, is how I found this particular thread.

I just wanted to say that if "absolutely nothing is penetrating my skin" when using magnesium oil transdermally, then for me at least the stuff is worth buying just for the fabulous psychological effect.

However I'm not fond of spraying myself with tacky junk and I'd like to get MORE of it into me, hence my interest in the lipo and DMSO approach.

PJ

 

 

I basically have the same reaction. I get minimal noticeable effects from most oral Mg supplements. Mg Threonate is probably the most noticeable, but even then the effects seems to go away after several doses. 

 

Mg "oil" and Epsom salt baths I definitely feel and sleep much harder with a very noticeable degree of muscle relaxation...even when taking daily oral Mg supplements.

 

My hypothesis as to why is this...most studies are looking at blood concentrations of Mg. I suspect topicals likely absorb very slowly and as those tiny amounts of Mg enter the skin environment the lymph system or musculature directly underneath the skin absorb it quickly so it doesn't often register on blood tests. The Mg might also be absorbed by the peripheral nervous system and create a systemic relaxation that so many Epsom salt bath users feel.

 

All in all, based on the limited science we have on most supplements, including Mg, I don't think statements swearing off transdermal application are warranted when there are millions of people claiming otherwise. Before you all go off on PLACEBO, I'm well versed in placebo research and it certainly could be a small factor but the consistency of observations along with some positive studies should be considered.