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Amphetamine withdrawl...help!


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#1 M.speciosa

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 04:21 AM


So I've been on 12 mg of Selegiline (Emsam) and 10 mg of Amphetamine (this is prescribed) daily for a while now. I'm going to be stopping the Amphetamine in about a week, so I'm going to need something to replace it. I know not much will compare to Amps' but I need something to keep my concentration and energy levels (mental and physical) up. I'm really going to need some help right after I stop the Amps...I am absolutely dreading the anhedonia and fatigue that comes along with stopping ;) . By the way, I've been prescribed the them for about a year now.

My question is: is there anything I can take that can help with the effects of Amphetamine withdrawl? I'm thinking Modafinil or Adrafinil may be helpful. Or maybe Pheylpiracetam? Any help will be greatly appreciated!
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#2 luv2increase

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 04:29 AM

So I've been on 12 mg of Selegiline (Emsam) and 10 mg of Amphetamine (this is prescribed) daily for a while now. I'm going to be stopping the Amphetamine in about a week, so I'm going to need something to replace it. I know not much will compare to Amps' but I need something to keep my concentration and energy levels (mental and physical) up. I'm really going to need some help right after I stop the Amps...I am absolutely dreading the anhedonia and fatigue that comes along with stopping ;) . By the way, I've been prescribed the them for about a year now.

My question is: is there anything I can take that can help with the effects of Amphetamine withdrawl? I'm thinking Modafinil or Adrafinil may be helpful. Or maybe Pheylpiracetam? Any help will be greatly appreciated!



adaptogens (rhodiola, bacopa, ashwagandha --> my favs) and lots of water for the withdrawal


Caffeine & racetams along with choline source to replace the amphetamine. You may need to keep your caffeine levels down though since you are on a high dose of selegiline.
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#3 Rags847

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 05:51 AM

Modafinil will wake a fatigued person up to baseline without the stimulated rush of amphetamines. Piracetam may bring fatigue. Oxiracetam has some mind-stimulating, intense concentration effect in my experience.

Can't you taper off the amphetamines slowly? Cut the remaining pills into smaller doses? Always the best way.
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#4 Advanc3d

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 12:41 AM

take bupropion
says its good for amphetamine whitdrawls.
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#5 mystery

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 12:58 AM

So I've been on 12 mg of Selegiline (Emsam) and 10 mg of Amphetamine (this is prescribed) daily for a while now. I'm going to be stopping the Amphetamine in about a week, so I'm going to need something to replace it. I know not much will compare to Amps' but I need something to keep my concentration and energy levels (mental and physical) up. I'm really going to need some help right after I stop the Amps...I am absolutely dreading the anhedonia and fatigue that comes along with stopping :) . By the way, I've been prescribed the them for about a year now.

My question is: is there anything I can take that can help with the effects of Amphetamine withdrawl? I'm thinking Modafinil or Adrafinil may be helpful. Or maybe Pheylpiracetam? Any help will be greatly appreciated!


As Rags mentioned, it is much better to taper off. I'm curious to know why you were on Selegiline and amphetamine (presumibly adderall or dextroamphetamine?). What was the effect?

Here's something I posted to another group, with one additional thing to try: try a semi-megadose of Vitamin C. I've noticed alpha-lipoic acid to help with my come-down off dexedrine, and I understand this can potentially convert to vitamin C. I'm trying vit C now, and it seems to normalize me somewhat. But maybe I'm just a freak because I respond to very low doses of dexedrine...

Reduce the [amphetamine] dose, and slowly taper off.

Nutrition - Get a multi vitamin/mineral, and start taking it. Also make sure and eat food that will provide sustained energy.

Exercise - It's mentioned a million times on this group. Try and start light, like just go for a walk.

Try and take your mind off the withdrawal by doing something. Like force yourself to get up and clean, or try something you like doing.

Try meditating, or just relaxing, but don't let yourself fall asleep if getting excessive sleep won't help. It was difficult for me to learn how to meditate, so this may take some practice.

Try taking some supplements. I find Acetyl l carnitine and alpha lipoic acid really pick up my energy. Some other herbs and supplements to help:
Vitamin B complex
Omega 3, or Flaxseed oil: Very healthy supplement for the brain
Ginsengs: Siberian, Asian, or American
L-Tyrosine: Very stimulating, so you may want to just take a low dose.
St Johns Wort: may help with depression
5-HTP: Also might be helpful for depression
SAMe: Appears to potentially be a powerful antidepressant
Rhodiola Rosea: Very stimulating in my experience
Huperzine A: Acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, good for mental energy
Bacopa: Good for cognition, and possibly mental energy
Idebenone/CoQ10: may help energy

Potentially helpful drugs for mood and energy (depending on how you react to them):
Caffeine
Nicotine: Can get from patches or gum, best in low doses for energy.
Modafinil or Adrafinil
Ephedrine/Pseudoephedrine: It is best to take just a small dose
Deprenyl: MAO-B, best in a small dose as it's effect can build being an irreversible MAO
There are a lot of anti-depressant drugs available with immediate therapeutic effect.

Hope this gives you some ideas. You'll need to experiment with some supplements as people may react quite differently sometimes. Most people notice the most benign effects from a muti vit/min, and an Omega 3, so those would be the best place to start.


EDIT: Be careful when combining some of the above with your selegiline dose. You'll want to start very low.

Edited by mystery, 30 September 2008 - 01:05 AM.

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#6 Rags847

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 01:42 AM


Avoid any of these with amphetamine still in your system.

Drug Interactions: Caution should be exercised when coprescribing amphetamines and other drugs since clinically significant interactions with a number of drugs have been reported. In some instances, potentiation of CNS and cardiac effects could be life threatening. Dosages should be closely monitored.

Known interactions with amphetamines are as follows: Synergistic Interactions : tricyclic antidepressants, MAO inhibitors, meperidine, norepinephrine, phenobarbital, phenytoin, propoxyphene, acetazolamide, thiazides, gastrointestinal and urinary alkalinizing agents.

Antagonistic Interactions : adrenergic blockers, antihistamines, antihypertensives, chlorpromazine, ethosuximide, guanethidine, haloperidol, lithium carbonate, methenamine, Veratrum alkaloids, gastrointestinal and urinary acidifying agents.

http://www.rxmed.com.../DEXEDRINE.html
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#7 spacey

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 12:24 PM

take bupropion
says its good for amphetamine whitdrawls.


Yea! Let's combine Bupropion and Selegiline and give the poor guy a hypertensive crisis..
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#8 M.speciosa

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 10:27 PM

Modafinil will wake a fatigued person up to baseline without the stimulated rush of amphetamines. Piracetam may bring fatigue. Oxiracetam has some mind-stimulating, intense concentration effect in my experience. Can't you taper off the amphetamines slowly? Cut the remaining pills into smaller doses? Always the best way.

Hmm, Modafinil seems like my best bet. Do you or anyone else have a good online source for this (if it isn't against the board rules)? Isn't Modafinil similar to Adrafinil (sp?)? What are the differences. Just out of curiosity, why would Piracetam bring fatigue, and not Oxiracetam? And I'm actually tapering off the Amps at the moment. I'm gonna have to start tapering much more though!

Thanks to everyone for the helpful replies! I really appreciate it. :)

Edited by M.speciosa, 02 October 2008 - 10:28 PM.

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#9 hamishm00

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 10:37 PM

Modafinil is superior to Adrafinil - there are tons of threads on this site that explain why. search.
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#10 mystery

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 02:42 AM

Hmm, Modafinil seems like my best bet. Do you or anyone else have a good online source for this (if it isn't against the board rules)? Isn't Modafinil similar to Adrafinil (sp?)? What are the differences. Just out of curiosity, why would Piracetam bring fatigue, and not Oxiracetam? And I'm actually tapering off the Amps at the moment. I'm gonna have to start tapering much more though!

Thanks to everyone for the helpful replies! I really appreciate it. :)


Adrafinil metabolizes to modafinil and is not controlled. However, adrafinil may have more side effects and has been linked to liver problems.

Adrafinil is not controlled in the US, so I think it's legal to import without a prescription. I got some from IAS. Modafinil is a schedule IV controlled substance, meaning it is illegal to important or obtain without a valid prescription.
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#11 M.speciosa

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 02:52 AM

Ah, good to know. Thank you both. I may have to go with Adrafinil then, due to it's ability to be imported. I'm sure it will be better than nothing (I hope).
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#12 Mixter

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 07:38 AM

Just take a few dozen mg of melatonin daily if you need it and sleep through
the effects, while not sleeping, just go for walks or engage in some activity
that distracts you, and get plenty of water & vitamins. I guess this should help.
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#13 mystery

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 05:31 AM

Just take a few dozen mg of melatonin daily if you need it and sleep through
the effects, while not sleeping, just go for walks or engage in some activity
that distracts you, and get plenty of water & vitamins. I guess this should help.


I've taken lots of melatonin, and the effect was miserable because I was totally zombified. I wanted to just lay down but couldn't sleep.

The concept isn't bad though. Maybe take some herbs or supplemets to help lengthen sleep and possibly speed up recovery. In that case I would rotate between the following:
low dose of melatonin
L-tryptophan
Valerian
Chamomile

Of course, to get sleep, one needs to be using their brain while awake to induce tiredness. Supplements won't compensate for just not needing sleep. You'd need some zanax if you wanted to knock yourself out for an extended period. Using the modafinil or caffeine during the day to use your brain and make it tired, and a sleep supp at night could possibly really lengthen sleep.

Edited by mystery, 04 October 2008 - 05:32 AM.

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#14 Rags847

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 05:44 AM

Melatonin? I think the threadstarter is worried about sleeping too much, not too little. People worried about amphetamine withdrawl are worried about being tired, depressed, unmotivated.

M. speciosa, if you were dosing at theraputic levels, you might find coming off it is not as bad as you think.
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#15 bgwithadd

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 06:11 AM

10 mg is not a lot. You should not get too many withdrawl effects. Nicotine patches will work pretty well in its stead
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#16 graatch

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 06:12 AM

IME food, rest, sleep for three days. Light exercise is good too if you can make yourself do it. If I've been taking my amphetamine prescription for a while and want to stop for whatever reason for a time, then I don't expect to be especially functional for two or three days. I plan ahead and make sure my obligations, etc. can be moved. After those first three days, which are mostly spent sleeping with something of a tendency towards depression, there comes the more subtle problem in the next two weeks. Nicotine and yerba mate have been quite useful to me during those periods, along with the aforementioned food, rest, and sleep. Sometimes in this latter period my insomnia manifests (this isn't unusual, I think) ... I haven't tried it for this purpose, but I suspect that Mucuna Pruriens (or even L-DOPA) taken at bedtime would be useful here.

Edited by graatch, 05 October 2008 - 06:13 AM.

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#17 Rags847

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 06:21 AM

I suspect that Mucuna Pruriens (or even L-DOPA) taken at bedtime would be useful here.


I have no experience with L-Dopa, but why would you want to take it at bedtime. Doesn't it increase dopamine levels and interfere with sleep?
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#18 graatch

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 12:19 AM

^^Good questions. OK, the function of the dopamine neurotransmitter system can manipulate both excitatory and inhibitory effects, depending on various considerations. Note for example, the typically largely sedative effects of most dopamine agonists, in the absence of some sort of broader catecholamine & adrenergic affinity that "psychostimulants" typically possess.

And dopamine is absolutely necessary for either of relaxation and deep sleep, and its scarcity causes restless leg syndrome/periodic leg movements (akathisia, I think, being an extreme case on the same spectrum) which prevent deep, restorative sleep. Dopamine agonists are the most effective treatment for this condition, and L-DOPA has also shown effectiveness. ADD patients consistently have decreased sleep quality also, and ADD has a very high comorbidity rate with RLS -- the common thread, of impaired dopaminergic transmission, is no token. And a stable regimen of therapeutic stimulant treatment for ADD tends to IMPROVE sleep quality, if the dose is not too high i.e. causing insomnia. In Parkinson's disease too, sleep quality is typically highly compromised and either of dopamine agonists or L-DOPA tend to restore it, which is rather important considering the propensity to neurotoxicity that occurs when sleep is compromised.

A lot of bodybuilders have taken to eating L-DOPA preparations before sleep, because the drug increases growth hormone and in theory this will improve body composition. Deep, restorative sleep is also necessary to growth hormone release.

The amphetamine withdrawal state, I believe, especially for people who at baseline show the symptoms of AD(H)D (hence taking amphetamine as medication), is a condition of retarded dopamine transmission. In my personal experience, I can't do much of anything BUT sleep for the first three days after I withdraw, but afterwards for about two weeks there is a tendency to insomnia. So the idea is that a dopaminergic without much concomitant adrenergic stimulation could help with this. I don't think L-DOPA will improve sleep in everyone, though. I also personally would prefer Mucuna to L-DOPA, especially unstandardized, because the duration of effect seems longer (more suited to an 8-hour sleep period, even), and for a number of reasons I suspect that the active dopaminergic fraction that helped Parkinson's patients in clinical trials (and in traditional use) is not actually L-DOPA, but perhaps another agent in combination with it. Some people are concerned about L-DOPA neurotoxicity, although I'm not so sure about it.

**(one strong theory regarding this points to the sometimes (i.e. in some areas of the brain) antagonistic relationship between acetycholine and dopamine transmission, and the disinhibition of acetylcholine that occurs when dopamine-producing cells have been killed off. Hence, you get symptoms related to cholinergic excess -- for example extreme muscle tension, and very disrupted sleep.)

edit: That was kind of an info dump, but I can provide some citations and reading if you just ask.

Edited by graatch, 06 October 2008 - 12:38 AM.

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#19 Rags847

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 01:16 AM

That was kind of an info dump, but I can provide some citations and reading if you just ask.


Thanks graatch! Very interesting post. And definitely interested in any related reading you'd recommend.

"**(one strong theory regarding this points to the sometimes (i.e. in some areas of the brain) antagonistic relationship between acetycholine and dopamine transmission, and the disinhibition of acetylcholine that occurs when dopamine-producing cells have been killed off. Hence, you get symptoms related to cholinergic excess -- for example extreme muscle tension, and very disrupted sleep.)"


Definitely interested in anything related to the DA-ACh interactions. Regarding the above theory, could stimulant therapy at therapeutic doses over time reduce overall number of DA-producing cells and generally disinhibit ACh and thereby produce a permanent nootropic effect (increased ACh expression)?

Edited by Rags847, 06 October 2008 - 01:29 AM.

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