25 replies to this topic

[HenryHH]

I'm thinking about buying the infamous ampakine CX516 from TLR, but I first wanted to get input from others who have taken it concerning subjective effects on memory and general intellectual enhancement. For those who have experimented with taking it, did you notice an improvement in your ability to retain and memorize information? Did it influence, either positively or negatively, your ability to concentrate/maintain focus while studying, attending class, etc.?

[skinniest200]

Here's a log from another member's trail of it - http://www.imminst.o...howtopic=23849

From what I saw it didn't look all that effective.

[bgwithadd]

There's really nothing to like about it. It is not being pursued because it has toomany side effects and a short halflife. The newer ampakines might be better, but I really think the whole idea of trying to sleep less is misguided and silly and won't get anyone very far.

[somethingtoxic]

Cortex openly displays interest in CX-717, CX-1739, and CX-1837 to a lessor extent. I wouldn't even waste your money and possible health on CX-516. Just wait young grasshopper - you have tons of CE's that you have yet to try that are in the non-experimental drug category.

[Pike]

If you're going to be using ANY ampakine or any -racetam, i think it's of utter necessity to take a look at this:

http://www.wipo.int/...mp;DISPLAY=DESC

That way, you can take one TENTH the dose of the ampakine for yourself and achieve the same effects with just a little bit of synergy.

[sonic death]

HenryHH, on 8-Feb 2009, 09:02 PM, said:

I'm thinking about buying the infamous ampakine CX516 from TLR...

TLR seems very fishy to me.  I exchanged emails with the company and, while the web site says that they make it themselves, in the email he said that they have worked with the supplier a long time and found the supplier very reliable.  Also, no credit cards or other professionally standard way to pay for purchases.  Only cash or money orders.  Aside from the obvious problems of recourse, it seems that TLR is not a real company, nor do they (he?) know how a company should conduct business.  I, too, am interested in CX516, but I wouldn't buy from TLR.  Best - SD

[somethingtoxic]

I actually offered the guy send me the product first, and he'd have my word that I'd pay. He agreed, but hasn't made any motions to get my shipping info - said he was off for a week or so. I'm just going to stay away from there for now. I don't badly need a RC.

[bgwithadd]

Pike, on 10-Feb 2009, 12:03 AM, said:

If you're going to be using ANY ampakine or any -racetam, i think it's of utter necessity to take a look at this:

http://www.wipo.int/...mp;DISPLAY=DESC

That way, you can take one TENTH the dose of the ampakine for yourself and achieve the same effects with just a little bit of synergy.

NMDA agonist = neurotoxic. No exceptions I know of. If anything you want an NMDA antagonist like magnesium or memantine. In most people with cognitive issues they have lots of cortisol or glutamate rolling around. Short term that causes memories but long term it hoses your brain.

[yowza]

bgwithadd, on 8-Mar 2009, 03:24 PM, said:

Pike, on 10-Feb 2009, 12:03 AM, said:

If you're going to be using ANY ampakine or any -racetam, i think it's of utter necessity to take a look at this:

http://www.wipo.int/...mp;DISPLAY=DESC

That way, you can take one TENTH the dose of the ampakine for yourself and achieve the same effects with just a little bit of synergy.

NMDA agonist = neurotoxic. No exceptions I know of. If anything you want an NMDA antagonist like magnesium or memantine. In most people with cognitive issues they have lots of cortisol or glutamate rolling around. Short term that causes memories but long term it hoses your brain.

Anything glutamate equals nuerotoxic at least from what I've read.  

I'm wondering how ampakines work differently.


There are 2 future drug categories looking into that I know of for attentional issues.

1) Obviously the ampakines being developed by cortex pharmaceuticals that will never reach the market.

2) The partial nicotine agonist medications developed by Targacept (like TC1734) that will never reach the market.

Why is this?  Because the fda keeps pushing them back, which really makes no sense considering the dangerous drugs that are out now...

Unfortunately there really is no alternative for methylphenidates and amphetamines out on the market.  Strattera and provigil are worthless and don't provide something new at all.  

As for Nootropics, those are worthless too.  Nothing works at all regardless of what the label may tell you.

CX516 is supposed to be safe but for some reason isn't out on the market at ALL.  
Someone needs to start using this compound and marketing it if it provides benefits that aren't currently available...

[bgwithadd]

yowza, on 10-Mar 2009, 10:00 PM, said:

bgwithadd, on 8-Mar 2009, 03:24 PM, said:

Pike, on 10-Feb 2009, 12:03 AM, said:

If you're going to be using ANY ampakine or any -racetam, i think it's of utter necessity to take a look at this:

http://www.wipo.int/...mp;DISPLAY=DESC

That way, you can take one TENTH the dose of the ampakine for yourself and achieve the same effects with just a little bit of synergy.

NMDA agonist = neurotoxic. No exceptions I know of. If anything you want an NMDA antagonist like magnesium or memantine. In most people with cognitive issues they have lots of cortisol or glutamate rolling around. Short term that causes memories but long term it hoses your brain.

Anything glutamate equals nuerotoxic at least from what I've read.  

I'm wondering how ampakines work differently.


There are 2 future drug categories looking into that I know of for attentional issues.

1) Obviously the ampakines being developed by cortex pharmaceuticals that will never reach the market.

2) The partial nicotine agonist medications developed by Targacept (like TC1734) that will never reach the market.

Why is this?  Because the fda keeps pushing them back, which really makes no sense considering the dangerous drugs that are out now...

Unfortunately there really is no alternative for methylphenidates and amphetamines out on the market.  Strattera and provigil are worthless and don't provide something new at all.  

As for Nootropics, those are worthless too.  Nothing works at all regardless of what the label may tell you.

CX516 is supposed to be safe but for some reason isn't out on the market at ALL.  
Someone needs to start using this compound and marketing it if it provides benefits that aren't currently available...

I don't think I'd say worthless, but how many people need help making long term memories? It's almost always working memory/attention that is the problem, and for that there is not much out that is very helpful.

[yowza]

Quote

I don't think I'd say worthless, but how many people need help making long term memories? It's almost always working memory/attention that is the problem, and for that there is not much out that is very helpful.

I agree.  That's why it's so frustrating to see that this was supposedly making headway to come out about 10 years ago but still hasn't reached the market as a supplement or anything.  There have been no dangers cited in any published reports and it seems the drug was unsuccessful for the most part due to it not being clinically effective enough (however, the extent of disability for the trial subjects I'm not sure of).  I've been looking at the cx516 on TLR as well.  If I had some extra cash on me I'd try this out but am out of work at the moment (due to getting laid off due to the economic downturn).  Hopefully, one of you guys (Who have money) will try it for yourself and report back to how it's effected you.

There've been only a couple reports on the internet that I've seen while googling from people crazy or rich enough to pay viwit, a company in china, about $2000 for a kg (I'll try and find the links later if anyone's interested).  It's too bad there isn't more feedback on the internet about this since yeah, there aren't too many nootropics that can really produce the desired effects you want them to.

Edited by chrono, 01 October 2010 - 07:04 PM.
fixed quote tag

[zomethingtoxic]

Still little feedback on that stuff...

[widit]

zomethingtoxic, on Jul 26 2009, 08:15 PM, said:

Still little feedback on that stuff...

this is coming from someone who works in a lab that uses this drug.  cx516 hasnt been pushed out due to it's potency cx516 hasnt come out because its very weak and thats the only drug the fda would approve what ur looking for is one of the higher numbered ampakines....

STRAIGHT FROM THE SOURCE

[yowza]

I've tried cxm716; a slightly altered version of CX516.  I haven't noticed much of an effect from that either.  I reported on it I believe on pg. 5 of this thread http://www.imminst.o...o...22135&st=70 if anyone's interested.  

Since I posted that experience, I've not really noticed a profound effect (although there seems to be a bell curved response to this stuff even meaning if you take too little or too much you won't get maximum effect).  I've taken it numerous times since and haven't seemed to notice any profound effect (although there very well could be something subtle going on; it's hard to describe).

widit, on Oct 13 2009, 11:58 PM, said:

zomethingtoxic, on Jul 26 2009, 08:15 PM, said:

Still little feedback on that stuff...

this is coming from someone who works in a lab that uses this drug. cx516 hasnt been pushed out due to it's potency cx516 hasnt come out because its very weak and thats the only drug the fda would approve what ur looking for is one of the higher numbered ampakines....

STRAIGHT FROM THE SOURCE

Good to have an informed opinion on cx516.

Any updated information that has come out on these higher numbered ampakines this year at all?

Edited by yowza, 15 October 2009 - 10:34 PM.

[matter_of_time]

Why don't you give Cerebrolysin a try, I bet it is far more active and don't have any toxic profile.

[yowza]

Quote

Why don't you give Cerebrolysin a try, I bet it is far more active and don't have any toxic profile.

I would but I'm experiencing financial issues at the moment. I haven't been able to buy any nootropics whatsoever. The only ones I've taken over the last few weeks is nicergoline+vinpocitine (2 noots that I got for cheap when I ordered from pharmacy1010 this past spring).

Cerebrolysin is something I wish to try I just can't at the moment. All I can really do is talk at the moment and hear from other people.

Edited by yowza, 17 October 2009 - 09:45 PM.

[yowza]

Back to the ampakines:

http://www.cortexpha...pipe/index.html



As one can see, there's not much progress being made on these at the moment. CX717 seems to have taken a backdoor route and has been changed into a medication administered through IV for "Respiratory Depression" after the FDA turned down the orally administered drug that would have been used for ADHD. They're finding new labels to slap onto this one to try and get it to market.

CX1739 is the drug being developed specifically for ADHD and is said to be more potent (in some regards) to CX717.

Not sure what cx1942 and cx1796 are all about, those just got added while others have been taken off the development chart entirely or are undergoing in-house testing before being included on the chart.


I've heard from somebody that nothing seems to ever get past phase 2 studies over the past decade for whatever reason. The CX717 drug has been listed as near the end of phase 2 development for years now it would seem...


The only 2 ampakines that may make it into phase 3 are those being made for schizophrenia and depression (the ones that cortex has a distributor for, as can see with the "org" acronym aren't pure ampakines but have some sort of benzo or other substance mixed in with it, it would seem).

As for high+low impact ampakines; high impact supposedly have an impact on brain growth factors (like NTF, BDNF, ect.). This link http://www.cortexpha...arch/index.html has images from a slideshow that compare high vs. low impact ampakines (note some of the ones noted here aren't still on the development pipeline chart) side by side as well as charts that give a general explanation for how ampakines work.

It'll be quite a while before these go out onto market. The company seems to rely on investors pretty heavily to get stuff down, if funds dry up (since cortex owns the rights to these substances for many years), ampakines may never be officially released to the public.
This may be likely especially after the number of disapointments over the years:
-the company focusing o developing CX516 for too long even though it was pretty obvious this didn't have the desired potency
-then later like in 2006 or 2007 the FDA turns down their other leading product-CX717

It's not looking too good on this front. Cortex is the only company right now that seems to be actively developing ampakines. There are a few larger companies (meaning they're able to distribute the drugs they develop without relying on someone else to license and distribute the product) like Eli Lilly have used compounds similar to Cortex's Ampakines but these aren't being actively developed in any clinical trials whatsoever and are only research compounds used in animal studies from what I can tell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It'll reach 2012 before the ampakines come out and we all know what that means. ...
(I don't really beleive in the whole 2012 thing)

Edited by yowza, 17 October 2009 - 09:45 PM.

[yowza]

Something interesting I've known about but forgot to share:

If you're a scientist, CX614 (a high impact ampakine) may be acquired.

Here's 3 variations of the CX614 compound:
http://www.trc-canad...;submit= Send+++

All 3 appear to be the same.

[hooter]

good luck screwing your body over with research chemicals

[zeroskater6979]

can't stop bitchin about courageous self-experimenters

[semi-retarded-individual]

yowza, on 23 October 2009 - 01:00 AM, said:

Something interesting I've known about but forgot to share:

If you're a scientist, CX614 (a high impact ampakine) may be acquired.

Here's 3 variations of the CX614 compound:
http://www.trc-canad...;submit= Send+++

All 3 appear to be the same.

I'm a "broscientist". Does that count?

[hooter]

zeroskater6979, on 17 March 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

can't stop bitchin about courageous self-experimenters

Trying to prevent people from slicing their lifespan in half in a forum about life extension? Why I never...

[yadayada]

The CX family are over-hyped. Nootropics with greater potential:
http://en.wikipedia....(PKR_inhibitor)
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Ciproxifan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%915IA

[zeroskater6979]

They're not over-hyped, there just aren't enough studies of the stronger ampakines on their cognitive enhancing effects. cortex is now focusing on sleep apnea for some reason, though both cx717 and cx1739 have been shown to be as or more effective at treating adhd compared to traditional stimulants.

[abelard lindsay]

hooter, on 17 March 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

zeroskater6979, on 17 March 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

can't stop bitchin about courageous self-experimenters

Trying to prevent people from slicing their lifespan in half in a forum about life extension? Why I never...

I'll either live forever or die trying.

[karma02]

abelard lindsay, on 12 April 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

hooter, on 17 March 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

zeroskater6979, on 17 March 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

can't stop bitchin about courageous self-experimenters

Trying to prevent people from slicing their lifespan in half in a forum about life extension? Why I never...

I'll either live forever or die trying.