54 replies to this topic

[Mike M]

Is there any demand for this stuff? I've had 1-2 people to ask me about it, but not sure if there is more demand than that. I have to bring in quite a bit if I carry this stuff. Just trying to find out who is currently selling and at what prices to see if I can be competitive. Any info appreciated.

[Invariant]

Is there any demand for this stuff? I've had 1-2 people to ask me about it, but not sure if there is more demand than that. I have to bring in quite a bit if I carry this stuff. Just trying to find out who is currently selling and at what prices to see if I can be competitive. Any info appreciated.

I'd definately like to try pram

[Guacamolium]

I'd buy a 20g (or so) bottle of pram from you if you get a 3rd party assay for it. I'd also be surprised that Parke-Davis doesn't intervene in the whole debacle.

[Mike M]

Any clue what this stuff used to sell for?

[jackinbox]

I'm an occasionnal Pram user. I would use more of it if it's wasn't that pricey.

[synapse]

We currently sell Pramiracetam at CerebralHealth.com in both bulk form and capsule form (Synaptine Ultra). As far as I know, we are the only ones to carry it in the US.

[yowza]

I found a source selling Pram. for about $48 for 15 g or $89 for 30 g.

This stuff seems pretty worthless though...

Most nootropic suppliers in the US wouldn't sell it if it wasn't.

Edited by yowza, 22 May 2009 - 10:21 PM.

[Guacamolium]

I'm an occasional Pram user. I would use more of it if it's wasn't that pricey.

I looked it up in the Merck Index, and the usual synthesis of it basically makes it pricey like that because of the steps and chemicals involved. Larger orders usually reduce prices from Chinese manufacturers, but the demand has to be there.

[Guacamolium]

This stuff seems pretty worthless though...

Yeah Pram (like Ani) is hit or miss with me. Sometimes it makes me racetam'd out - other times it leaves me foggy headed and directionless.

[yowza]

This stuff seems pretty worthless though...

Yeah Pram (like Ani) is hit or miss with me. Sometimes it makes me racetam'd out - other times it leaves me foggy headed and directionless.

I got that kind of effect using Noopept. Phenotropil I also had that to a certain extent just not as much since it seemed slightly more stimulating.

[skinniest200]

I'd buy a 20g (or so) bottle of pram from you if you get a 3rd party assay for it. I'd also be surprised that Parke-Davis doesn't intervene in the whole debacle.

I don't think they'd care enough to do anything other than maybe send a cease and desist letter, since I don't think really sell much (?any) of it in the US. Isn't it off-patent at this point anyways?

[Pike]

IMO, there isn't a great demand for this particular product, but that's mostly because of the price that most vendors demand. Demand might change at a lower price. In all honesty, after seeing some of the quotes that have been posted up here in the past for bulk importation, it might be a bit hard to sell in bulk at a competitive price. At this point, there is so much distrust among the nootropic vendors that many simply hesitate to buy from anyone that doesn't have an American third-party COA. Thus far, Relentless Improvement is the only American vendor that does this (and beyond, IMO, good company w/good business ethics), but some of their products might be a little out of range for consumers without an above-average budget.

TLR offers 20g bulk powder for $85 i believe
IAS offers it for something in the $50 range I think.
CE has it as described above me.
QHI offers the original Pramistar/Neupramir for something like $60.

From what I understand about you SmartPowders, were you not the original owner of BulkNutrition back when it used to be a respectable company? If so, then I think I might be more than willing to try yours if you match Team Life Research's price. I would have bought from them before, but their ethics have been brought into question before on this site regarding the safety of their "proprietary ampakine formula." If you decided to attach an American third-party CoA to that bulk Prami-, I don't see what might stop me from buying it as soon as I saw it. Actually, if you started attaching some American third-party testing lab COAs to all of your bulk products, you might end up quite a competition stealer. =D

I guess the best generalization I can make about the nootropics market right now is that there is good demand for almost everything, but so many shammy business ethics have been seen and still continue to go on (unfortunately from multiple vendors, too) that a lot of consumers are just flat out skeptical now.

[yowza]

TLR offers 20g bulk powder for $85 i believe
IAS offers it for something in the $50 range I think.
CE has it as described above me.
QHI offers the original Pramistar/Neupramir for something like $60.

Iron-dragon offers the cheapest prices for Pram. that I can tell.

[Guacamolium]

TLR offers 20g bulk powder for $85 i believe
IAS offers it for something in the $50 range I think.
CE has it as described above me.
QHI offers the original Pramistar/Neupramir for something like $60.

Iron-dragon offers the cheapest prices for Pram. that I can tell.

Fucking sweet. I use pram sparingly and I'm almost out. Good to know that there are options out there.

[Mike M]

It's on the way, have to get it tested once here and then I can sell. Probably looking at 3.5 weeks.

Yes, I'm the one that used to own BN/1fast. I have resvertrol being tested now

Edited by SmartPowders, 23 May 2009 - 03:11 AM.

[Ben]

It's on the way, have to get it tested once here and then I can sell. Probably looking at 3.5 weeks.

Yes, I'm the one that used to own BN/1fast. I have resvertrol being tested now

If you get it tested by an independent third party and have the documentation to prove it then I'm sure you will.

Is there some way we can be sure that what you're selling us is what was actually tested? The thing is, you can easily get the compound synthesised by two different countries, say one in Germany and one in China. You test the German compound, receive a COA in your companies name, etc, and sell us the Chinese product. It's not like you are a Relentless Improvement either. Your new company is relatively unknown and your last one has a history of dogy work and dubious COAs (provided by the Chinese manufacturers themselves).

The pharmaceutical business can't just be about trust. If I, or we, are going to be taking this substance we need a reassurance that it is what you say it is. I strongly believe that if you provide this you will see the kind of demand you want to. Relentless Improvement is a great exemplary case.

[synapse]

TLR offers 20g bulk powder for $85 i believe
IAS offers it for something in the $50 range I think.
CE has it as described above me.
QHI offers the original Pramistar/Neupramir for something like $60.

Iron-dragon offers the cheapest prices for Pram. that I can tell.

From what I can tell from their website, Iron Dragon is charging about $2966/kilogram for Pramiracetam. Currently at Cerebral Health we offer Prami for $990/kilogram. Usually prefer to sell in half kilo sizes but will do any custom orders based on the kilo price (ie. $99/100 grams).

[Mike M]

Is there some way we can be sure that what you're selling us is what was actually tested? The thing is, you can easily get the compound synthesised by two different countries, say one in Germany and one in China. You test the German compound, receive a COA in your companies name, etc, and sell us the Chinese product. It's not like you are a Relentless Improvement either. Your new company is relatively unknown and your last one has a history of dogy work and dubious COAs (provided by the Chinese manufacturers themselves).

The pharmaceutical business can't just be about trust. If I, or we, are going to be taking this substance we need a reassurance that it is what you say it is. I strongly believe that if you provide this you will see the kind of demand you want to. Relentless Improvement is a great exemplary case.

Your concern could be address about anything sold within the nutritional industry. All I can say is that there is plenty of history on the internet about me and what I do. I suggest checking that out and cast your own judgement from there. I was the first person to expand into the bulk powder business and regular nutritional supplements on the same site. I was the first person to test people's products (labelclaimstesting.com) that I carried. I got sued around 12 times for doing all that testing, which is why I eventually stopped doing it. If there is anyone in this industry that is a "marked" man, it's me. If I was caught underdosing or selling crap material, my competition would love it. Show me ONE test of anything I've ever sold that didn't meet claim.

As far as you bashing my previous company, that just makes me laugh. I sold in 2006. Go find bad feedback from the days that I owned it. To compare my 8 figure a year business to something like relentless is apples and oranges. You obviously know little about my company when I owned it. I've bought more lab standards than any company in this industry. People weren't even able to test for half the crap they sell till I paid to have the standards done. At the end of the day, all I can do is test the stuff I make (which I always have) and try to sell it. If you don't want t purchase it, not much I can do about it.

[Mike M]

I'm so glad that relentless is the industry standard. They have assay's from over TWO YEARS ago for their products. At what point do they need to refresh their testing? Most of those materials are expired by now, if they are still going off a 2 year test. I just looked at Idebenone as an example and it's two years old.

As far as the lab doing the testing, I got sued because of a test done by them. It was on molecular nutrition's protein in 2005. In the end, it was proven their test wasn't done correctly and it costs me quite a bit of money.

Glad they are the gold standard, looks like that won't be hard to beat :D

[outsider]

TLR offers 20g bulk powder for $85 i believe
IAS offers it for something in the $50 range I think.
CE has it as described above me.
QHI offers the original Pramistar/Neupramir for something like $60.

Iron-dragon offers the cheapest prices for Pram. that I can tell.

From what I can tell from their website, Iron Dragon is charging about $2966/kilogram for Pramiracetam. Currently at Cerebral Health we offer Prami for $990/kilogram. Usually prefer to sell in half kilo sizes but will do any custom orders based on the kilo price (ie. $99/100 grams).

Wow nice to know.

[NootropicEU]

TLR offers 20g bulk powder for $85 i believe
IAS offers it for something in the $50 range I think.
CE has it as described above me.
QHI offers the original Pramistar/Neupramir for something like $60.

Iron-dragon offers the cheapest prices for Pram. that I can tell.

From what I can tell from their website, Iron Dragon is charging about $2966/kilogram for Pramiracetam. Currently at Cerebral Health we offer Prami for $990/kilogram. Usually prefer to sell in half kilo sizes but will do any custom orders based on the kilo price (ie. $99/100 grams).

Wow nice to know.

You should be careful taking those non pharmaceutical grade nootropics. Especially if you are considering to take it long term... You never know when they might "forget" to get it tested or if they decide to fake their COA's. That does not happen with large pharmaceutical companies because they are under strict and constant control.

Pharmaceutical grade product like "Pramistart" is the safest choice If you care about your health...

Edited by anony4mous, 04 July 2009 - 12:11 AM.

[Mike M]

I got the lab results back, should have mine up this week

[Ben]

Iron-dragon offers the cheapest prices for Pram. that I can tell.


From what I can tell from their website, Iron Dragon is charging about $2966/kilogram for Pramiracetam. Currently at Cerebral Health we offer Prami for $990/kilogram. Usually prefer to sell in half kilo sizes but will do any custom orders based on the kilo price (ie. $99/100 grams).



Wow nice to know.



You should be careful taking those non pharmaceutical grade nootropics. Especially if you are considering to take it long term... You never know when they might "forget" to get it tested or if they decide to fake their COA's. That does not happen with large pharmaceutical companies because they are under strict and constant control.

Pharmaceutical grade product like "Pramistart" is the safest choice If you care about your health...

Agreed, don't take anything unless the seller can prove that it does not contain heavy metals or other contaminants (some perhaps slowly carcinogenic. It's possible).

I'd also avoid manufacturers that get defensive when asked for a COA. That should send off at least a few alarm bells. If you care at all about your health then I'd follow anony4mous's advice on this.

[outsider]

Agreed, don't take anything unless the seller can prove that it does not contain heavy metals or other contaminants (some perhaps slowly carcinogenic. It's possible).

I'd also avoid manufacturers that get defensive when asked for a COA. That should send off at least a few alarm bells. If you care at all about your health then I'd follow anony4mous's advice on this.

Yes, since Nootropi brought this to the front people are more aware about CAO. So that means this site doesn't provide any.

[sja_]

I just ordered some from Smart Powders.....pretty good price. Had to wait for shipping until the COA came in. Just a heads up incase some of you are still looking.

[moo]

Yeah, I also ordered from SP and it is very high quality/decent price. Very satisfied.

[Mike M]

All of the 3rd party tests and COA's should be up on the SmartPowders site by this time next week. My other projects have just been a priority of late. My poor IT guys are buried in projects. They should be getting around to it end of this week, start of next.

[sja_]

Been using S/P Pram for several months now. Definitley a thumbs up. T/A is amazing, product is top notch. Items ordered from S/P have been aniracetam, pramiracetam, idebenone. I also have friends ordering there now with the same response. IMO this is a good source.

[Mike M]

Appreciate it, metals testing is up as well.

[rollo]

Is there some way we can be sure that what you're selling us is what was actually tested? The thing is, you can easily get the compound synthesised by two different countries, say one in Germany and one in China. You test the German compound, receive a COA in your companies name, etc, and sell us the Chinese product. It's not like you are a Relentless Improvement either. Your new company is relatively unknown and your last one has a history of dogy work and dubious COAs (provided by the Chinese manufacturers themselves).

The pharmaceutical business can't just be about trust. If I, or we, are going to be taking this substance we need a reassurance that it is what you say it is. I strongly believe that if you provide this you will see the kind of demand you want to. Relentless Improvement is a great exemplary case.

Your concern could be address about anything sold within the nutritional industry. All I can say is that there is plenty of history on the internet about me and what I do. I suggest checking that out and cast your own judgement from there. I was the first person to expand into the bulk powder business and regular nutritional supplements on the same site. I was the first person to test people's products (labelclaimstesting.com) that I carried. I got sued around 12 times for doing all that testing, which is why I eventually stopped doing it. If there is anyone in this industry that is a "marked" man, it's me. If I was caught underdosing or selling crap material, my competition would love it. Show me ONE test of anything I've ever sold that didn't meet claim.

As far as you bashing my previous company, that just makes me laugh. I sold in 2006. Go find bad feedback from the days that I owned it. To compare my 8 figure a year business to something like relentless is apples and oranges. You obviously know little about my company when I owned it. I've bought more lab standards than any company in this industry. People weren't even able to test for half the crap they sell till I paid to have the standards done. At the end of the day, all I can do is test the stuff I make (which I always have) and try to sell it. If you don't want t purchase it, not much I can do about it.

I like what you have to say.

I would like to buy from SP but you're shipping prices to Canada are quite obscene; $30 to get 500g of Piracetam, price $18.99, shipped here.

You would have more loyal customers giving you uphold the standards you speak of and lower shipping to Canada