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Copper


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14 replies to this topic

Poll: Copper (32 member(s) have cast votes)

Copper

  1. yes (17 votes [53.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.12%

  2. no (15 votes [46.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.88%

Vote

#1 ajnast4r

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 01:19 AM


Copper

#2 ajnast4r

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 01:27 AM

i think copper should not be included... copper is very prevalent in the diet and higher copper intakes have been linked to higher mortality

#3 Blue

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 01:55 AM

i think copper should not be included... copper is very prevalent in the diet and higher copper intakes have been linked to higher mortality

Agree.

#4 niner

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:15 AM

i think copper should not be included... copper is very prevalent in the diet and higher copper intakes have been linked to higher mortality

Agree.

Also agree. If there is any copper, it shouldn't be over 0.5 mg. None would be ok with me. It might be valuable to think about the target market for this multi. Should it be people with a god-awful diet, or people with a pretty decent diet, or everyone? Maybe someone with a horrible diet and plastic plumbing would want some copper. Someone with a decent diet and/or copper plumbing might not want it. One size fits all results in compromises.

#5 okok

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:45 PM

Would taking resv. change this recommendation? Can't link it definitely, but i've also experienced mild tendon issues.

#6 Mind

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:49 PM

Initial discussions indicate thatthe target market will be us...people that have a pretty decent diet already.

#7 nameless

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:53 PM

I'm undecided if copper should be included or not. If the recommended zinc amount remains the same, probably not. Or if included, use a baby dose, such as .5mg or less, and ideally in a form that could potentially cause the least problems.

#8 waldemar

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 09:09 PM

I'd add it, because of the Zinc. But only a low dose, <<1mg. The 0,5 mg that some people here suggest are fine with me.

#9 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 03:43 PM

I think if zinc is included then a dose of copper must also be included, otherwise you are giving every user of this supplement a "push" in the direction of zinc-induced copper deficiency. It would be irresponsible to assume everyone requires this, particularly selling this in the American market with typical high meat intake and less than optimal vegetable intake.

Let's stay zinc-copper balance neutral.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 01 November 2009 - 03:48 PM.


#10 Blue

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 03:48 PM

I think if zinc is included then a dose of copper must also be included, otherwise you are giving every user of this supplement a "push" in the direction of zinc-induced copper deficiency. It would be irresponsible to assume everyone requires this, particularly selling this in the American market with typical high meat intake and less than optimal vegetable intake.

Let's stay "zinc-copper balance neutral".

Supposedly one of the advantages of at least some chelates is avoiding this interaction.

#11 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 04:05 PM

I think if zinc is included then a dose of copper must also be included, otherwise you are giving every user of this supplement a "push" in the direction of zinc-induced copper deficiency. It would be irresponsible to assume everyone requires this, particularly selling this in the American market with typical high meat intake and less than optimal vegetable intake.

Let's stay "zinc-copper balance neutral".

Supposedly one of the advantages of at least some chelates is avoiding this interaction.


They might avoid any direct interaction in the GI tract. However, the primary mechanism by which high intake of zinc causes copper defiency is through increased synthesis of metallothionein which blocks systemic absorption of copper. I see no reason that a zinc chelate would not cause this problem and I just ran across a patent for a method of treating copper excess / toxicity with zinc glycinate.

#12 ajnast4r

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 05:37 PM

optizinc claims not to reduce copper status... we should look into that a bit deeper.

the market for this vitamin wont be standard americans.. its going to be the life extension crowd who are most likely already eating quite a bit of vegetables and getting quite a bit of copper. as far as i know significant reduced copper absorption doesnt occur until zinc is in the 30-50mg range although i cant remember the specifics.. ill have to look it up later

my guess is that a well planned diet, low in red meat as would be most LE's diets, would have low-moderate amounts of zinc & higher amounts of copper.

i wouldnt be opposed to putting a small amount of copper in the supplement, but i think we should dig in a bit and try to find some epidimelogical studies assessing zinc and copper intake. when i get home from work ill check into this.

Edited by ajnast4r, 01 November 2009 - 05:38 PM.


#13 shazam

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 07:42 AM

optizinc claims not to reduce copper status... we should look into that a bit deeper.

the market for this vitamin wont be standard americans.. its going to be the life extension crowd who are most likely already eating quite a bit of vegetables and getting quite a bit of copper. as far as i know significant reduced copper absorption doesnt occur until zinc is in the 30-50mg range although i cant remember the specifics.. ill have to look it up later

my guess is that a well planned diet, low in red meat as would be most LE's diets, would have low-moderate amounts of zinc & higher amounts of copper.

i wouldnt be opposed to putting a small amount of copper in the supplement, but i think we should dig in a bit and try to find some epidimelogical studies assessing zinc and copper intake. when i get home from work ill check into this.


Interesting on the first count. I approve of more information gathering, but I'm not sure if it's there to be gathered.... apparantly the ideal balance to maintain is 10-15Zinc:1copper, though I would like to know if optizinc really does reduce this interaction. If so, I say we spring for L-optizinc for SURE.

For now though, with what I know, I would not be opposed to 500mcg of a glycinate form. Should keep my copper intake including food under 2mg, even with all the beans.

#14 Pike

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 09:31 AM

i'm going to vote a "conditional" yes. i think copper should be included only if we decide to put zinc in.

#15 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 03:38 AM

If there's going to be any copper added at all, it needs to be under 1mg. But at this point I think none would be better. I know it's not conclusive yet, but there's too many studies linking excess copper with Alzheimer's and not enough studies in the other direction. I seriously don't see 10mg of zinc having a major effect on copper levels.




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