• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo

Genetic manipulation makes supersmart rat


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Mind

  • Life Member, Director, Moderator, Treasurer
  • 19,050 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 14 November 2009 - 01:43 PM


The world's smartest rat created.

When Hobbie-J was still an embryo, a team led by Joe Z. Tsien at the Medical College of Georgia injected her with genetic material that caused the overexpression of the gene NR2B, which helps control the rate at which brain cells communicate.

The change allowed Hobbie's brain cells to communicate for a whisker of a second longer than those of normal rats. This, the researchers believe, is why she's much smarter than the average rat.


Of course, like always, the article ends with the normal warning that humans should not use this pathway to enhance themselves.

#2 forever freedom

  • Guest
  • 2,362 posts
  • 67

Posted 14 November 2009 - 06:53 PM

Hope this research moves forward, it looks promising. I'll wait for a nootropic targeting this gene.

Click HERE to rent this GENETICS advertising spot to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 KalaBeth

  • Guest
  • 100 posts
  • -3

Posted 14 November 2009 - 07:03 PM

cool!
Found the original article:

http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0007486


Skimming it, I didn't see any reference to the kind of "keeping emotionally traumatic long-term memories around" problems the Nat'l Geo writer cautions against, but then I'm no cognitive scientist and could easily have missed an implication in there. What do you think?


Culturally, I'm a little skeptical of the NG caution just because there seems a such a strong vein running through our culture of "Well *I* don't want to do it because it's (too expensive/risky/squick), but I don't want to feel like I'm (missing out/not as competitive/worse then you) so I don't want *you* doing it either."

You know, the "crabs in a bucket" story.

Kinda makes me wonder how the same thing is gonna play out with everything else talked about here.




The world's smartest rat created.

When Hobbie-J was still an embryo, a team led by Joe Z. Tsien at the Medical College of Georgia injected her with genetic material that caused the overexpression of the gene NR2B, which helps control the rate at which brain cells communicate.

The change allowed Hobbie's brain cells to communicate for a whisker of a second longer than those of normal rats. This, the researchers believe, is why she's much smarter than the average rat.


Of course, like always, the article ends with the normal warning that humans should not use this pathway to enhance themselves.



#4 Ward iron

  • Guest
  • 15 posts
  • 0

Posted 20 February 2010 - 06:22 PM

cool!
Found the original article:

http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0007486


Skimming it, I didn't see any reference to the kind of "keeping emotionally traumatic long-term memories around" problems the Nat'l Geo writer cautions against, but then I'm no cognitive scientist and could easily have missed an implication in there. What do you think?


Culturally, I'm a little skeptical of the NG caution just because there seems a such a strong vein running through our culture of "Well *I* don't want to do it because it's (too expensive/risky/squick), but I don't want to feel like I'm (missing out/not as competitive/worse then you) so I don't want *you* doing it either."

You know, the "crabs in a bucket" story.

Kinda makes me wonder how the same thing is gonna play out with everything else talked about here.




The world's smartest rat created.

When Hobbie-J was still an embryo, a team led by Joe Z. Tsien at the Medical College of Georgia injected her with genetic material that caused the overexpression of the gene NR2B, which helps control the rate at which brain cells communicate.

The change allowed Hobbie's brain cells to communicate for a whisker of a second longer than those of normal rats. This, the researchers believe, is why she's much smarter than the average rat.


Of course, like always, the article ends with the normal warning that humans should not use this pathway to enhance themselves.

the reasoning is bullshit, we remember negative memories better than ones with no emotional response. PTSD sound familiar to anyone. The most likely negative effects would be extremely vivid memories (that could and i stress could be almost hallucinatory) or getting the chicken song stuck in your head (though it said nothing about recall just recording so most likely neither will happen)

#5 Ghostrider

  • Guest
  • 1,996 posts
  • 56
  • Location:USA

Posted 25 February 2010 - 06:58 AM

cool!
Found the original article:

http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0007486


Skimming it, I didn't see any reference to the kind of "keeping emotionally traumatic long-term memories around" problems the Nat'l Geo writer cautions against, but then I'm no cognitive scientist and could easily have missed an implication in there. What do you think?


Culturally, I'm a little skeptical of the NG caution just because there seems a such a strong vein running through our culture of "Well *I* don't want to do it because it's (too expensive/risky/squick), but I don't want to feel like I'm (missing out/not as competitive/worse then you) so I don't want *you* doing it either."

You know, the "crabs in a bucket" story.

Kinda makes me wonder how the same thing is gonna play out with everything else talked about here.




The world's smartest rat created.

When Hobbie-J was still an embryo, a team led by Joe Z. Tsien at the Medical College of Georgia injected her with genetic material that caused the overexpression of the gene NR2B, which helps control the rate at which brain cells communicate.

The change allowed Hobbie's brain cells to communicate for a whisker of a second longer than those of normal rats. This, the researchers believe, is why she's much smarter than the average rat.


Of course, like always, the article ends with the normal warning that humans should not use this pathway to enhance themselves.

the reasoning is bullshit, we remember negative memories better than ones with no emotional response. PTSD sound familiar to anyone. The most likely negative effects would be extremely vivid memories (that could and i stress could be almost hallucinatory) or getting the chicken song stuck in your head (though it said nothing about recall just recording so most likely neither will happen)


Yes, that's true. We remember traumatic memories with much more clarity than pleasant ones, evolution designed us that way. If anyone else here listens to Futures in Biotech netcast on Twit.tv, they talked about being able to erase memories in rats a couple episodes ago. I could be wrong, but I think it was this episode here:

http://www.twit.tv/fib50

They talk about the memory erasure part near the beginning of the netcast, about 1/4 through.

#6 nightlight

  • Guest
  • 374 posts
  • 36
  • Location:Lexington MA

Posted 25 February 2010 - 01:18 PM

Hope this research moves forward, it looks promising. I'll wait for a nootropic targeting this gene.


Unsurprisingly, the ancient medicinal plant, tobacco, upregulates the nr2b activity by 83%. In addition to beneficial cognitive effects, tobacco smoke is the most potent youth elixir known to humans (see also an earlier imminst thread).

Posted Image

Edited by nightlight, 25 February 2010 - 01:24 PM.


#7 RighteousReason

  • Guest
  • 2,491 posts
  • -103
  • Location:Atlanta, GA

Posted 25 February 2010 - 01:53 PM

Bookworm, Run!

#8 Ward iron

  • Guest
  • 15 posts
  • 0

Posted 27 February 2010 - 04:01 AM

Hope this research moves forward, it looks promising. I'll wait for a nootropic targeting this gene.


Unsurprisingly, the ancient medicinal plant, tobacco, upregulates the nr2b activity by 83%. In addition to beneficial cognitive effects, tobacco smoke is the most potent youth elixir known to humans (see also an earlier imminst thread).

Posted Image

the only problems i have with smoking are A) carcinogens B) carbon monoxide C) other toxins (heavy metals, etc.) all of which can simply be solved by either nicotine patches or electronic cigarettes (though to get the full benefit some pharmaceutical company should make a extract and filter out any harmful chemicals kinda like how i could get reservatol by drowning my self to death in wine(hyperbolic so don't scream at me) or by taking a simple pill) (though they're still addictive and should be done in moderation but then again "everything in moderation"

Edited by Ward iron, 27 February 2010 - 04:17 AM.


#9 nightlight

  • Guest
  • 374 posts
  • 36
  • Location:Lexington MA

Posted 27 February 2010 - 12:38 PM

the only problems i have with smoking are A) carcinogens B) carbon monoxide C) other toxins (heavy metals, etc.) all of which can simply be solved by either nicotine patches or electronic cigarettes (though to get the full benefit some pharmaceutical company should make a extract and filter out any harmful chemicals kinda like how i could get reservatol by drowning my self to death in wine(hyperbolic so don't scream at me) or by taking a simple pill) (though they're still addictive and should be done in moderation but then again "everything in moderation"


Nicotine is merely one medicinal component of tobacco. Here are some of the other effects of tobacco smoke which are not due to nicotine:

1. Strong MAO B inhibition (40%).

2. Upregulation (near doubling) of key internal antioxidants and detox enzymes: glutathione, catalase and SOD.

3. Carbon monoxide in low concentration (as delivered by tobacco smoke) acts as a signaling mechanism in human biochemical networks to increase blood circulation, oxygenation and reduce blood clotting, inflammation, and apoptosis (see also on protective role of CO in pre-eclampsia and "Therapeutic CO" whitepaper, miracle medicine, anti-inflammatory, mithochondrial ROS inhibition, protects against endotoxic shock, multiple sclerosis, IBD, hypertension, neurotransmitter, beneficial digestive effects...).

4. Nitric oxide in low concentrations (as obtained from tobacco smoke) acts as neurotransmitter, signaling to cardiovascular system to increase blood supplies to peripheral tissues (Viagra effect).

5. Increase and slowdown of decline with age of DHEA, testosterone and pregnenolone (pdf).

6. Multitude of anti-inflammatory effects, only some of which are due to nicotine (e.g. additional therapeutic effects of tobacco smoke vs nicotine alone for rheumatoid arthritis in animal experiments)

7. Variety of neuro-protective effects in a review article (more on neurotrophic, neuroprotective, anti-amyloidosis effects).

Regarding various smoking 'scare stories' about 'heavy metals' or radioactive elements,... that's typical antismoking sleight of hand (pinhole vision trick). Namely, while there are trace amounts of such elements in tobacco smoke, they originate from soil, rain or plain air which affect all agricultural products, not just tobacco plant. The main difference is that a smoker absorbs only about 100mg of tobacco matter per pack of cigarettes (less than a third of aspirin pill spread over 75 m^2 of internal lungs surface), while we all ingest thousands times greater quantities of agricultural matter, with everything that it absorbed from soil & rain, every day from just eating and drinking. You ingest more of the same scary elements from one almond or blueberry than from a pack of cigarettes. More interestingly, considering the strong effect of upregulation of our internal detox & antioxidant enzymes (item #2 above), the detox rates for those same toxins are doubled in smokers, yielding in far greater detox gain than the extra 100mg of ingested tobacco smoke matter (with its trace ammounts of argicultural/soil toxins), resulting in a massive net plus for the smoker. This is analogous to having a gun in a war zone (or at night in the wrong part of a town) -- while there is theoretical chance that gun will explode when you fire it and injure you, it is still provides vastly greater net benefits of pretection in such environments.

In fact, the latter effect is behind much of the statistical correlations, on non-randomized (self-selected) samples, between smoking and 'smoking related diseases -- people exposed to industrial/environmental toxins & carcinogens, or those genetically sensitive to them, will instinctively use tobacco smoke as self-medication since the doubled detx rates provide tangible relief. Hence such statistical correlations on non-randomized samples are of the same kind as the correlations between any therapeutic/protective substance and subsequent health problems e.g. people using blood pressure meds will have more strokes than those not using them, while the ex-users of such meds will fall in between. See also related posts in other imminst threads: here, here, here, here, where much of of your concerns about smokings were discussed in detail (with refs to papers) -- in short: antismoking is a scam based on junk science and smoking is good for you.
  • WellResearched x 2

#10 Ward iron

  • Guest
  • 15 posts
  • 0

Posted 27 February 2010 - 05:17 PM

the only problems i have with smoking are A) carcinogens B) carbon monoxide C) other toxins (heavy metals, etc.) all of which can simply be solved by either nicotine patches or electronic cigarettes (though to get the full benefit some pharmaceutical company should make a extract and filter out any harmful chemicals kinda like how i could get reservatol by drowning my self to death in wine(hyperbolic so don't scream at me) or by taking a simple pill) (though they're still addictive and should be done in moderation but then again "everything in moderation"


Nicotine is merely one medicinal component of tobacco. Here are some of the other effects of tobacco smoke which are not due to nicotine:

1. Strong MAO B inhibition (40%).

2. Upregulation (near doubling) of key internal antioxidants and detox enzymes: glutathione, catalase and SOD.

3. Carbon monoxide in low concentration (as delivered by tobacco smoke) acts as a signaling mechanism in human biochemical networks to increase blood circulation, oxygenation and reduce blood clotting, inflammation, and apoptosis (see also on protective role of CO in pre-eclampsia and "Therapeutic CO" whitepaper, miracle medicine, anti-inflammatory, mithochondrial ROS inhibition, protects against endotoxic shock, multiple sclerosis, IBD, hypertension, neurotransmitter, beneficial digestive effects...).

4. Nitric oxide in low concentrations (as obtained from tobacco smoke) acts as neurotransmitter, signaling to cardiovascular system to increase blood supplies to peripheral tissues (Viagra effect).

5. Increase and slowdown of decline with age of DHEA, testosterone and pregnenolone (pdf).

6. Multitude of anti-inflammatory effects, only some of which are due to nicotine (e.g. additional therapeutic effects of tobacco smoke vs nicotine alone for rheumatoid arthritis in animal experiments)

7. Variety of neuro-protective effects in a review article (more on neurotrophic, neuroprotective, anti-amyloidosis effects).

Regarding various smoking 'scare stories' about 'heavy metals' or radioactive elements,... that's typical antismoking sleight of hand (pinhole vision trick). Namely, while there are trace amounts of such elements in tobacco smoke, they originate from soil, rain or plain air which affect all agricultural products, not just tobacco plant. The main difference is that a smoker absorbs only about 100mg of tobacco matter per pack of cigarettes (less than a third of aspirin pill spread over 75 m^2 of internal lungs surface), while we all ingest thousands times greater quantities of agricultural matter, with everything that it absorbed from soil & rain, every day from just eating and drinking. You ingest more of the same scary elements from one almond or blueberry than from a pack of cigarettes. More interestingly, considering the strong effect of upregulation of our internal detox & antioxidant enzymes (item #2 above), the detox rates for those same toxins are doubled in smokers, yielding in far greater detox gain than the extra 100mg of ingested tobacco smoke matter (with its trace ammounts of argicultural/soil toxins), resulting in a massive net plus for the smoker. This is analogous to having a gun in a war zone (or at night in the wrong part of a town) -- while there is theoretical chance that gun will explode when you fire it and injure you, it is still provides vastly greater net benefits of pretection in such environments.

In fact, the latter effect is behind much of the statistical correlations, on non-randomized (self-selected) samples, between smoking and 'smoking related diseases -- people exposed to industrial/environmental toxins & carcinogens, or those genetically sensitive to them, will instinctively use tobacco smoke as self-medication since the doubled detx rates provide tangible relief. Hence such statistical correlations on non-randomized samples are of the same kind as the correlations between any therapeutic/protective substance and subsequent health problems e.g. people using blood pressure meds will have more strokes than those not using them, while the ex-users of such meds will fall in between. See also related posts in other imminst threads: here, here, here, here, where much of of your concerns about smokings were discussed in detail (with refs to papers) -- in short: antismoking is a scam based on junk science and smoking is good for you.

thanks for the corrections just one question ) does the down regulation of MAO-B cause down regulation of dopamine and if so can one have the other effects without the nicotine and MAO-B inhibitor (sorry for speaking before i understood earlier)

#11 nightlight

  • Guest
  • 374 posts
  • 36
  • Location:Lexington MA

Posted 27 February 2010 - 08:05 PM

thanks for the corrections just one question ) does the down regulation of MAO-B cause down regulation of dopamine and if so can one have the other effects without the nicotine and MAO-B inhibitor (sorry for speaking before i understood earlier)


Paradoxically, tobacco smoke upregulates the dopamine & norepinephrine production and release, while simultaneously suppressing their breakdown via MAO B inhibition. There is a similar paradox regarding cholinergic effects of tobacco smoke -- the ACh agonist upregulating ACh receptors instead of downregulating them (more refs and here). It only demonstrates how how finely tuned the composition of this medicinal miracle plant is. The 'most precious gift of gods' indeed.

Click HERE to rent this GENETICS advertising spot to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#12 treonsverdery

  • Guest
  • 1,312 posts
  • 161
  • Location:where I am at

Posted 18 May 2010 - 11:13 PM

I prefer that humanity genetically engineer all humans to be at least three or four times cleverer than I am as my ignorance plus stupidity is truly vivid More than 4 times clever than me would be much better

IQ = performance age/chronological age
admitted to college at 13 18/13= 138 thus that would be a minimum human IQ 553
if I really stretch it its minimum human IQ 700 as acceptable if I'm over 180 as one person said

The transgenic NR2B is about 40 human IQ points
Posted Image

Edited by treonsverdery, 18 May 2010 - 11:22 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users