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For OCD/anxiety and dysthymia, Deplin, Metanx or Cerefolin NAC?


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#1 Cappa

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 01:24 PM


Not sure whether or not I believe in the whole methylation thing per se (as it relates to mental disorders - in my case, symptoms reveal under-methylation), but I figure this might be worth trying. Either way, even many conventional psychiatrists have started using methylfolate/Deplin as adjunctive treatment (I guess now that it is a "drug" it is no longer automatically considered "quackery" or "expensive urine"). Running labs might be a problem for a variety of reasons.

These are considered "medical foods." Which one should I try (first)?

Each Deplin® tablet contains:
  • Folic Acid as L-methylfolate: 7.5mg
Each Metanx® tablet contains:
  • Folic Acid as L-methylfolate: 2.8mg
  • B6 as Pyridoxal 5'-phosphate: 25mg
  • B12 as Methylcobalamin: 2mg
Each Cerefolin®NAC tablet contains:
  • Folic Acid as L-methylfolate: 5.6mg
  • B12 as Methylcobalamin: 2mg
  • N-acetylcysteine: 600mg
I'm fairly positive that insurance will cover this (will have to verify), so keep that in mind as well. Thanks.

Edited by Cappa, 30 December 2009 - 02:04 PM.

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#2 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 06:37 PM

If you're target is methylation I would go with the Metanx.
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#3 Cappa

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 07:31 AM

Yeah, I figured that was best. Deplin is the only one used as an adjunct in a psychiatric setting. Thanks.

Edited by Cappa, 31 December 2009 - 07:31 AM.

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#4 Super K

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 07:36 AM

Each Deplin® tablet contains:

  • Folic Acid as L-methylfolate: 7.5mg
Each Metanx® tablet contains:
  • Folic Acid as L-methylfolate: 2.8mg
  • B6 as Pyridoxal 5'-phosphate: 25mg
  • B12 as Methylcobalamin: 2mg
Each Cerefolin®NAC tablet contains:
  • Folic Acid as L-methylfolate: 5.6mg
  • B12 as Methylcobalamin: 2mg
  • N-acetylcysteine: 600mg


That looks like a lot of folate. Do you think you need that much ?
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#5 sentrysnipe

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 08:08 AM

it feels so weird reading them as rx
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#6 Cappa

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 02:48 PM

Each Deplin® tablet contains:

  • Folic Acid as L-methylfolate: 7.5mg
Each Metanx® tablet contains:
  • Folic Acid as L-methylfolate: 2.8mg
  • B6 as Pyridoxal 5'-phosphate: 25mg
  • B12 as Methylcobalamin: 2mg
Each Cerefolin®NAC tablet contains:
  • Folic Acid as L-methylfolate: 5.6mg
  • B12 as Methylcobalamin: 2mg
  • N-acetylcysteine: 600mg


That looks like a lot of folate. Do you think you need that much ?

I'm not sure. I can try taking one tablet to see if it has any effect (give it a couple of months?). My OCD is hideously bad right now and most of the obsessions are health related (have been for over a year now - since my health took a turn for the worse). I am less concerned about taking too much since it is methylfolate (so no conversion problems, "trapping" or any of that). I can't deal with doctors, labs, and all of that more than I already have to, not to mention that my primary physician is not going to have a clue about any of this. So screw it, I don't know. I'll try the damn thing and see what happens. I think sleep improvements would be a good indication of progress, although I'm not positive if that would be the first thing to improve. It's all hypothetical, anyway. I don't know if I believe in the methylation/mental illness thing. Too much chaos in my head.

Would do you think? Thanks.

Edited by Cappa, 31 December 2009 - 02:54 PM.

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#7 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 06:33 PM

I don't believe that methylation problems are a central cause for illness (except for maybe a few cases), but that doesn't mean it's not a problem. It could help to have it treated, and you especially want to try to fix it if homocysteine is high.

I used to have a fair amount of OCD tendencies. Not a full blown case, but enough where other people pointed it out. What helped in the long-run was meditation. I found that many of the causes of some of the complusivity was fears that I had ignored for ages, and that remanifested as these complusions, especially with organizing things. I had this obsession for the longest time that every single item I owned had to have a purpose, or be thrown out or sold. So I would constantly clean over and over. It really sucked, but meditation helped. I recommend trying it, and meditating specifically on your fears, letting them go through you.
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#8 VespeneGas

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 07:23 PM

Metanx looks good if methylation is the problem, I don't know how much relevance it has to OCD. NAC has solid evidence for its use against OCD, and might be an independent avenue worth pursuing.
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#9 Cappa

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Posted 01 January 2010 - 06:40 AM

I don't believe that methylation problems are a central cause for illness (except for maybe a few cases), but that doesn't mean it's not a problem. It could help to have it treated, and you especially want to try to fix it if homocysteine is high.

Yeah, I need to do labs but my primary physician isn't well versed on these matters and I'm in a weird place where doing seemingly necessary lab work/health investigations is feeding into my anxiety/obsessive thinking. I can go really crazy with all of this if I'm not careful (I already have, really) but then I have real health issues as well.

I used to have a fair amount of OCD tendencies. Not a full blown case, but enough where other people pointed it out. What helped in the long-run was meditation. I found that many of the causes of some of the complusivity was fears that I had ignored for ages, and that remanifested as these complusions, especially with organizing things. I had this obsession for the longest time that every single item I owned had to have a purpose, or be thrown out or sold. So I would constantly clean over and over. It really sucked, but meditation helped. I recommend trying it, and meditating specifically on your fears, letting them go through you.

Sounds like the opposite of hoarding. My brother's like that. Meditation doesn't seem to work too well for me (nor do relaxing techniques/exercises/audio). I get some benefits but they're transient at best. I should try sticking to a program in a long-term context even if I don't get immediate benefits as that might be more efficacious in my case.

Edited by Cappa, 01 January 2010 - 06:43 AM.

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#10 Cappa

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Posted 01 January 2010 - 06:42 AM

Metanx looks good if methylation is the problem, I don't know how much relevance it has to OCD. NAC has solid evidence for its use against OCD, and might be an independent avenue worth pursuing.

That's what i was thinking. And anyways, Methylfolate and Methyl-B12 work on a different methylation pathway than P5P (which I can always buy as a supplement), so I might get the best of all worlds by trying Cerefolin NAC. Or I could do one Cerefolin NAC and one Metanx, but that might be overdoing things.

Check this: http://clinicaltrial...0539513?order=2

They are taking 3 grams per day, though.

Edited by Cappa, 01 January 2010 - 06:45 AM.

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#11 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 01 January 2010 - 08:19 PM

I don't believe that methylation problems are a central cause for illness (except for maybe a few cases), but that doesn't mean it's not a problem. It could help to have it treated, and you especially want to try to fix it if homocysteine is high.

Yeah, I need to do labs but my primary physician isn't well versed on these matters and I'm in a weird place where doing seemingly necessary lab work/health investigations is feeding into my anxiety/obsessive thinking. I can go really crazy with all of this if I'm not careful (I already have, really) but then I have real health issues as well.

I used to have a fair amount of OCD tendencies. Not a full blown case, but enough where other people pointed it out. What helped in the long-run was meditation. I found that many of the causes of some of the complusivity was fears that I had ignored for ages, and that remanifested as these complusions, especially with organizing things. I had this obsession for the longest time that every single item I owned had to have a purpose, or be thrown out or sold. So I would constantly clean over and over. It really sucked, but meditation helped. I recommend trying it, and meditating specifically on your fears, letting them go through you.

Sounds like the opposite of hoarding. My brother's like that. Meditation doesn't seem to work too well for me (nor do relaxing techniques/exercises/audio). I get some benefits but they're transient at best. I should try sticking to a program in a long-term context even if I don't get immediate benefits as that might be more efficacious in my case.


I was was a hoarder first. I used to have boxes of free newstand magazines. Then I just snapped and went to the opposite extreme. During first year of college I always felt like I had to clean before doing things like homework and other stuff. In retrospect, it was pretty bad, but seemed completely logical to me at the time. Meditation definately isn't a short-term thing. Took me months to see results, and I wasn't even doing it for the OCD tendencies, they just happened to go away as a result. You definately have to be in it for the long hall. I'll send you a link for some tapes that I like. If you don't like it, there's 1,000,001 ways to meditate and I am sure you can find yours.
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#12 Cappa

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 03:39 AM

I was was a hoarder first. I used to have boxes of free newstand magazines. Then I just snapped and went to the opposite extreme. During first year of college I always felt like I had to clean before doing things like homework and other stuff. In retrospect, it was pretty bad, but seemed completely logical to me at the time. Meditation definately isn't a short-term thing. Took me months to see results, and I wasn't even doing it for the OCD tendencies, they just happened to go away as a result. You definately have to be in it for the long hall. I'll send you a link for some tapes that I like. If you don't like it, there's 1,000,001 ways to meditate and I am sure you can find yours.

Yeah, mine's hoarding OCD as well (which is a different kind of OCD). Several other people in my family have the same kind of OCD but are bigger on physically hoarding than I am. Even though the hoarding isn't too bad for me, I'm always thinking in terms of "lack" (i.e. getting the most out of experiences, etc.). Since I've had these health problems it's become that I feel I'm lacking the intrinsic "stuff" (health, essence, "life force", whatever) to leave a good impression when dealing with other people (they might think less of me) and to live a fulfilling life. I'm fascinated that meditation helped your OCD so much. Usually people with OCD have a harder time with it (not as suggestible, stubborn, etc.).

Edited by Cappa, 03 January 2010 - 03:41 AM.

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#13 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 02:41 PM

I was was a hoarder first. I used to have boxes of free newstand magazines. Then I just snapped and went to the opposite extreme. During first year of college I always felt like I had to clean before doing things like homework and other stuff. In retrospect, it was pretty bad, but seemed completely logical to me at the time. Meditation definately isn't a short-term thing. Took me months to see results, and I wasn't even doing it for the OCD tendencies, they just happened to go away as a result. You definately have to be in it for the long hall. I'll send you a link for some tapes that I like. If you don't like it, there's 1,000,001 ways to meditate and I am sure you can find yours.

Yeah, mine's hoarding OCD as well (which is a different kind of OCD). Several other people in my family have the same kind of OCD but are bigger on physically hoarding than I am. Even though the hoarding isn't too bad for me, I'm always thinking in terms of "lack" (i.e. getting the most out of experiences, etc.). Since I've had these health problems it's become that I feel I'm lacking the intrinsic "stuff" (health, essence, "life force", whatever) to leave a good impression when dealing with other people (they might think less of me) and to live a fulfilling life. I'm fascinated that meditation helped your OCD so much. Usually people with OCD have a harder time with it (not as suggestible, stubborn, etc.).


My Dad's a hoarder too, I've helped him get over some of it but it's definately still there.

I never knew that OCD people weren't suggestable or more stubborn. Got any links to that? But if it's true, when I really started to meditate, I had some experiences in my life that happened to me that made me question everything I knew. I esentially came to the conclusion that almost everything I know is BS and that I have to start anew. I suppose that would leave one open to suggestion. :|?

Like I said, fixing OCD problems wasn't that goal of my meditation, I didn't even realize I had them. It just happened when I started connecting fears I had ignored. Here's an idea: put something in front of you misaligned, or whatever would trigger an OCD reaction. Sit in front of it for 20 minutes without fixing it (if you can) try to calm yourself and keep asking yourself why you need to fix it, and what you're afraid of if you don't fix it. Don't know if it will help, but it's probably a good exercise either way. Try it more than once though.

Anyway, I have to reiterate, this is a long-term thing, so don't abandon it if it doesn't help right away.
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#14 sdsgec

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 04:40 AM

I was was a hoarder first. I used to have boxes of free newstand magazines. Then I just snapped and went to the opposite extreme. During first year of college I always felt like I had to clean before doing things like homework and other stuff. In retrospect, it was pretty bad, but seemed completely logical to me at the time. Meditation definately isn't a short-term thing. Took me months to see results, and I wasn't even doing it for the OCD tendencies, they just happened to go away as a result. You definately have to be in it for the long hall. I'll send you a link for some tapes that I like. If you don't like it, there's 1,000,001 ways to meditate and I am sure you can find yours.


Sounds like my situation. I've not been an *extreme* horder, but my mum is... and a disorganised one, so I'm constantly walking by all the mess, thinking about it but find it hard to start and deal with it. Unfortunately I too don't feel like I can start something until it's cleaned, so the state I'm in is constantly making me anxious. I do occasionally freak out and start piling it into the car and dump it in a clothing bin, but even then I come back and look at the stuff, sigh, and say 'oh dear'.
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#15 bobman

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 05:25 AM

I've taken NAC and didn't like the effect it had. It has a marked depressant effect. I could see it being useful for OCD (I was diagnosed at 15 with milder case alongside anxiety, although both have spontaneously resolved). If I was still as anxious as I had been I might enjoy taking it. However both issues are under control, and maybe it is because I am not over-stimulated that I experienced some brain fog while taking NAC.

Edited by bobmann, 04 June 2010 - 05:30 AM.

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