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Meds that could reduce heart rate on Adderall?


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#1 InquilineKea

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 06:19 PM


So i take Adderall and it really helps, but I can't take the doses that would be optimal for me due to the tachycardia that I get from Adderall. So I'm thinking of asking for a prescription of either beta blockers or ACE inhibitors. My blood pressure is fine (105/70)ish. Some studies have shown that ACE inhibitors can reduce heart rate at the high end, so I'm partial to them, but i'm not sure if my psychiatrist would be convinced (plus they might reduce my blood pressure to low levels). Beta blockers are more convincing (as they're more well-tested), although they increase blood glucose levels (and any increase in blood glucose above 85 mg/dl is associated with increased mortality). In the end, I'm considering biting the bullet and taking beta blockers for a couple of years, but I'd like to think of other solutions.

but wikipedia says this:

Beta blockers must not be used in the treatment of cocaine, amphetamine, or other alpha adrenergic stimulant overdose. The blockade of only beta receptors increases hypertension, reduces coronary blood flow, left ventricular function, and cardiac output and tissue perfusion by means of leaving the alpha adrenergic system stimulation unopposed.


So I'm really somewhat concerned. My heart is supposedly normal but I got two false positives, and the presence of false positives may still be more potentially troublesome than the presence of no false positives. I really don't want to have cardiac enlargement or sudden death, but most of the time, I'm academically nonfunctional without stimulants. But chronic tachycardia might cause this too.

==
Right now I'm thinking of Carvedilol (since it doens't seem to affect blood glucose) or an ACE inhibitor. I fully know that Adderall is somewhat neurotoxic, but I really need it for now (I might switch to ritalin + deprenyl later).
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#2 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 07:25 PM

So i take Adderall and it really helps, but I can't take the doses that would be optimal for me due to the tachycardia that I get from Adderall. So I'm thinking of asking for a prescription of either beta blockers or ACE inhibitors.


Dexedrine or Vyvanse (less peripheral stimulation, lower heart rate) would be preferable to piling on extra medications.
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#3 M4Y0U

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 07:55 PM

So i take Adderall and it really helps, but I can't take the doses that would be optimal for me due to the tachycardia that I get from Adderall. So I'm thinking of asking for a prescription of either beta blockers or ACE inhibitors.


Dexedrine or Vyvanse (less peripheral stimulation, lower heart rate) would be preferable to piling on extra medications.


If you want to avoid tachycardia you need to stay away from any amphetamine chemical classes ( that's including levo-amphetamine and dextro-amphetamine like Dexedrine and Vyvanse ). You might want to check out for Modafinil which is way less stimulating and not in the amphetamine family, i had no tachycardia on Modafinil. If you want to counteract or at least reduce the tachycardia from amphetamines naturally you might want to take taurine and chamomile or even Valerian root extract. I don't recommend you add up beta-blockers or ACE inhibitors.

Best regards,
M4
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#4 meursault

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 11:21 PM

I do not know if this is safe, but a friend of mine took l-theanine with adderall (non-simultaneously at my recommendation) and said that most of the peripheral stimulation was gone.
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#5 navyblue

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 01:01 AM

L-Theanine increases GABA levels. The GABA increase would reduce some of the anxiety caused by the Adderall therefore reducing the heart rate. I'm not sure however how a GABA increase would affect the effectiveness of the Adderall as far as focus, concentration, and motivation are concerned.
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#6 Retro7531

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 06:56 AM

First off I'm not a doctor or any kind of official expert on this but I would definitely stay away from the Beta Blockers, based on that wikipedia article. It sounds like the blood pressure and heart rate increasing effects caused by adderall are predominantly caused by it's effects on the Alpha receptor (by way of Norepinephrine increase perhaps?). Maybe an alpha blocker would be ideal. A friend of mine has been prescribed to adderall for 3 years now and this last fall began experiencing tachycardia which got so bad as to cause chest pains. His doctor wasn't very open to the idea of giving a prescription blood pressure medication because he is so young (~20 yrs old). There are some over the counter supplements that help however (but are no replacement for cases of serious blood pressure and heart rate problems). He would use Hawthorne Berry extract, which is presumed to be a natural ACE inhibitor as well as a calcium channel blocker. Most people say you need to use it for a while for it to become effective but for him he noticed effects within 1 hr of the first time taking it. Also Valerian Root extract works well to reduce heart rate, bp and anxiety by inhibiting the break down of GABA in the brain, which is the same inhibitory neurotransmitter which is increased by benzodiazepines such as xanax and valium (altho valerian root is much weaker). Be warned, long term use of Valerian root some suspect impairs your memory (through long term GABAa receptor stimulation perhaps). L-theanine is another one he used, it is a precursor to GABA, and is known to encourage alpha waves in the brain (relaxed but alert). L-theanine may also help control glutamate excitotoxicity (this isn't confirmed). Glutamate levels are increased with amphetamines and one of the ways it causes damage. Finally I read somewhere L-theanine helps prevent Calcium ions from binding to the dopamine receptors (which is how the receptors become less sensitive to amphetamines, altho memantine is the most effective option for this). From his experience L-theanine had little to no noticeable impairment on ability to concentrate or focus.

It sounds like Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) has less of an impact on heart rate and blood pressure increases but I dont know anyone who has tried it. I would say you should probably try and reduce your dosage or try changing medications rather than risk the negative effects on ur health but I know for some they can't even begin to comprehend that as an option. Deprenyl (an MAOI inhibitor) sounds promising as an alternative but some seem to think it's overrated, and not all doctors are comfortable prescribing it. Focalin (dexmethylphenidate) is another option you may consider. It is the right handed (dextro) molecule (diasteromer) of the racemic mixture of the two chemicals found in ritalin (methylphenidate). It is more potent than ritalin but not quite the same as adderall. Be careful tho, my friend had worse tachycardia on Focalin than Adderall.

If the fast heart rate is accompanied by anxiety/uneasiness than you might consider taking some kind of anti-anxiety medication, or finding the source of the anxiety (perhaps a vitamin deficiency caused by the increased demand adderall puts on certain nutrients). My friend started taking a prescription medication for anxiety after a few months of experiencing the tachycardia and trying other meds, in addition to the supplements mentioned above. He had used xanax with good success but couldn't get a prescription for daily use because of it's addictive properties (it impaired memory somewhat anyway). He was prescribed buspar (a 5-ht agonist) at a low dosage (15mg per day, split between two doses a day). He found that this helped lower his heart rate a lot and also helped considerably with the anxiety, but don't take too much because it will give you a sort of brain fog or lack of motivation. I hope this helps, he has a wealth of knowledge on the subject, from side effect management to reducing neurotoxicity. I know this wasn't the best laid out response but it is rare that I post on forums, if you have any questions feel free to ask.
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#7 InquilineKea

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 04:44 PM

Wow, thanks for all the replies everyone!

Yeah, my doctor seems uncomfortable with prescribing Dexedrine, so that's out (there are Vyvanse studies in my area but I don't want to run the risk of getting on placebo). Also, I asked about Provigil but he doesn't believe that it's efficacious (I've tried it through other means and I like it a lot though). I tried Concerta before Adderall, but it has more side effects for the same effect.

Yeah, I thought that alpha blockers might be better than beta blockers since catecholamines are alpha receptor agonists. There just seems to be very little information on alpha blockers and I only trust drugs that have been well-documented. But I'll look for more info. I'm thinking that Carvedilol might be an OK beta-blocker since it also has some alpha-1-blocking activity and since it's a vasodilator rather than vasoconstrictor.

I have some L-theanine, I should try some of that more.

Wow, Retro, I'm interested in further information too, especially about reducing Adderall neurotoxicity. I recently found a pdf that said that melatonin helped reduce its neurotoxicity (from hyperthermia). There has been a huge debate over the neurotoxicity of Adderall + piracetam on the imminst forums.

Edited by inquilinekea, 07 February 2010 - 04:50 PM.

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#8 yoyo

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 05:10 AM

well if you can't convince your doctor he's being retarded about no scripting d-amp, try asking for for lys-dex-amphetamine
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#9 lynx

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 02:59 PM

atenolol
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#10 Wellington

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 04:03 AM

Your doctor's unwillingness to prescribe dextroamphetamine is definitely retarded. I used adderall about 3-4 days a week for a couple years (skipping my 4 month summers, and 5 week winter breaks), and started using Dexedrine about a year ago. The dexedrine definitely has a negligable affect on my heart rate compared to the adderall.

Edit, added just after I posted: I highly recommend using whatever stimulant you are prescribed about 3-4 days per week at the most, and don't use the medication during any breaks from school or whatever requires a lot of attention and motivation. Make sure you get a lot of cardio workouts in. This is what I've been doing for the past few years and it works flawlessly. I've never had to increase my dosage.

Edited by Wellington, 16 February 2010 - 04:07 AM.

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#11 chrono

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 11:50 AM

You should probably try to minimize your intake of amphetamines if they're giving you cardiovasular symptoms. Perhaps your focus should be on finding other agents, or a combination of nootropics/cognitive enhancers. Perhaps these could help enough that you could limit your adderall dose sufficiently to prevent tachycardia?

Dexedrine is very rarely prescribed (unless your in Australia), I'm not surprised your doctor didn't want to give it to you. Modafinil is great, and healthier in the long run (especially for you, it seems); using it for ADD is considered off-label, but it's somewhat common to do so. Perhaps you could try to find another doctor who is willing to script you this?

Edited by chrono, 16 February 2010 - 11:53 AM.

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