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What are all the possible symptoms of acetylcholine overload?


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#1 MrSpud

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 04:53 PM


I'm still sorting out getting the dosage right when taking piracetam and various choline sources. What exactly are the symptoms to look for that indicate acetylcholine overload?

I know that massive overload would be like nerve gas poisoning and that lesser overload might cause the opposite symptoms of traditional anticholinergics (i.e. anticholinergics can slow down parastalysis in the gut, inhibit sweating and dry out mucous membranes, dilate the pupils, etc... so theoretically too much acetylcholine could cause the opposite such as sweating, drooling, stomach cramps, constricted pupils, etc...) but what would milder overloads of acetylcholine cause?
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#2 JasRonq

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 05:41 PM

Q&A on Acetylcholine Overload

This page seems to suggest that the first symptom of too many choline sources or acetylcholinesterase would be headaches caused by muscle tension. Considering that it is the neurotransmitter used for muscle contractions that seems very reasonable.
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#3 mdma

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 10:06 PM

Your lose you hair, and you die
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#4 MrSpud

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 10:51 PM

Your lose you hair, and you die


Ut oh....Posted Image
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#5 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 01:45 AM

Nerve gases are acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, so, death.
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#6 MrSpud

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 03:27 AM

Ok, we have headaches and, in extrame cases, death.

I was looking for more along the lines of what other symptoms would be present with mild acetylcholine overlead. The headache is a good one to look for. I just went ahead and looked up the common side effects of cholinesterase inhibitors at http://health.yahoo....--hw136473.html and found the following:
In general, most people seem to tolerate cholinesterase inhibitors very well. The most common side effects are:

■Nausea.
■Diarrhea.
■Vomiting.
■Indigestion.
■Abdominal pain.
■Loss of appetite and weight loss.
Less common side effects include insomnia, fatigue, and muscle cramps. Side effects tend to be mild and usually go away within a few weeks after treatment with the medicine is started.

Any other symptoms to be on the lookout for when experimenting with finding the "just right" dosage of choline sources when taking piracetam?
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#7 JasRonq

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 05:58 AM

Most of that looks to be SLUDGE symptoms which is what you go through for nerve gas before it kills you. I imagine that there is a difference in severity there but that would then support that SLUDGE to a more minor degree is what you might start getting after tension headaches.
Sarin: Biological effects
The short- and long-term symptoms experienced by those affected included:
* coma
* convulsions
* death
* difficulty breathing
* disturbed sleep and nightmares
* extreme sensitivity to light
* foaming at the mouth
* high fevers
* influenza-like symptoms
* loss of consciousness
* loss of memory
* loss of bowel control
* nausea and vomiting
* paralysis
* post-traumatic stress disorder
* respiratory problems
* seizures
* uncontrollable trembling
* vision problems, both temporary and permanent

Convulsions, breathing difficulty, loss of bowel control, paralysis, respiratory problems, and uncontrollable trembling all seem related to the fact that acetyl-choline is the neurotransmitter for muscles and disturbing that wrecks muscle control. I would assume trembling, clenching, cramping and weakness to be possible milder version of that then. Memory loss and other mental problems stem from its role in memory which make sense too. In the case of nerve gases like sarin, death usually occurs from asphyxiation which occurs do to the inability to control the diaphragm, a muscles.

Looking at MrSpud's list and this one gastrointestinal disturbances seem to be likely too at some point.

Edited by JasRonq, 15 February 2010 - 05:59 AM.

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#8 chrono

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 11:19 AM

ha, I think "death" is outcome of taking too much of anything.

I get excess ACh when combining Alpha GPC and ALCAR on the same day, even with a low dosage of each. I experience tension in the tops of my shoulders, into the sides of my neck. A headache appears with larger or multiple doses.

Neck tension and headaches are mentioned by a number of people on mind & muscle, usually related to ALCAR in some way, so I don't think they're the less common side effects in our area of concern.
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#9 chainwheel

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:25 PM

yeah... I found that I can either do ALCAR or Alpha GPC, but not both for the same exact reasons Chrono... I had perfected my piracetam to choline.. then threw in the ALCAR and it was like aRRRGGh!

Edited by chainwheel, 07 January 2012 - 09:26 PM.

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#10 deeptrance

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 08:37 PM

■Nausea.
■Diarrhea.
■Vomiting.
■Indigestion.
■Abdominal pain.
■Loss of appetite and weight loss.
Less common side effects include insomnia, fatigue, and muscle cramps. Side effects tend to be mild and usually go away within a few weeks after treatment with the medicine is started.

These are such common side effects of drugs, changes in diet, vitamins, food allergies --- it's frustrating to try to figure out what is actually causing any given symptom. Someone mentioned headaches and neck pain. I'm getting that from sitting at my computer looking for information about nutrition and nootropics!

I think the side effect of "death" is most commonly associated with "life." In fact, there is a one-to-one correlation. Pretty strong evidence.
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#11 gray.bot

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:46 AM

I'll tell you what happens. You feel like someone came up to you and punched you in the stomach. Times that feeling by 12 hours.

Tension up and down the neck, on the back of the head, mild headaches, aching temples, back of eyes, inside head, and general headachey type symptoms.

Eating doesn't fix it. Sleeping doesn't fix it. Masturbating doesn't fix it (and come on that's a cure-all!). 20mg morphine fixes it.

If you would like to experience this then take 3 grams of choline, 3 grams of ALCAR and 400mcg of huperzine.
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#12 kache

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:56 AM

Most of that looks to be SLUDGE symptoms which is what you go through for nerve gas before it kills you. I imagine that there is a difference in severity there but that would then support that SLUDGE to a more minor degree is what you might start getting after tension headaches.
Sarin: Biological effects
The short- and long-term symptoms experienced by those affected included:
* coma
* convulsions
* death
* difficulty breathing
* disturbed sleep and nightmares
* extreme sensitivity to light
* foaming at the mouth
* high fevers
* influenza-like symptoms
* loss of consciousness
* loss of memory
* loss of bowel control
* nausea and vomiting
* paralysis
* post-traumatic stress disorder
* respiratory problems
* seizures
* uncontrollable trembling
* vision problems, both temporary and permanent

Convulsions, breathing difficulty, loss of bowel control, paralysis, respiratory problems, and uncontrollable trembling all seem related to the fact that acetyl-choline is the neurotransmitter for muscles and disturbing that wrecks muscle control. I would assume trembling, clenching, cramping and weakness to be possible milder version of that then. Memory loss and other mental problems stem from its role in memory which make sense too. In the case of nerve gases like sarin, death usually occurs from asphyxiation which occurs do to the inability to control the diaphragm, a muscles.

Looking at MrSpud's list and this one gastrointestinal disturbances seem to be likely too at some point.

Uhoh.
TIme to drop my choline intake drastically.
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#13 renfr

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:20 AM

- SLUDGE
- DUMBELLS
- Tension on neck, arms
- Slight headache
- Stomach pain
- Bronchoconstriction

I concur with the analogy that it feels like you were punched on the stomach.

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#14 kache

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:47 AM

Cut my choline intake by 70%. After a couple days of adapting, it definitely became better.
I was apparently taking far too much choline.
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#15 goldsilver

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:58 AM

death
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#16 BioFreak

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:46 PM

funny, I was getting a stiff neck from too much cissus, and and from not supplementing with sulfur and methyl donors while on tyrosine + cofactors + 5-htp... but not (yet) from acetylcholine increasing supps.

I imagine some of these symptoms are descriptive of acetylcholine deficit as well, at least memory loss, fatigue, muscle weakness?
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#17 FreelyFlourish

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:41 PM

I took Huperzine for a while and experience very stiff neck, head aches, derealization, confusion etc still to this day from taking it. (It was in WindMill- Focus Formula) Not sure iif I have excess ACH or what. Would taking piracetam and then feeling better mean my ACH levels were too high?
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#18 Sagasu

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 03:37 PM

FreelyFlourish, I suspect that piracetam would help you out if your ACh were too high.

This thread has been extremely informative and helpful. Thanks to all involved. I've also come across information also pointing to depression being associated with overly high ACh levels - a topic which has been covered here as well http://www.longecity...oline-and-mood/
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#19 Bron

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 01:39 AM

I take between 1.5 grams and 3 grams of ALCAR a day. Mainly because I love it. Clears brain fog, tastes good in tea and gives me focus.

Now I was thinking of taking Ortho Mind which has 500mg of citicoline... going to have to once again do some more research before I change anything.

And shit, on top of that I was going to take lecithin... phosphatidylcholine gets hydrolyzed and the choline head group breaks off right?

So I am guessing all of these together would be a real bad idea?
?
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#20 against_all_odds

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:43 PM

400mcg Huperzine A
500mg CDP Choline
500mg Uridine
7.5G Lecithin
1.5G ALCA

Been taking this combo for a while. A few headaches here and there, which may be caused by a variety of things. So much for acetylcholine overload..
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#21 lourdaud

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 11:36 AM

400mcg Huperzine A
500mg CDP Choline
500mg Uridine
7.5G Lecithin
1.5G ALCA

Been taking this combo for a while. A few headaches here and there, which may be caused by a variety of things. So much for acetylcholine overload..


Eh.. and you're in good mood still?
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#22 against_all_odds

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:33 PM


400mcg Huperzine A
500mg CDP Choline
500mg Uridine
7.5G Lecithin
1.5G ALCA

Been taking this combo for a while. A few headaches here and there, which may be caused by a variety of things. So much for acetylcholine overload..


Eh.. and you're in good mood still?


I would describe my mood as normal. No wild mood swings either way. Will be interesting to see how i feel once i drop a few of these. First stop ALCA.
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