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Nicotine and Vasoconstriction


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#1 chrono

  • Location:New England

Posted 20 February 2010 - 04:15 AM


Vasoconstriction is probably the most undesirable adverse effect of transdermal nicotine use. I find this agent quite useful for its dopaminergic qualities, and would like a better idea of the consequences of its use.

How severe an effect does nicotine cause? What problems can vasoconstriction lead to, in immediate terms and with prolonged exposure? Is impact greater if you're out of shape or older?

How can you tell when it's happening, or if it's occurring to an extent that could be a problem? I've only noticed cold extremities after using patches (~4mg) for about 10 days straight. Can blood pressure be used as a predictor, to any extent?

Are there health practices which can reduce the intensity and/or impact? Are there any nootropic (ginkgo, vinpocetine, yohimbe) or benign pharmaceutical agents which could counteract vasoconstriction, or is it going to put stress on the system no matter what? How can one gauge if a balance has been reached?


I think this is an important question to iron out a little better, and I'd appreciate any insight from those with a better understanding of physiology.

Edited by chrono, 20 February 2010 - 04:16 AM.

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#2 winston Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

Posted 24 March 2010 - 09:26 PM

I'm wondering the same thing.
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#3 Nicholas Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

Posted 24 March 2010 - 10:58 PM

I donīt think that cold hands necessarily mean that you have high blood pressure.
People on blood pressure lowering drugs often get cold feets and hands as well.
But well it is known to increase it, but not in such a harmful way that smoking does.
Compared to that you are taking a healthy supplement :)

I wonder however if it is a good long term solution because your body will likely get adjusted to the current dose in time, requiring a higher does to produce the same effect (increasing the risk of side effects).

You could check out pomegranate juice. Itīs believed to be very beneficial to the cardiovascular system, removing arteriosclerosis and lower blood pressure too.
There are a ton of things to try.
Why not get one of those toys to monitor pressure daily?
Then you can try various things and see how it works. (bear in mind that most medicine take quite some time for beneficial effects to show though)

Edited by Nicholas, 24 March 2010 - 11:03 PM.

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#4 winston Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

Posted 25 March 2010 - 01:59 AM

The cold hands and feet would probably be caused by vasoconstriction.
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#5 chrono Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 08:28 PM

Why not get one of those toys to monitor pressure daily?


Is there a necessary correlation between increased blood pressure and harmful levels of vasoconstriction?
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#6 LabRat84 Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

Posted 01 April 2010 - 02:17 AM

I use nicotine gum occasionally (2mg pieces 2-3 times/week) for a little boost. The other night I must have been chewing too fast and got very lightheaded and experienced vertigo whenever I moved my head--symptoms of nicotine excess. I have a blood pressure monitor; it was pretty high (140/90). My resting BP is healthy, 110-120/60-70. I took clonidine.
I've started with memantine so will probably lay off the nicotine for a few weeks until its effect kick in. (Memantine causes an upregulation of alpha7 nicotinic receptors.)
I'd rather not get addicted to nicotine, personally. If you do want to try it and you've never smoked, though, go for the 2mg gum from a generic manufacturer (you shouldn't pay more than $20-25 for 100 pieces). Chew slowly and allow for buccal, as opposed to sublingual absorption.

Clonidine can probably help with the blood pressure. Hydergine might help with the vasoconstriction, but I've never tried clonidine and hydergine together. Orthostatic hypotension would be definitely be a concern.

Edited by LabRat84, 01 April 2010 - 02:19 AM.

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#7 chrono Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 03:01 AM

I use nicotine gum occasionally (2mg pieces 2-3 times/week) for a little boost. The other night I must have been chewing too fast and got very lightheaded and experienced vertigo whenever I moved my head--symptoms of nicotine excess. I have a blood pressure monitor; it was pretty high (140/90). My resting BP is healthy, 110-120/60-70. I took clonidine.
I've started with memantine so will probably lay off the nicotine for a few weeks until its effect kick in. (Memantine causes an upregulation of alpha7 nicotinic receptors.)
I'd rather not get addicted to nicotine, personally. If you do want to try it and you've never smoked, though, go for the 2mg gum from a generic manufacturer (you shouldn't pay more than $20-25 for 100 pieces). Chew slowly and allow for buccal, as opposed to sublingual absorption.

Clonidine can probably help with the blood pressure. Hydergine might help with the vasoconstriction, but I've never tried clonidine and hydergine together. Orthostatic hypotension would be definitely be a concern.


Thanks for the ideas. Just so I'm clear, is orthostatic hypotension a concern for nicotine or for hydergine and clonidine? Just for the record, hydergine can cause liver fibrosis and heart valve problems if used with regularity, so that may not be the best solution if we're talking about weekly+ usage.

Also, if you're doing it that frequently, transdermal patches might be preferable with regard to dental health.

I'm limiting myself to a 3-4mg patch slice once a week or so, until I have a better understanding of this aspect.

Edited by chrono, 01 April 2010 - 03:02 AM.

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#8 LabRat84 Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

Posted 01 April 2010 - 03:08 AM

I use nicotine gum occasionally (2mg pieces 2-3 times/week) for a little boost. The other night I must have been chewing too fast and got very lightheaded and experienced vertigo whenever I moved my head--symptoms of nicotine excess. I have a blood pressure monitor; it was pretty high (140/90). My resting BP is healthy, 110-120/60-70. I took clonidine.
I've started with memantine so will probably lay off the nicotine for a few weeks until its effect kick in. (Memantine causes an upregulation of alpha7 nicotinic receptors.)
I'd rather not get addicted to nicotine, personally. If you do want to try it and you've never smoked, though, go for the 2mg gum from a generic manufacturer (you shouldn't pay more than $20-25 for 100 pieces). Chew slowly and allow for buccal, as opposed to sublingual absorption.

Clonidine can probably help with the blood pressure. Hydergine might help with the vasoconstriction, but I've never tried clonidine and hydergine together. Orthostatic hypotension would be definitely be a concern.


Thanks for the ideas. Just so I'm clear, is orthostatic hypotension a concern for nicotine or for hydergine and clonidine? Just for the record, hydergine can cause liver fibrosis and heart valve problems if used with regularity, so that may not be the best solution if we're talking about weekly+ usage.

Also, if you're doing it that frequently, transdermal patches might be preferable with regard to dental health.

I'm limiting myself to a 3-4mg patch slice once a week or so, until I have a better understanding of this aspect.

Orthostatic hypotension in a concern anytime you use a vasodilator, and especially when you combine it with another antihypertensive.
Any sources for long-term effects of hydergine beyond Wikipedia?
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#9 chrono Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 03:35 AM

Any sources for long-term effects of hydergine beyond Wikipedia?

Not too sure about the exact nature of risk in terms of frequency, dosage, etc., as I never considered taking it due to the possibility of serious complications and benefits that can be had elsewhere. But here's a paper:

Fibrosis due to ergot derivatives: exposure to risk should be weighed up.

(1) Ergot derivatives are used for a variety of indications, including migraine, Parkinson's disease, endocrine disorders, and cognitive and neurosensory deficits in elderly people. (2) Fibrosis is a common complication of treatment with ergot derivatives. (3) Retroperitoneal fibrosis is the commonest form. Pleuropulmonary and pericardial fibrosis also occur. (4) Cardiac valve damage has been linked to some ergot derivatives. (5) Fibrosis occurs during long-term treatment. (6) Renal, pulmonary and cardiac complications can be serious. The fibrosis is often reversible if the drug is stopped quickly. (7) In practice, this risk of serious adverse effects tips the scales against these drugs for poorly established indications such as cognitive and neurosensory deficits in elderly people. The possibility of drug induced fibrosis should be considered at the first sign of renal, cardiac or pulmonary fibrosis in a patient on ergot derivatives.

PMID: 12472101


Searching 'hydergine fibrosis' on this forum yields lots of discussions, as well. Hydergine, Health Risks is particularly salient.

Edited by chrono, 28 September 2010 - 09:12 AM.
fixed quote tag

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#10 LabRat84 Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

Posted 01 April 2010 - 05:15 AM

Any sources for long-term effects of hydergine beyond Wikipedia?

Not too sure about the exact nature of risk in terms of frequency, dosage, etc., as I never considered taking it due to the possibility of serious complications and benefits that can be had elsewhere. But here's a paper:

Fibrosis due to ergot derivatives: exposure to risk should be weighed up.

(1) Ergot derivatives are used for a variety of indications, including migraine, Parkinson's disease, endocrine disorders, and cognitive and neurosensory deficits in elderly people. (2) Fibrosis is a common complication of treatment with ergot derivatives. (3) Retroperitoneal fibrosis is the commonest form. Pleuropulmonary and pericardial fibrosis also occur. (4) Cardiac valve damage has been linked to some ergot derivatives. (5) Fibrosis occurs during long-term treatment. (6) Renal, pulmonary and cardiac complications can be serious. The fibrosis is often reversible if the drug is stopped quickly. (7) In practice, this risk of serious adverse effects tips the scales against these drugs for poorly established indications such as cognitive and neurosensory deficits in elderly people. The possibility of drug induced fibrosis should be considered at the first sign of renal, cardiac or pulmonary fibrosis in a patient on ergot derivatives.

PMID: 12472101

Searching 'hydergine fibrosis' on this forum yields lots of discussions, as well. Hydergine, Health Risks is particularly salient.

Cool, thanks. I don't think I'm going to make hydergine a part of my daily stack, although I will see how it works short-term. I agree, though, with benefits being found elsewhere. There are other substances and activities that increase cerebral bloodflow.
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#11 nito Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

Posted 01 April 2010 - 05:21 AM

Any sources for long-term effects of hydergine beyond Wikipedia?

Not too sure about the exact nature of risk in terms of frequency, dosage, etc., as I never considered taking it due to the possibility of serious complications and benefits that can be had elsewhere. But here's a paper:

Fibrosis due to ergot derivatives: exposure to risk should be weighed up.

(1) Ergot derivatives are used for a variety of indications, including migraine, Parkinson's disease, endocrine disorders, and cognitive and neurosensory deficits in elderly people. (2) Fibrosis is a common complication of treatment with ergot derivatives. (3) Retroperitoneal fibrosis is the commonest form. Pleuropulmonary and pericardial fibrosis also occur. (4) Cardiac valve damage has been linked to some ergot derivatives. (5) Fibrosis occurs during long-term treatment. (6) Renal, pulmonary and cardiac complications can be serious. The fibrosis is often reversible if the drug is stopped quickly. (7) In practice, this risk of serious adverse effects tips the scales against these drugs for poorly established indications such as cognitive and neurosensory deficits in elderly people. The possibility of drug induced fibrosis should be considered at the first sign of renal, cardiac or pulmonary fibrosis in a patient on ergot derivatives.

PMID: 12472101

Searching 'hydergine fibrosis' on this forum yields lots of discussions, as well. Hydergine, Health Risks is particularly salient.

Cool, thanks. I don't think I'm going to make hydergine a part of my daily stack, although I will see how it works short-term. I agree, though, with benefits being found elsewhere. There are other substances and activities that increase cerebral bloodflow.


like if i may ask?
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#12 LabRat84 Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

Posted 01 April 2010 - 05:53 AM

Any sources for long-term effects of hydergine beyond Wikipedia?

Not too sure about the exact nature of risk in terms of frequency, dosage, etc., as I never considered taking it due to the possibility of serious complications and benefits that can be had elsewhere. But here's a paper:

Fibrosis due to ergot derivatives: exposure to risk should be weighed up.

(1) Ergot derivatives are used for a variety of indications, including migraine, Parkinson's disease, endocrine disorders, and cognitive and neurosensory deficits in elderly people. (2) Fibrosis is a common complication of treatment with ergot derivatives. (3) Retroperitoneal fibrosis is the commonest form. Pleuropulmonary and pericardial fibrosis also occur. (4) Cardiac valve damage has been linked to some ergot derivatives. (5) Fibrosis occurs during long-term treatment. (6) Renal, pulmonary and cardiac complications can be serious. The fibrosis is often reversible if the drug is stopped quickly. (7) In practice, this risk of serious adverse effects tips the scales against these drugs for poorly established indications such as cognitive and neurosensory deficits in elderly people. The possibility of drug induced fibrosis should be considered at the first sign of renal, cardiac or pulmonary fibrosis in a patient on ergot derivatives.

PMID: 12472101

Searching 'hydergine fibrosis' on this forum yields lots of discussions, as well. Hydergine, Health Risks is particularly salient.

Cool, thanks. I don't think I'm going to make hydergine a part of my daily stack, although I will see how it works short-term. I agree, though, with benefits being found elsewhere. There are other substances and activities that increase cerebral bloodflow.


like if i may ask?

Exercise, for one. Nicergoline (although it's another ergoloid derivative), theophylline, and probably Ginko. Niacin is a vasodilator. And alcohol, although alcohol is not a nootropic.
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#13 somethingtropic Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 12:09 AM

Why not get one of those toys to monitor pressure daily?


Is there a necessary correlation between increased blood pressure and harmful levels of vasoconstriction?


Yes, by all means there is. My best friends step-dad would smoke cigs all day long. Then his left hand went numb, it stayed numb. The doctors told him it was the vasoconstriction of nicotine causing it. He just kept smoking. Then he had to have the tip of his pinky finger removed because the piece of flesh DIED from being so starved for oxygen and essential nutrients.

Last I checked he had about three fingers left on that hand.

Unless I misinterpreted your question about blood pressure, but the answer would still be yes, and also, if somebody already gave a simple answer to that - I hadn't read through all of the thread yet.
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#14 somethingtropic Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 12:11 AM

Any sources for long-term effects of hydergine beyond Wikipedia?

Not too sure about the exact nature of risk in terms of frequency, dosage, etc., as I never considered taking it due to the possibility of serious complications and benefits that can be had elsewhere. But here's a paper:

Fibrosis due to ergot derivatives: exposure to risk should be weighed up.

(1) Ergot derivatives are used for a variety of indications, is often reversible if the drug is stopped quickly. (7) In practice, this risk of serious adverse effects tips the scales against these drugs for poorly established indications such as cognitive and neurosensory deficits in elderly people. The possibility of drug induced fibrosis should be considered at the first sign of renal, cardiac or pulmonary fibrosis in a patient on ergot derivatives.

PMID: 12472101

Searching 'hydergine fibrosis' on this forum yields lots of discussions, as well. Hydergine, Health Risks is particularly salient.


That's why I take Hydergine sparingly. I love its effects too much.
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#15 chrono Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 01:24 AM

Nope, not many answers to my question yet. I'm using transdermal nicotine a couple of times a week at the moment, because I don't have anything else which increases dopamine (well, besides manganese). I find the effects quite useful, but I'd really like to know if I'm doing any damage to my cardiovascular system.

In re: blood pressure, I was wondering if you could use it as an accurate metric for how much vasoconstriction is occurring, or if it could be happening but not show up as increased BP.

Pyritinol is a strong cerebral vasodilator, and any sympathomimetics taken with it that are vasoconstrictors will cause a major contraindication in the phosphodiesterase inhibitor pathways, which causes all kinds of problems. It sucks because pyritinol is easily in my top 3 favs as far as cognitive enhancers go.

This is something I was quite curious about. One of the possible countermeasures I was picturing for vasoconstriction was taking something like vinpocetine, pyritinol or hydergine along with it, to potentially "balance out" blood vessel size.

Is this always counterindicted for the reason you mention, or was it more specific to something like ritalin?

I've been reading some pretty tempting account of hydergine as well, I'm sure I'll take a crack at it sometime to see if it's worth adding as an occassional-use CE.

Edited by chrono, 25 April 2010 - 01:26 AM.

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#16 somethingtropic Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 01:46 AM

Nope, not many answers to my question yet. I'm using transdermal nicotine a couple of times a week at the moment, because I don't have anything else which increases dopamine (well, besides manganese). I find the effects quite useful, but I'd really like to know if I'm doing any damage to my cardiovascular system.

In re: blood pressure, I was wondering if you could use it as an accurate metric for how much vasoconstriction is occurring, or if it could be happening but not show up as increased BP.

Pyritinol is a strong cerebral vasodilator, and any sympathomimetics taken with it that are vasoconstrictors will cause a major contraindication in the phosphodiesterase inhibitor pathways, which causes all kinds of problems. It sucks because pyritinol is easily in my top 3 favs as far as cognitive enhancers go.

This is something I was quite curious about. One of the possible countermeasures I was picturing for vasoconstriction was taking something like vinpocetine, pyritinol or hydergine along with it, to potentially "balance out" blood vessel size.

Is this always counterindicted for the reason you mention, or was it more specific to something like ritalin?

I've been reading some pretty tempting account of hydergine as well, I'm sure I'll take a crack at it sometime to see if it's worth adding as an occassional-use CE.


Oh Okay, I think I understand your problem here. When you have powerful vasoconstriction going on, but wanted, you want for there for to be a positive vasodilating response going on too. Try something subtle. Lets play kids and say that anything that challenges the dragon will often disappoint, but things as simple as garlic or extra water intake will be fine.

It's when you pair two gladiators together, then expect a battle - inside you.
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#17 bacopa Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 11:02 AM

nicotine is now thought to be carcinogenic....
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#18 haha Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

Posted 25 April 2010 - 12:24 PM

nicotine is now thought to be carcinogenic....

If you could supply source for carcinogenic nature of nicotine that would be really appreciated, i had a look around. I found that nicotine anti apoptoic nature may provide an environment were cancer may develop more easily. Nitro-nicotine appeared to be carcinogenic, does the body process things into nitros or more specifically nitronicotine.
interesting a guy on this forum nutted on about the intense anti cancer effect of smoking in everything but the lungs, he produced some interesting rat studies that claimed equivalenent death rate between smoking rats and non-smoking rats, with the smoking rats mainly dieing from lung cancer but having far less cancer in other areas of the body. He attributed this prooxidant mediated endogenous antioxidant effect. There might be some really interesting alkaniods that mediate this effect, maybe even nicotine or the MOA-bs in tabbacco. Might have been rubbish tho.

I have read that ergoloids that are dehydrogenated at some specific location dont cause fibrosis, cant remmber where, but think hydergine is dehydrogenated. Sounds like a mint vasodilator to me, because it is used to stimulate metabolism in the lab, maybe its a phosphtdylesterase inhibitor type 4? Vinpocetine anti d1 effect put me off. Bodybuilders are nuts about the arginine for its NOS effecting vasodilation, could just careful eating be sufficient. Some NOs probally being good for brain function but high levels are worth evoiding, many vasodilators may mediate there effects through NOs anyway. It always struck me that adding another drug to protect you from the orginal is seldom going to be worthwhile(leave to Doc). Caffaine cause pretty intense visoconstriction

Getting blood flow into your body and brain is so vital to life and health, comprimising it seems a pitty. But if you doing really good exercise anarobic aswell and have a warm house etc some is probally acceptable.

Trying not to change subject
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#19 bacopa Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 12:38 PM

this might help and makes some of the points you make

http://toxsci.oxford...ent/full/79/1/1

it could damage the cell linings

http://www.infopleas...i/A0835624.html

I read the carcinogen on wisegeek site, now I can't find it, you can google it and maybe find it
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#20 chrono Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 06:48 PM

Thanks for that paper, dfowler. Some of those issues haven't been discussed here much, and give me pause about nicotine. Especially worrying is the possibility of chromosomal aberration and clastogenesis, though I'll have to do some more reading to see how inconsistent those results were. The generation of reactive oxygen species seems a lot more certain. Carcinogenesis seems somewhat unlikely without concurrent damage done by other chemicals in smoke. And anti-apoptosis would only be a concern if used pretty consistently, I think.

I'm getting some mild hangover effects from nicotine (again, with only about 1/6 of a 21mg patch) if I use it more than once a week. I wake up in the night much groggier/brain-fogged than normal, and upon waking am much colder than I should be given the temperature. Back to normal an hour or so after waking, though.

I think I'll cut this back to much more occasional use, and ideally combine with NAC or another antioxidant.
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#21 LabRat84 Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

Posted 25 April 2010 - 11:24 PM

Thanks for that paper, dfowler. Some of those issues haven't been discussed here much, and give me pause about nicotine. Especially worrying is the possibility of chromosomal aberration and clastogenesis, though I'll have to do some more reading to see how inconsistent those results were. The generation of reactive oxygen species seems a lot more certain. Carcinogenesis seems somewhat unlikely without concurrent damage done by other chemicals in smoke. And anti-apoptosis would only be a concern if used pretty consistently, I think.

I'm getting some mild hangover effects from nicotine (again, with only about 1/6 of a 21mg patch) if I use it more than once a week. I wake up in the night much groggier/brain-fogged than normal, and upon waking am much colder than I should be given the temperature. Back to normal an hour or so after waking, though.

I think I'll cut this back to much more occasional use, and ideally combine with NAC or another antioxidant.


Sorry to hear about your hangover/withdrawal effects. Hope you find a good dosing mechanism. What about low-strength gum?

A meta-analysis of the cognitive effects of nicotine was published yesterday: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20414766

Here's the summary of results. I bolded the "Hedge's g" (effect size) and 95% confidence interval.
Table 1 Summary effect size data for nine performance domains
Performance domain/ k/ N/ Hedges's g/ 95% CI/ Q/ I2/ T
Fine motor 7 294 0.16 +0.02/+0.31 8.22 27.0 0.10
Alerting attention-accuracy 9 207 0.34 +0.18/+0.50 8.45 5.4 0.06
Alerting attention-RT 13 311 0.34 +0.17/+0.52 20.26 40.8 0.20
Orienting attention-accuracy 5 78 0.13 −0.41/+0.67 16.86 76.3 0.53
Orienting attention-RT 11 187 0.30 +0.15/+0.44 7.35 0 0
Short-term episodic memory-accuracy 8 199 0.44 +0.17/+0.71 9.65 27.4 0.20
Long-term episodic memory-accuracy 12 436 0.17 −0.13/+0.47 58.11 81.1 0.45
Working memory-accuracy 9 155 −0.11 −0.46/+0.24 35.95 77.7 0.47
Working memory-RT 10 281 0.34 +0.14/+0.53 18.17 50.5 0.21
RT=response time
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#22 nito Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

Posted 25 April 2010 - 11:38 PM

so in summary: Nicotine is effective in the brain?
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#23 LabRat84 Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

Posted 25 April 2010 - 11:45 PM

so in summary: Nicotine is effective in the brain?

Yes, it improves all the categories above, except working memory accuracy (which is pretty neutral).
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#24 haha Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

Posted 26 April 2010 - 12:21 AM

Wow those look to be strong improvements, Are you wearing your patchs at night?
I get the best sleep and fully lucid dreaming on nicotine but I do feel grogy in the morning, I felt this was mediated Via REM.
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#25 bacopa Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 12:25 AM

ok so now what to believe? That study showed obvious cognitive benefit while other studies show it can lead to dementia's? Or is that just from smoking...ugh...
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#26 bacopa Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 12:44 AM

http://uk.answers.ya...08010841AACaLHS

http://ezinearticles...N...u&id=289253

You might take these as biased or true, or with a grain of salt.

http://www.timesonli...icle4327222.ece that one seems good

Edited by dfowler, 26 April 2010 - 12:48 AM.

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#27 LabRat84 Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

Posted 26 April 2010 - 01:19 AM

ok so now what to believe? That study showed obvious cognitive benefit while other studies show it can lead to dementia's? Or is that just from smoking...ugh...

The meta-analysis only looked at the short-term effects of nicotine in non-smokers. Whether nicotine is bad for the brain long-term is a different question.
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#28 haha Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

Posted 26 April 2010 - 02:09 AM

I was an addicted smoker for four years in my teens, I always suspected that nicotine wasnt the bases of my chemical dependence.
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#29 bacopa Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 03:59 AM

ok so now what to believe? That study showed obvious cognitive benefit while other studies show it can lead to dementia's? Or is that just from smoking...ugh...

The meta-analysis only looked at the short-term effects of nicotine in non-smokers. Whether nicotine is bad for the brain long-term is a different question.


but so many articles subtly saying it could or is good long term, from what I read. So I think nicotine in moderate doses maybe very beneficial and is why they are creating receptor specific nicotine drugs for cognitive gains and even neuroprotection. However I could be wrong, and long term could equate with cognitive problems/decline.

Either way, I take the nicotine gum, now in moderate to low doses as an after effect response of a severe addiction to cigarettes for 4 years whilst very depressed and psychotic.
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#30 chrono Re: Nicotine and Vasoconstriction

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 10:33 AM

"Hangover" was probably too strong a word. Just some slightly lingering adverse effects the next morning. I've only noticed this twice, and it was when I used a patch slice twice within 3 days. It's not that much of a bother, but I'm on the lookout for anything that may indicate unhealthy vasoconstriction. I expect it's affecting me more than most, as I'm very out of shape due to a very protracted back injury.

I might try gum, though it's a more unhealthy ROA. It also seems like it would deliver nicotine in a burst compared to the slow transdermal release.

Honestly, the unpleasantness of the effects themselves are more than offset by the effect nicotine has on my dreams. Long, cinematic and vivid all night. I feel much more engaged, perhaps like my executive functions are more intact, rather than "watching myself." I had a very short spontaneous lucid dream a week or two back for the first time in my life, on a night after nicotine. Piracetam dreams as well when I haven't had it in a while, but nicotine is much more intense over the course of the whole night. If I actually forget to take the patch off, it's sometimes almost too intense. I enjoy even my bad dreams, but it's something to consider if you don't.

A meta-analysis of the cognitive effects of nicotine was published yesterday: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20414766

Interesting results! Honestly, I don't notice much cognitive or focus enhancement from nicotine. I take it most for the dopamine release, slight though it is compared to amphetamine salts. I get greatly enhanced focus right now from a combination of piracetam/ALCAR, but the dopaminergic component is missing when it comes to task avoidance and initiating social contact. On the Attention Network Task spectrum, this sounds more like the Executive attention component to me, which they didn't include in the meta-analysis.

An interesting abstract relevant to my benefits:

Nicotine and attention in adult attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).

Nicotine, like the psychostimulants methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine, acts as an indirect dopamine agonist and improves attention and arousal. Adults and adolescents with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) smoke much more frequently than normal individuals or those with other psychiatric conditions, perhaps as a form of self-medication for ADHD symptoms. Nicotine might therefore have some value as a treatment for ADHD. The present study is an acute double-blind crossover administration of nicotine and placebo with smokers (n = 6) and nonsmokers (n = 11) diagnosed with adult ADHD. The drug was delivered via a transdermal patch at a dosage of 7 mg/day for nonsmokers and 21 mg/day for smokers. Results indicate significant clinician-rated global improvement, self-rated vigor and concentration, and improved performance on chronometric measures of attention and timing accuracy. Side effects were minimal. These acute results indicate the need for a longer clinical trial and a comparison with other stimulants in adult ADHD treatment.

PMID: 8927677 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

dfowler, it seems quite possible that it's both good and bad in the long run, through different mechanisms. My feeling is that any putative long-term benefits can be derived from other substances with fewer risks/AEs.

Edited by chrono, 29 September 2010 - 12:53 PM.

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