21 replies to this topic

[bongoman]

Hi there

I've recently read about low serotonin as a factor in ejaculatory control. I've also read about high histamine as a factor too in rapid ejaculation. I understand there is a connection between histamine and serotonin in that both are monoamine neurotransmitters.

I've read about a bunch of stuff that might be helpful here: 5-HTP, Theanine, GABA, SAM-e, Rhodiola, Magnesium, anti-histamines through to SSRI's including Dapoxetine.

I'm very reluctant to experiment with drugs such as Dapoxetine and Tramadol and instead would prefer to explore supplements.

Is there a blood test that might tell me if I have high histamine? How about on the serotonin side of things? I'm reluctant to indiscriminately just start taking stuff and am hoping to devise some sort of protocol that might allow me to narrow down effective supplements.

I am tall and thin and seem to have many of the histadelic characteristics. I eat large amounts of food but don't gain weight. I have what seems like high libido to me.

I suppose there are a couple of approaches here: a daily regimen versus 'on-demand' options (taken prior to sex). At this stage I'm looking to explore a daily protocol of supplements instead of an 'on-demand' solution.

I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on serotonin/histamine factors at play here and how best to devise an approach to choosing and taking supplements with a view to establishing a greater degree of ejaculatory control.

Edited by bongoman, 23 February 2010 - 10:13 AM.

[jazzcat]

I don't know about 5HT and orgasm; but I do know that male histadelics can have a problem with PE. It's possible that 5HT may have some effect on PE but histamine levels are also an indication of a methylation problem.

There is a blood test for histamine but it may not be available in all countries.

There is a niacin flush test that gives you some idea if you have high histamine levels. Nicotinic acid is the niacin form that causes the flush. Those with normal histamine levels should flush at 100 mg. taken on an empty stomach and away from other supplements (particularly folic acid, histidine, beta alanine and some other things). Less than 100 mg, or a 50 mg dose, means high histamine levels if that causes a flush.

High histamine types can have a high sex drive and easy orgasm, sometimes too easy, resulting in PE. High histamine means you undermethylate. Faulty methylation effects all neurotransmitters, as far as I know. When methylation is working properly then neurotransmitters are likely to be balanced.

Undermethylators are better off taking only SAMe or methionine and not supplementing any other amino acids like tryptophan, 5HTP, tyrosine or DLPA. Supplementing SAMe or methionine will take care off methylation which will help correct any neurotransmitters imbalances.

You can research this yourself using the terms UM, histadelia, high histamine levels, and MTHFr SNP. They all mean essentially the same thing. If you can match about 5 of the symptoms associated with histadelia then you may have a undermethylation problem.

[bongoman]

Thanks jazzcat - I think this under-methylation angle is the one I might explore.

You suggest stopping 5-HTP, assuming that I have high histamine levels? I've been taking it at night and having very bizarre dreams. I don't normally remember my dreams but the last couple of nights they've been very out there. I also had a strange 'hall of mirrors' episode today whilst driving - it was a déjà vu episode that doubled up on itself - I felt I'd experienced that time and place before then quickly remembered having previously had a déjà vu of the same time/place. If that makes sense. Not sure if that can be ascribed to 5-HTP. It was interesting as a mental phenomenon but a little unsettling.

[jazzcat]

If you are an UM then you shouldn't really try to increase just one neurotransmitter.

And forgetting about methylation, I think that if you continue to increase 5HT it could cause symptoms of low dopamine, depending on how long you take it and at what dose.

It seems it isn't improving your sleep quality if your dreams are "out there."

I think its possible that you are just creating a different neurotransmitter imbalance with just one amino acid for 5HT.

Definitely research the high histamine / undermethylation symptoms and see if you match any. I think correcting undermethylation is a possible solution for your PE problem.

[bongoman]

Definitely research the high histamine / undermethylation symptoms and see if you match any. I think correcting undermethylation is a possible solution for your PE problem.

This seems a very interesting angle. Am I correct that SAMe is preferable to methionine? Do I need to supplement with magnesium as well?

[jazzcat]

Definitely research the high histamine / undermethylation symptoms and see if you match any. I think correcting undermethylation is a possible solution for your PE problem.

This seems a very interesting angle. Am I correct that SAMe is preferable to methionine? Do I need to supplement with magnesium as well?

I think SAMe is better when you first start supplementing to correct undermethylation. After you feel better you can switch to methionine which is less expensive.

Yes, magnesium and calcium are both essential for histadelics.

[bongoman]

In wanting to explore this angle further I've since procured some SAMe, Magnesium Citrate and Calcium Citrate along with some Ascorbic Acid.

I'm looking at taking daily 2 x 400mg SAMe away from meals, 2 x 400mg Magnesium Citrate, 2 x 700mg Calcium and 1 x 1000mg Ascorbic Acid.

Does this sound a reasonable protocol?

Should I be taking the Mg and Ca together or apart?

I've read that I should perhaps drop back to just 1 x 400mg SAMe after a while - is there a suggested time frame that I should be looking to cut back on the SAMe?

I had been taking 5-HTP for sleep support but have now stopped this. I was also taking Rhodiola in the morning but am cycling off this for now. I might keep taking Theanine 200mg once or twice a day.

Any thoughts on this approach?

[russianBEAR]

If you have a partner who excites you truly that should not be an issue. Kegel exercises is a very simple way to control ejaculation without resorting to any medicine. 

Having tried it both ways, 5-HTP has no effect on my sexual experience, only my female partners do

Edited by russianBEAR, 08 March 2010 - 01:13 PM.

[Animal]

For ejaculatory delay I anecdotally recommend Viagra, it makes things take ages for me.

[renwosing]

I would recommend Priligy.

[bongoman]

I actually have some Priligy on hand, having purchased some online, but have been a little reluctant to try it out as it feels that taking an SSRI is overkill, even if it is a short-acting one. My further research has led me to believe that the most effective drug combo is in fact a combined dose of Priligy (dapoxetine) along with Viagra (sildenafil).

Edited by bongoman, 12 March 2010 - 01:40 AM.

[platypus]

Before going on drugs you should do lots of Kegel's and change the way you masturbate.

[MikePro]

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Edited by MikePro, 30 June 2010 - 07:23 AM.

[NIMh714]

this thread is pretty interesting. After looking into this more I think I too may be in this catagory. Is this a "common" thing? I used to be able to last pretty decently when I was a little younger, but recently It's been not that good. Its not 10 seconds, but its not where it used to be... So this may be an issue for me. I did look it up and I too match some of the sides ( but some seem too broad ).

With the SAMe, what dosage is recommended? Im around 172lbs.

OP not to jack your thread, but whats your weight/what dosage are you using? and its just SAMe solo correct?

[rephore]

Well I experimented with my bottle of 5 HTP. I took some 5htp before working out.

I'd have to say it was the worst work out of my life. I was better off without it. Natural "mood enhancer" my ass.

I also tried 5 HTP before sex. I thought this would be great, as it would elevate my mood, help me focus on my girl. But it turned out to be one of the lousiest sessions I've had in a long time.

I tried 5 HTP before class, that stuff only lasts like 20 minutes. Weak.

But I tried some 5 HTP before sleep. Hot damn. I've had one of the best sleeps in my life.

[Animal]

Well I experimented with my bottle of 5 HTP. I took some 5htp before working out.

I'd have to say it was the worst work out of my life. I was better off without it. Natural "mood enhancer" my ass.

I also tried 5 HTP before sex. I thought this would be great, as it would elevate my mood, help me focus on my girl. But it turned out to be one of the lousiest sessions I've had in a long time.

I tried 5 HTP before class, that stuff only lasts like 20 minutes. Weak.

But I tried some 5 HTP before sleep. Hot damn. I've had one of the best sleeps in my life.

It's acutely serotonergic peripherally, if you had done just a small amount of research into the substance you would know that means.

It will primarily elevate the mood of those individuals who suffer from anxiety/paranoia/insomnia/agitation or overly emotional forms of depression including neurosis. It is not an aphrodisiac, exercise enhancer or nootropic (unless of course you suffer from one of the above complaints). This is obvious to anyone with an extremely basic knowledge of neurochemistry and/or one who has done some basic relevant research.

Edited by Animal, 30 June 2010 - 05:17 PM.

[outsider]

Rhodiola has improved my sex life, I last much longer on that stuff. Also reishi mushroom inhibits histamine release and make you live longer as a side effect.

[Animal]

Rhodiola has improved my sex life, I last much longer on that stuff. Also reishi mushroom inhibits histamine release and make you live longer as a side effect.

It's also great for allergies.

[unregistered_user]

I only scanned the thread but if you aren't opposed to something prescribed for off-label use, Citalopram (brand name: Celexa) will make even the most pre-mature ejaculator struggle to reach the end of the road. It was given to me for depression and I could have sex for inordinate periods of time. However, it seemed to limit sensitivity thereby making the act less enjoyable. YMMV. Good luck!

[Animal]

I only scanned the thread but if you aren't opposed to something prescribed for off-label use, Citalopram (brand name: Celexa) will make even the most pre-mature ejaculator struggle to reach the end of the road. It was given to me for depression and I could have sex for inordinate periods of time. However, it seemed to limit sensitivity thereby making the act less enjoyable. YMMV. Good luck!

I would only consider Citalopram if you are desperate, the side effects are not pleasant and it makes sex as a whole less enjoyable since you'll probably be anorgasmic and lacking in sensitivity.

[John Barleycorn]

So, has anyone tried Sceletium in this regard? (reputedly a short-acting SSRI herb)

Edited by John Barleycorn, 27 July 2010 - 02:01 AM.

[VampIyer]

So, has anyone tried Sceletium in this regard? (reputedly a short-acting SSRI herb)

I've tried it, although not for this purpose.

It definitely does work, but it also blunts my drive just like any other SSRI would - not a big deal to me.
Barlowe's herbal elixirs has a good price, but the one I tried was from African Red Tea imports on iherb and amazon.

If I decide to continue taking it, then I'll give the Barlowe's company a try.