15 replies to this topic

[csrpj]

this looks promising....

also: check out this thread: http://www.socialanx...s-simple-83084/

this was mentioned in another thread, about safe and sustainable increase in dopamine, but i couldn't find any thread about this specific combo...

[medievil]

Hey,

Yeah this combo is definatly interesting, my name on social anxiety support is crazymed.

Memantine would be essential in this combo as it prevents downregulation of the D2 receptors, ive been thinking wheter to go with memantine+LDOPA or memantine+pramipexole.
Memantine also increases the enzyme that converts LDOPA/5HTP to Dopamine/Serotonin.

Edited by medievil, 25 February 2010 - 10:51 PM.

[csrpj]

medievil, on Feb 25 2010, 02:48 PM, said:

Hey,

Yeah this combo is definatly interesting, my name on social anxiety support is crazymed.

Memantine would be essential in this combo as it prevents downregulation of the D2 receptors, ive been thinking wheter to go with memantine+LDOPA or memantine+pramipexole.
Memantine also increases the enzyme that converts LDOPA/5HTP to Dopamine/Serotonin.

there's a lot of mention to carbidopa in the thread... is it not needed in the combo when you have memantine?

speaking of social anxiety, any regimens you're using you find helpful?

[medievil]

csrpj, on Feb 25 2010, 11:57 PM, said:

medievil, on Feb 25 2010, 02:48 PM, said:

Hey,

Yeah this combo is definatly interesting, my name on social anxiety support is crazymed.

Memantine would be essential in this combo as it prevents downregulation of the D2 receptors, ive been thinking wheter to go with memantine+LDOPA or memantine+pramipexole.
Memantine also increases the enzyme that converts LDOPA/5HTP to Dopamine/Serotonin.

there's a lot of mention to carbidopa in the thread... is it not needed in the combo when you have memantine?

speaking of social anxiety, any regimens you're using you find helpful?

Yeah cardidopa is needed to block conversion of 5HTP/ldopa to serotonin/dopamine in the body wich causes a lot of side effects, it should unchanged get in the brain.

I personally seem to need amphetamine for social anxiety (and i think ldopa may be usefull for me as it also increases dopamine.)

[Chaos Theory]

If you guys are averse to using selegiline I would give the agonists a try before L-dopa.

Cabergoline seemed to work really well for me but the small chance of heart valve fibrosis is probably enough to rule it out as a long term therapy for a younger person.  It's too soon for me to say how well the pramipexole is working but it seems promising so far.

Nicotine and catuaba are supposed to increase dopamine sensitivity.  They've allowed me to avoid memantine for the time being.

[csrpj]

Chaos Theory, on Feb 25 2010, 06:03 PM, said:

If you guys are averse to using selegiline I would give the agonists a try before L-dopa.

Cabergoline seemed to work really well for me but the small chance of heart valve fibrosis is probably enough to rule it out as a long term therapy for a younger person.  It's too soon for me to say how well the pramipexole is working but it seems promising so far.

Nicotine and catuaba are supposed to increase dopamine sensitivity.  They've allowed me to avoid memantine for the time being.

which agonists would you recommend? pramipexole? why do you say agonists before L-dopa?

also, is there a difference between using l-dopa and using Mucuna pruriens?

[medievil]

Chaos Theory, on Feb 26 2010, 03:03 AM, said:

If you guys are averse to using selegiline I would give the agonists a try before L-dopa.

Cabergoline seemed to work really well for me but the small chance of heart valve fibrosis is probably enough to rule it out as a long term therapy for a younger person.  It's too soon for me to say how well the pramipexole is working but it seems promising so far.

Nicotine and catuaba are supposed to increase dopamine sensitivity.  They've allowed me to avoid memantine for the time being.

Interesting, have you got a source regarding catuaba and dopamine sensitivity? I'm not going off memantine but it may be a good adjunct, nicotine didnt agree with me.

[Chaos Theory]

csrpj, on Feb 25 2010, 09:59 PM, said:

which agonists would you recommend? pramipexole? why do you say agonists before L-dopa?

The agonists don't cause oxidative damage when the body breaks them down as is the case with dopamine.

medievil, on Feb 26 2010, 05:24 AM, said:

Interesting, have you got a source regarding catuaba and dopamine sensitivity? I'm not going off memantine but it may be a good adjunct, nicotine didnt agree with me.

Unfortunately research into catuaba is lacking.  The increased dopamine sensitivity is the theorized MOA for catuaba increasing libido.  I can attest to its mood enhancing effects.  I use the bark cuttings from MRH, trichilia catuaga, boiled/heated in water.

What about nicotine didn't agree with you?  I use the patches and probably only end up getting around ~4mg/day.  Even at that it caused nausea at first.  Fragmented sleep also.  Both of those subsided after a week or two of consistent use, taking the patch off at night.

[FunkOdyssey]

Chaos Theory, on Feb 26 2010, 01:25 PM, said:

Unfortunately research into catuaba is lacking.  The increased dopamine sensitivity is the theorized MOA for catuaba increasing libido.  I can attest to its mood enhancing effects.  I use the bark cuttings from MRH, trichilia catuaga, boiled/heated in water.

Are you sure about that?  Can you link to any information?  I thought catuaba acted as a reuptake inhibitor.

[medievil]

Chaos Theory, on Feb 26 2010, 07:25 PM, said:

csrpj, on Feb 25 2010, 09:59 PM, said:

which agonists would you recommend? pramipexole? why do you say agonists before L-dopa?

The agonists don't cause oxidative damage when the body breaks them down as is the case with dopamine.

medievil, on Feb 26 2010, 05:24 AM, said:

Interesting, have you got a source regarding catuaba and dopamine sensitivity? I'm not going off memantine but it may be a good adjunct, nicotine didnt agree with me.

Unfortunately research into catuaba is lacking.  The increased dopamine sensitivity is the theorized MOA for catuaba increasing libido.  I can attest to its mood enhancing effects.  I use the bark cuttings from MRH, trichilia catuaga, boiled/heated in water.

What about nicotine didn't agree with you?  I use the patches and probably only end up getting around ~4mg/day.  Even at that it caused nausea at first.  Fragmented sleep also.  Both of those subsided after a week or two of consistent use, taking the patch off at night.

It made me feel horrible, after 2 days i was completely exhausted, maybe it went away after a few more days but i just felt to bad to contineu taking it (i used the patch and took it off at night).

Anyway i have my doubts about nicotine being a good anti tolerance agent, maybe its not powerfull enough.

Edited by medievil, 26 February 2010 - 07:39 PM.

[Chaos Theory]

FunkOdyssey, on Feb 26 2010, 01:40 PM, said:

Are you sure about that? Can you link to any information? I thought catuaba acted as a reuptake inhibitor.

After searching through some articles it looks like you might be right.

There are a few vendors who sell catuaba and in their descriptions they indicate that it works through dopamine sensitivity, but they make the claim with no proof.

[medievil]

Quote

Neuroprotection by pramipexole against dopamine- and levodopa-induced cytotoxicity

Linglong Zou, Joseph Jankovic, Dominic B. Rowe, Wenjie Xie, Stanley H. Appel and Weidong Le
Department of Neurology, Baylor College of Medicine, One Baylor Plaza, Houston, TX 77030, U.S.A.
Revised 4 January 1999.  Available online 20 May 1999.
Abstract
Pramipexole, a novel non-ergoline dopamine (DA) agonist, has been applied successfully for treatment of Parkinson's disease (PD). We report here that pramipexole can protect dopaminergic cell line Mes23.5 against dopamine- and levodopa-induced cytotoxicity possibly through a mechanism related to antioxidant activity. In the MES 23.5 cultures, DA and L-DOPA induce a dose- and time-dependent cytotoxicity, as determined by tetrazolium salt and trypan blue assays. Furthermore, an in situ terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase assay demonstrates that DA-induced cell death is apoptotic. Pretreatment with pramipexole in a concentration range (4–100 μM) significantly attenuates DA- or L-DOPA-induced cytotoxicity and apoptosis, an action which is not blocked by D3 antagonist U-99194 A or D2 antagonist raclopride. Pramipexole also protects MES 23.5 cells from hydrogen peroxide-induced cytotoxicity in a dose-dependent manner. In cell-free system, pramipexole can effectively inhibit the formation of melanin, an end product resulting from DA or L-DOPA oxidation. These results indicate that pramipexole exerts its neuroprotective effect possibly through a mechanism, which is independent of DA receptors but related to antioxidation or scavenging of free radicals (e.g. hydrogen peroxide). As a direct DA agonist and potentially neuroprotective agent, pramipexole remains attractive in the treatment of PD.

It appears that pramipexole counteracts the neurotoxiticy of LDOPA, i think the combo of both in low doses could be very promosing! The LDOPA would also counteract the decreased dopaminergic neurotransmission by prami at the start of treatment (thus preventing the initial anhedonia and sedation).

Highly synergetic combo.

[medievil]

Chaos Theory, on Feb 26 2010, 03:03 AM, said:

If you guys are averse to using selegiline I would give the agonists a try before L-dopa.

Cabergoline seemed to work really well for me but the small chance of heart valve fibrosis is probably enough to rule it out as a long term therapy for a younger person.  It's too soon for me to say how well the pramipexole is working but it seems promising so far.

Nicotine and catuaba are supposed to increase dopamine sensitivity.  They've allowed me to avoid memantine for the time being.

Ive been looking into nicotine's upregulation of dopamine receptors and it only seems to be selective for the D3 receptors[1][2] NMDA antagonists upregulate D2 in the striatum and that is also very important.

[medievil]

medievil, on Feb 28 2010, 06:43 PM, said:

Quote

Neuroprotection by pramipexole against dopamine- and levodopa-induced cytotoxicity

Linglong Zou, Joseph Jankovic, Dominic B. Rowe, Wenjie Xie, Stanley H. Appel and Weidong Le
Department of Neurology, Baylor College of Medicine, One Baylor Plaza, Houston, TX 77030, U.S.A.
Revised 4 January 1999.  Available online 20 May 1999.
Abstract
Pramipexole, a novel non-ergoline dopamine (DA) agonist, has been applied successfully for treatment of Parkinson's disease (PD). We report here that pramipexole can protect dopaminergic cell line Mes23.5 against dopamine- and levodopa-induced cytotoxicity possibly through a mechanism related to antioxidant activity. In the MES 23.5 cultures, DA and L-DOPA induce a dose- and time-dependent cytotoxicity, as determined by tetrazolium salt and trypan blue assays. Furthermore, an in situ terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase assay demonstrates that DA-induced cell death is apoptotic. Pretreatment with pramipexole in a concentration range (4–100 μM) significantly attenuates DA- or L-DOPA-induced cytotoxicity and apoptosis, an action which is not blocked by D3 antagonist U-99194 A or D2 antagonist raclopride. Pramipexole also protects MES 23.5 cells from hydrogen peroxide-induced cytotoxicity in a dose-dependent manner. In cell-free system, pramipexole can effectively inhibit the formation of melanin, an end product resulting from DA or L-DOPA oxidation. These results indicate that pramipexole exerts its neuroprotective effect possibly through a mechanism, which is independent of DA receptors but related to antioxidation or scavenging of free radicals (e.g. hydrogen peroxide). As a direct DA agonist and potentially neuroprotective agent, pramipexole remains attractive in the treatment of PD.

It appears that pramipexole counteracts the neurotoxiticy of LDOPA, i think the combo of both in low doses could be very promosing! The LDOPA would also counteract the decreased dopaminergic neurotransmission by prami at the start of treatment (thus preventing the initial anhedonia and sedation).

Highly synergetic combo.

NVM, i missed that this study was done in vitro (allways get too excited and post before i read ) However prami does seem to have some neuroprotective properties in a few other studies, so it should be a good add on.

Edited by medievil, 01 March 2010 - 12:19 AM.

[medievil]

Someone posted another positive experience regarding LDOPA on SAS.

Quote

when i take it sublingually it doesn't make me sleepy!
i have had a good response to levodopa.
my SA physical symptoms are corrected. head, hand... tremor are gone. excessive blinking and abnormal heart rate are corrected.
i also have better sex drive and motivation and also better social interactions.
it's recommended.

http://www.socialanx...levodopa-84210/

This combo looks damn promosing...

[brainjuice]

Chaos Theory, on 26 February 2010 - 02:03 AM, said:

If you guys are averse to using selegiline I would give the agonists a try before L-dopa.

Cabergoline seemed to work really well for me but the small chance of heart valve fibrosis is probably enough to rule it out as a long term therapy for a younger person.  It's too soon for me to say how well the pramipexole is working but it seems promising so far.

Nicotine and catuaba are supposed to increase dopamine sensitivity.  They've allowed me to avoid memantine for the time being.

Hey Chaos, sorry for waking up this old thread... but do you still take cabergoline? If so, where do you get it? I see it in Antiaging-Systems @ $89.99 for only eight .5mg pills! which kind of renders it useless as a medium term solution.