bosozok, on 08 November 2010 - 06:06 AM, said:
bosozok, on 08 November 2010 - 03:43 AM, said:
Ghostrider, on 05 November 2010 - 08:42 AM, said:
bosozok, on 03 November 2010 - 10:41 AM, said:
Ghostrider, on 01 November 2010 - 08:40 AM, said:
rwac, on 30 October 2010 - 05:33 AM, said:
bosozok, on 30 October 2010 - 03:21 AM, said:
It must then be asked how then will it ever be possible for the Imminst Mission to be fulfilled?
There's plenty of money to be made in life extension. You just have to bypass (supplements) or work around (test the drugs for some other illness) the FDA.
If you had a drug that significantly extended human life, you could sell it anywhere and people would come from all over for it.
Its a pleasant thought. But back to reality.
Look at what the Big Pharma through the FDA have been doing to supplement industry, and to ensuring look established supplements and the knowledge of how to use them are kept from the public, just in the couple of years or so. Just to take one example look at Okinawa to see the benefit that a diet high in iodine has against the kind of breast and prostrate cancer rates we have in many parts of the West. Compare the iodine intake of the average Okinawan with the recommended FDA daily allowance/ WHO recommendation.
Looking locally, in Austalia the recommendation for daily iodine consumption is 150 micrograms for men, 120 micrograms for women. In Japan the figure I find for average daily iodine in diet is 12 mg/day. In the US average daily allowance is 240 micrograms. Japanese consume about 50 times more iodine than Americans. Compare the average expected lifespan of the people in those two countries. Iodine in the diet has been cited in several studies as a contributing factor in Japanese low incidence of those cancers, and longer lifespan.
Your grandma used to be able to walk down to the corner store and buy iodine for the medicine cabinet, not for drinking perhaps but as a general household medicine. Ever seen it on the shelves in your town in your lifetime?
That's the FDA for you. No, actually, that's corporations running your government for you.
Seems to me the case for corporations making more money from mortality will find a lot more convincing supporting evidence than will the case for corporations making money from prolonging life.
Of course when they do find the answer to immortality in a pill, it will come with a healthy price tag. I just can't see it being one you or I could afford. Human health / long life for everyone and the profit motive just don't seem to be in harmony do they?
I'm not denying that corporations are not greedy (greed and corruption tend to increase with the size of an organization). But if you are going to suggest that big corporations have forced drug stores to stop selling iodine (rather than people simply choosing not to buy it or a cheaper alternative becoming available), you're going to need to supply some proof. According to Wikipedia, it was banned due to it's connection in making methamphetamine:
Clandestine synthetic chemical use
In the United States, the Drug Enforcement Agency
(DEA) regards iodine and compounds containing iodine (ionic iodides, iodoform, ethyl iodide, and so on) as reagents useful for the clandestine manufacture of methamphetamine
So provide some proof that shows corporations somehow convinced the government to ban iodine in the name of drug enforcement...
Longevity treatments probably will be expensive when they come out...someone has to pay for all the research costs. However, Aubrey has explained more than once that when treatments are robust (I'm fine with letting the rich test them for me to ensure they are safe), all governments that wish to be economically competitive will have an incentive to provide them. Just as all governments have an incentive to provide free public education. If you can have people work for 500 years vs. 40, think of the economic consequences. No country would be able to compete economically with one whose citizens are living 10x longer. If you really believe: "
Of course when they do find the answer to immortality in a pill, it will come with a healthy price tag. I just can't see it being one you or I could afford." then why waste your time here? Trying to spread pessimism about indefinite lifespan?
Go into a drugstore and you will find the base chemicals for the production of a whole lot of illicit drugs. Most of these have restrictions place on them. But they are available to buy without prescription often enough. However, you will not be able to buy iodine. Above I am principally talking about consuming iodine, and that is either naturally in the diet or through supplementation, say in the form of Lugols solution. You can buy iodine supplements from reputable outfits like NOW food. But the point I am making is not only is iodine no longer readily available to the general public where it used to be in the medicine cabinet of every home, but it is the subject of a propaganda campaign aiming to scare people away from using it either to topically self medicate or as a supplement.
It is perhaps ironical you should mention methamphetamine manufacture as the reason for iodine no longer being readily available. That drug was discovered in Japan, the very country where its hard to find any Japanese that suffers from iodine deficiency. Where there is no propaganda campaign against iodine. Where doctors understand how iodine is necessary in far larger quantities than the FDA stipulates. And like I said where people live on average way longer than Americans, or Australians, and suffer far far lower risk of prostrate or breast cancer.
The whole idea we need to worry about too many mouths to feed is a poisonous lie by the way. There is more than enough money in this world to hugely benefit everybody. More than enough technology to instantly benefit the whole of mankind, but it wouldn't be profitable would it?
Its a side thought to the point you raise but worth a mention, Haiti has been left to die in disease and devastation. The best the West could do following the earthquake was to send in the military to protect some valuable assets. Then once order was regained they left. Barely a cent of the money promised by the West has been delivered to Haiti. Less than 20% of the rubble has been cleared away. And right now hundreds of those living in the tent city are dying of cholera, a disease the world had virtually wiped out a long long time ago.
Why waste my time here you ask? Because I think every human being has the right to a 500 year healthy lifespan, and really people like you and me are nothing special.
Misread the post. Maybe the flag is for that reason?
But to reply to what you have actually posted.
I think the need to profit has already turned to greed on a large scale and it seems to have led us to a major financial precipice. And still I don't see governments anywhere throwing up their hands and saying 'To hell with it, lets make education AND healthcare free'. If those that govern us really thought workers living for 500 years was a good idea we would have free health care for goodness sake. Basically yes, I do believe that corporations run governments. Not the people. So based on what is actually taking place I just can't agree with you.
People everywhere deserve the opportunity to lead long and healthy lives, not simply a wealthy few. And it cannot be left to the free market. There is quite obviously nothing free about it. So yes, agreed, governments ought to realize the economic benefits reaped from long living and therefore informed and educated populations, everywhere. And that possibly is my last word on this topic here.
The first startup to commercialize life extension therapies becomes insanely obscenely rich. Period.
Hell, there arent even effective therapies yet, and already theres an entire industry based around it.
You just dont get it, do you? Capitalism will eat itself. Theres no loyalty to the system; no conspiracy. Its just business as usual. All that matters is the bottom line, the profit margin.
If life extension therapies (or age reversal ones) become feasible, someone somewhere will try to sell it (keep in mind the world is much bigger than the US). Besides, in all seriousness, its research thats risky, expensive, and time consuming. Implementation, not so much.
Also, i dont think this would be the kind of thing a government would want to drive underground or overseas with regulations.
Can you imagine a nation of perpetually young, healthy, highly educated people competing against a nation of senior citizens?
Edited by Lassus, 16 November 2010 - 02:12 AM.