60 replies to this topic

[full_circle]

In korea and japan, 45mg a day (not mcg, mg) of K2 MK-4 is administered for osteoporosis and atherosclerosis (off label) patients.
In fact officially approved upper limit is 90mg MK-4 a day (My mother takes 60mg MK-4 a day).

http://www.google.co...w...q=&gs_rfai=

Now to put an end to this MK-4 vs. MK-7 thing, i'll propose a challenge to you all.
Take 45mg of K2 MK-7 (or K1 if you want) a day and see how it feels. (3x15mg will do)
Chances are, you will get hospitalised with ischemic stroke on the FIRST day.

Our body can tolerate megadose (upto 90mg) of K2 MK-4 because it is readily absorbed to proper places it is needed before it causes serious coagulation problem i.e. it is extremely bio-avaiable, however K2 MK-7 (or K1) remains in blood plasma much longer because of its poor bio-availability and significantly raise ischemic stroke risks.
So if you are really convinced that K2 MK-7 (or K1) is superior or at least equal in efficacy, go ahead try 45mg of K2 MK-7 (or K1).

Otherwise, MK-4 wins hands down (Higher dose makes quicker bone density build-up possible)

Edited by full_circle, 27 March 2010 - 05:24 PM.

[1kgcoffee]

In korea and japan, 45mg a day (not mcg, mg) of K2 MK-4 is administered for osteoporosis and atherosclerosis (off label) patients.
In fact officially approved upper limit is 90mg MK-4 a day (My mother takes 60mg MK-4 a day)

http://www.google.co...n...sis&spell=1

Now to put an end to this MK-4 vs. MK-7 issue, i'll propose a challenge to you all.
Take 45mg of K2 MK-7 (or K1 if you want) a day and see how it feels. (3x15mg will do)
Chances are, you will get hospitalised with ischemic stroke on the FIRST day.

Our body can tolerate megadose (upto 90mg) of K2 MK-4 because it is readily absorbed where it is needed before it cause serious coagulation problem i.e. it is extremely bio-avaiable, however K2 MK-7 (or K1) remains much longer in blood plasma because of its poor bio-availability and significantly raise ischemic stroke risks.
So if you are really convinced that K2 MK-7 (or K1) is superior or at least equal in efficacy, go ahead try 45mg of K2 MK-7 (or K1).

Otherwise, MK-4 wins hands down.

Umm.. 90mg, not 90mcg which I have been taking for a long ass time and experienced no coagulation problems? It might be safer to megadose on mk4, but that doesn't make it superior.

[full_circle]

Of course it makes it superior. Higher dose makes quicker bone density build-up possible.

Edited by full_circle, 27 March 2010 - 05:24 PM.

[full_circle]

I take two drops of Thorne Research K2 MK-4 a day.

Edited by full_circle, 27 March 2010 - 06:27 PM.

[nameless]

Hmm.... what a bizarre line of reasoning.

Full Circle: repeating the same post, over and over in various K2 threads, doesn't make your argument true. I can't decide if you are a troll or just have a really odd way of putting forth your argument...

If you have scientific studies to back up your claims, please post them here. The Rotterdam and Japanese Natto studies do lend credence to MK-7 providing a benefit, (and MK-4 too), but at mcg doses.

[full_circle]

Hmm.... what a bizarre line of reasoning.

Full Circle: repeating the same post, over and over in various K2 threads, doesn't make your argument true. I can't decide if you are a troll or just have a really odd way of putting forth your argument...

If you have scientific studies to back up your claims, please post them here. The Rotterdam and Japanese Natto studies do lend credence to MK-7 providing a benefit, (and MK-4 too), but at mcg doses.

That is exactly the point. you cannot take milligram scale dose of MK-7. Probably about 2mg is the absolute max upper limit for MK-7. More than 2mg, you will get stroke. Now think about it. What does this mean? --> With MK-4, you can buildup bone density about 20 times faster, because with MK-4, you can intake 20 times of dose at a time (45mg)

Sure MK-7 provides benefit, but 20 times slower.

Edited by full_circle, 27 March 2010 - 06:30 PM.

[nameless]

That is exactly the point. you cannot take milligram scale dose of MK-7. Probably about 2mg is the max upper limit for MK-7. More than 2mg, you will get stroke. Now think about it. What does this mean? --> With MK-4, you can buildup bone density about 20 times faster, because with MK-4, you can intake 20 times of dose at a time.

Or it means mcg doses of MK-7 is equivalent to mg doses of MK-4.

I will grant you that for bone density issues, you may be correct. MK-4 could be superior. But we need some head to head studies to determine that.

And not everyone here takes K2 for bone density problems. Look at Rotterdam and the Natto studies -- if one wanted to dose conservatively and safely, one would take K2 in doses that people consume via diet naturally. And they don't megadose MK-4 via diet.

[niner]

Hmm.... what a bizarre line of reasoning.

Full Circle: repeating the same post, over and over in various K2 threads, doesn't make your argument true. I can't decide if you are a troll or just have a really odd way of putting forth your argument...

If you have scientific studies to back up your claims, please post them here. The Rotterdam and Japanese Natto studies do lend credence to MK-7 providing a benefit, (and MK-4 too), but at mcg doses.

That is exactly the point. you cannot take milligram scale dose of MK-7. Probably about 2mg is the absolute max upper limit for MK-7. More than 2mg, you will get stroke. Now think about it. What does this mean? --> With MK-4, you can buildup bone density about 20 times faster, because with MK-4, you can intake 20 times of dose at a time (45mg)

Sure MK-7 provides benefit, but 20 times slower.

full_circle, you are wrong. The two compounds have different potency. MK-4 is "weaker" than MK-7, so it takes more of it. Please stop posting dangerous nonsense, particularly things like telling people to overdose on a compound. If you can't find evidence in the literature for your wild claims, that is a good indication that they aren't right. You are doing the same thing in multiple threads, and frankly it's wasting our time.

[full_circle]

That is exactly the point. you cannot take milligram scale dose of MK-7. Probably about 2mg is the max upper limit for MK-7. More than 2mg, you will get stroke. Now think about it. What does this mean? --> With MK-4, you can buildup bone density about 20 times faster, because with MK-4, you can intake 20 times of dose at a time.

Or it means mcg doses of MK-7 is equivalent to mg doses of MK-4.

I will grant you that for bone density issues, you may be correct. MK-4 could be superior. But we need some head to head studies to determine that.

And not everyone here takes K2 for bone density problems. Look at Rotterdam and the Natto studies -- if one wanted to dose conservatively and safely, one would take K2 in doses that people consume via diet naturally. And they don't megadose MK-4 via diet.

MK-4 and MK-7 have been studied for decades in Korea and Japan and pound per pound(or mg per mg), their efficacy is about the same. again, the issue is, how much you can take at a time. and in this regard, MK_4 is 20+ times better.

After all, most k1 and k2 MK-7 converts to K2 MK-4 anyways, there isn't much a merit in comparing efficacy between MK-7 and MK-4.

And of course MK-4 is also administered for the purpose of decalcifying the artery, but unlike your claim, "everyday diet amount" of MK-4 is found not to be effective. Decalcification also requires high dose administration.

Edited by full_circle, 27 March 2010 - 07:21 PM.

[OneScrewLoose]

Circle, don't you have anything better to do than be arrogant on the internet? Is your life that boring?

[nameless]

MK-4 and MK-7 have been studied for decades in Korea and Japan and pound per pound(or mg per mg), their efficacy is about the same. again, the issue is, how much you can take at a time. and in this regard, MK_4 is 20+ times better.

And of course MK-4 is also administered for the purpose of decalcifying the artery, but unlike your claim, "everyday diet amount" of MK-4 is found not to be effective. Decalcification also requires high dose administration.

Can you post links to these studies backing up your claims?

And in Rotterdam, around 45mcg of K2 showed a benefit regarding heart disease risk reduction (if I recall correctly).

[kismet]

Serious troll is serious. *unhappy smiley*

(unless you really do provide the "useless" studies )

Edited by kismet, 27 March 2010 - 07:00 PM.

[full_circle]

yes, rwac. MK-4 is a stronger antioxidant than coQ10 and exerts powerful anti-inflammatory effect and also recently discovered was that it has profound role in immune system.

Edited by full_circle, 27 March 2010 - 07:02 PM.

[full_circle]

After all, most k1 and k2 MK-7 converts to K2 MK-4 anyways, there isn't much a merit in comparing efficacy between MK-7 and MK-4.

[maxwatt]

After all, most k1 and k2 MK-7 converts to K2 MK-4 anyways, there isn't much a merit in comparing efficacy between MK-7 and MK-4.

Please, full-circle, stop posting assertions without references to back them up. Most studies even in foreign language are cataloged at pub-med, searchable b keywords. Please go to this website http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ and find abstracts to the studies supporting your claims. They will be here.

I worry about you; seem to be in Korea where your ISP addres resolves, with a 12 hour time difference, and you are staying up all night to make these posts in an argumentative fashion all night, instead of sleeping? Are you alright?

I wonder if the Korean medical system is similar to the Japanese, where doctors sell pills to their patients, mostly sugar-coated placebos but sometimes supplements that are not known to be harmful.

[full_circle]

Hmm.... what a bizarre line of reasoning.

Full Circle: repeating the same post, over and over in various K2 threads, doesn't make your argument true. I can't decide if you are a troll or just have a really odd way of putting forth your argument...

If you have scientific studies to back up your claims, please post them here. The Rotterdam and Japanese Natto studies do lend credence to MK-7 providing a benefit, (and MK-4 too), but at mcg doses.

That is exactly the point. you cannot take milligram scale dose of MK-7. Probably about 2mg is the absolute max upper limit for MK-7. More than 2mg, you will get stroke. Now think about it. What does this mean? --> With MK-4, you can buildup bone density about 20 times faster, because with MK-4, you can intake 20 times of dose at a time (45mg)

Sure MK-7 provides benefit, but 20 times slower.

full_circle, you are wrong. The two compounds have different potency. MK-4 is "weaker" than MK-7, so it takes more of it. Please stop posting dangerous nonsense, particularly things like telling people to overdose on a compound. If you can't find evidence in the literature for your wild claims, that is a good indication that they aren't right. You are doing the same thing in multiple threads, and frankly it's wasting our time.

niner, you know MK-7 converts to MK-4 in body (Mk-7 is just not that bio-available) and then what is the point of comparing the two? And how nice is it to say "full_circle, you are wrong." when my own mother is on MK-4 therapy? what made you so vengeful against me..?

Edited by full_circle, 27 March 2010 - 07:33 PM.

[full_circle]

After all, most k1 and k2 MK-7 converts to K2 MK-4 anyways, there isn't much a merit in comparing efficacy between MK-7 and MK-4.

Please, full-circle, stop posting assertions without references to back them up. Most studies even in foreign language are cataloged at pub-med, searchable b keywords. Please go to this website http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ and find abstracts to the studies supporting your claims. They will be here.

I worry about you; seem to be in Korea where your ISP addres resolves, with a 12 hour time difference, and you are staying up all night to make these posts in an argumentative fashion all night, instead of sleeping? Are you alright?

I wonder if the Korean medical system is similar to the Japanese, where doctors sell pills to their patients, mostly sugar-coated placebos but sometimes supplements that are not known to be harmful.

maxwatt, no most korean language studies are not cataloged at pubmed. there is a reason for this but i don't want to get into that now. btw what do you want to know? MK-7 converts to MK-4 in body anyways. how you gonna compare their efficacy? or are they comparable at all in the 1st place? MK-7 is simply not bio-available. you disect organs, hardly find any MK-7s. and thanks for the concern, but i am a big fan of english premier league and i just have to watch them all night.

Edited by full_circle, 27 March 2010 - 08:01 PM.

[medievil]

maxwatt, so what do you want to know?

He wants references backing up your claims just like everyone else here.

[full_circle]

MK-4 and MK-7 have been studied for decades in Korea and Japan and pound per pound(or mg per mg), their efficacy is about the same. again, the issue is, how much you can take at a time. and in this regard, MK_4 is 20+ times better.

And of course MK-4 is also administered for the purpose of decalcifying the artery, but unlike your claim, "everyday diet amount" of MK-4 is found not to be effective. Decalcification also requires high dose administration.

Can you post links to these studies backing up your claims?

And in Rotterdam, around 45mcg of K2 showed a benefit regarding heart disease risk reduction (if I recall correctly).

somehow my reply has been deleted, i'll reply again. I read it sometime ago in Korean language, I'll look for it but it will be korean and will be of no use to you. and considering short history of western research on MK-4/MK-7, I am not sure if such study exists in the west.

And I am sure mcg scale K2 will be beneficial in the long run, but for quick result(healing), you need higher dose.

[full_circle]

maxwatt, so what do you want to know?

He wants references backing up your claims just like everyone else here.

what claim?

[maxwatt]

maxwatt, so what do you want to know?

He wants references backing up your claims just like everyone else here.

Thank you for clarifying that.

Reputable studies by Korean scientists are routinely published in English Language journals throughout the world. English has become the de facto language of scientific research, except in botany where it is still LAtin.

A few papers by Korean Scientists:

Prevalence of painful bladder syndrome/interstitial cystitis-like symptoms in women: a population-based study in Korea.
Choe JH, Son H, Song YS, Kim JC, Lee JZ, Lee KS.
World J Urol. 2010 Mar 26. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20340026 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
2.
Childhood brugada syndrome in two korean families.
Lee YS, Baek JS, Kim SY, Seo SW, Kwon BS, Kim GB, Bae EJ, Park SS, Noh CI.
Korean Circ J. 2010 Mar;40(3):143-7. Epub 2010 Mar 24.
PMID: 20339501 [PubMed - in process]
Related articles
3.
The Relationship of Weight-Related Attitudes With Suicidal Behaviors in Korean Adolescents.
Kim JS, Lee K.
Obesity (Silver Spring). 2010 Mar 25. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20339366 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
4.
Changes in Occupational Safety and Health Indices After the Korean Economic Crisis: Analysis of a National Sample, 1991-2007.
Min KB, Min JY, Park JB, Park SG, Lee KJ.
Am J Public Health. 2010 Mar 25. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20339078 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
5.
Pain-Related Anxiety as a Mediator of the Effects of Mindfulness on Physical and Psychosocial Functioning in Chronic Pain Patients in Korea.
Cho S, Heiby EM, McCracken LM, Lee SM, Moon DE.
J Pain. 2010 Mar 23. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20338821 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
6.
G protein beta3 subunit, interleukin-10, and tumor necrosis factor-alpha gene polymorphisms in Koreans with irritable bowel syndrome.
Lee HJ, Lee SY, Choi JE, Kim JH, Sung IK, Park HS, Jin CJ.
Neurogastroenterol Motil. 2010 Mar 25. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20337945 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
7.
Degradation of malic acid in wine by immobilized Issatchenkia orientalis cells with oriental oak charcoal and alginate.
Hong SK, Lee HJ, Park HJ, Hong YA, Rhee IK, Lee WH, Choi SW, Lee OS, Park HD.
Lett Appl Microbiol. 2010 Mar 8. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20337931 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
8.
Oestrogen and progesterone receptor expression in melasma: an immunohistochemical analysis.
Jang YH, Lee JY, Kang HY, Lee ES, Kim YC.
J Eur Acad Dermatol Venereol. 2010 Mar 23. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20337826 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
9.
Hidden breast cancer disparities in Asian women: disaggregating incidence rates by ethnicity and migrant status.
Gomez SL, Quach T, Horn-Ross PL, Pham JT, Cockburn M, Chang ET, Keegan TH, Glaser SL, Clarke CA.
Am J Public Health. 2010 Apr 1;100 Suppl 1:S125-31. Epub 2010 Feb 10.
PMID: 20147696 [PubMed - in process]
Related articles
10.
Genetic variation of prevalent G1P[8] human rotaviruses in South Korea.
Le VP, Chung YC, Kim K, Chung SI, Lim I, Kim W.
J Med Virol. 2010 Mar 24;82(5):886-896. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20336735 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
11.
Evidence of poorer life-course mental health outcomes among veterans of the Korean War cohort.
Brooks MS, Fulton L.
Aging Ment Health. 2010 Mar;14(2):177-83.
PMID: 20336549 [PubMed - in process]
Related articles
12.
Lung function, coronary artery calcification, and metabolic syndrome in 4905 Korean males.
Park HY, Lim SY, Hwang JH, Choi JH, Koh WJ, Sung J, Suh GY, Chung MP, Kim H, Choe YH, Woo S, Jung Kwon O.
Respir Med. 2010 Mar 22. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20335013 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
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Chang HK, Yu E, Kim J, Bae YK, Jang KT, Jung ES, Yoon GS, Kim JM, Oh YH, Bae HI, Kim GI, Jung SJ, Gu MJ, Kim JY, Jang KY, Jun SY, Eom DW, Kwon KW, Kang GH, Park JB, Hong S, Lee JS, Park JY, Hong SM; the Korean Small Intestinal Cancer Study Group.
Hum Pathol. 2010 Mar 22. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20334897 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
14.
A case of vesical and scrotal sparganosis presenting as a scrotal mass.
Yun SJ, Park MS, Jeon HK, Kim YJ, Kim WJ, Lee SC.
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PMID: 20333286 [PubMed - in process]
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15.
Genetic polymorphisms of the bovine Fatty acid binding protein 4 gene are significantly associated with marbling and carcass weight in Hanwoo (Korean Cattle).
Lee SH, van der Werf JH, Lee SH, Park EW, Oh SJ, Gibson JP, Thompson JM.
Anim Genet. 2010 Mar 15. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20331595 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
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Lee H, Jongman A.
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19.
Korean listeners' sensitivity to language-specific phonetic details of children and adults' vowel production in five different languages.
Chung H, Edwards J, Weismer G, Kong E, Munson B, Beckman ME.
J Acoust Soc Am. 2010 Mar;127(3):2018.
PMID: 20331150 [PubMed - in process]
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20.
Position and height asymmetries in hiatus resolution: Are they phonetically driven phenomena?
Kang H.
J Acoust Soc Am. 2010 Mar;127(3):2018.
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And this little gem:

J Bone Miner Metab. 2008;26(1):79-85. Epub 2008 Jan 10.
Low plasma phylloquinone concentration is associated with high incidence of vertebral fracture in Japanese women.
Tsugawa N, Shiraki M, Suhara Y, Kamao M, Ozaki R, Tanaka K, Okano T.

Department of Hygienic Sciences, Kobe Pharmaceutical University, 4-19-1 Motoyamakita-machi, Higashinada-ku, Kobe 658-8558, Japan.
It has been reported that vitamin K supplementation effectively prevents fractures and sustains bone mineral density in osteoporosis. However, there are only limited reported data concerning the association between vitamin K nutritional status and bone mineral density (BMD) or fractures in Japan. The objectives were to evaluate the association between plasma phylloquinone (K1) or menaquinone (MK-4 and MK-7) concentration and BMD or fracture in Japanese women prospectively. A total of 379 healthy women aged 30-88 years (mean age, 63.0 years) were consecutively enrolled. Plasma K1, MK-4, MK-7, and serum undercarboxylated osteocalcin (ucOC) concentrations, BMD, and incidence of vertebral fractures were evaluated. In stepwise multiple linear regression analyses, L2-4 BMD and a bone turnover marker, log K1, concentrations were independently correlated with vertebral fracture incidence. When subjects were divided into low and high K1 groups by plasma K1 concentration, the incidence of vertebral fracture in the low K1 group (14.4%) was significantly higher than that in the high K1 group (4.2%), and its age-adjusted RR was 3.58 (95% CI, 3.26-3.93). L2-4 BMD was not different between the two groups. These results suggest that subjects with vitamin K1 insufficiency in bone have increased susceptibility for vertebral fracture independently from BMD.

PMID: 18095068

Still, I find nothing supporting the the 45mg/day dose. I have found some Korean doctors seem to use such a therapy, but only for women. For men it is said to increase adverse coronary events and ischemic stroke. Even so, if there were any studies supporting the efficacy of this practice, I would expect them to be published. I hope the therapy works for your Grandmother without adverse effects, but even if it does it is not for everyone.

[full_circle]

from my very first post in imminst, i faced this strange "anti-creativity" atmosphere, which i find, self-contradictory. close-minded immortality pursuers.. (remember niner..?) i thought i had a lot to contribute and i still do, i have learned a lot here and had my horizon widended but now came a time that frustration i get by being here outweighs the joy.
i'd like to stay away for a while. i might come back this summer, by the time i will be working in SF.

i wish my best for all.

*
moderators, plz do not delete my posts.

[medievil]

from my very first post in imminst, i faced this strange "anti-creativity" atmosphere, which i find, self-contradictory. close-minded immortality pursuers.. (remember niner..?) i thought i had a lot to contribute and i still do, i have learned a lot here and had my horizon widended but now came a time that frustration i get by being here outweighs the joy.
i'd like to stay away for a while. i might come back this summer, by the time i will be working in SF.

i wish my best for all.

*
moderators, plz do not delete my posts.

lol

[full_circle]

maxwatt, so what do you want to know?

He wants references backing up your claims just like everyone else here.

Thank you for clarifying that.

Reputable studies by Korean scientists are routinely published in English Language journals throughout the world. English has become the de facto language of scientific research, except in botany where it is still LAtin.

A few papers by Korean Scientists:

Prevalence of painful bladder syndrome/interstitial cystitis-like symptoms in women: a population-based study in Korea.
Choe JH, Son H, Song YS, Kim JC, Lee JZ, Lee KS.
World J Urol. 2010 Mar 26. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20340026 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
2.
Childhood brugada syndrome in two korean families.
Lee YS, Baek JS, Kim SY, Seo SW, Kwon BS, Kim GB, Bae EJ, Park SS, Noh CI.
Korean Circ J. 2010 Mar;40(3):143-7. Epub 2010 Mar 24.
PMID: 20339501 [PubMed - in process]
Related articles
3.
The Relationship of Weight-Related Attitudes With Suicidal Behaviors in Korean Adolescents.
Kim JS, Lee K.
Obesity (Silver Spring). 2010 Mar 25. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20339366 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
4.
Changes in Occupational Safety and Health Indices After the Korean Economic Crisis: Analysis of a National Sample, 1991-2007.
Min KB, Min JY, Park JB, Park SG, Lee KJ.
Am J Public Health. 2010 Mar 25. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20339078 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
5.
Pain-Related Anxiety as a Mediator of the Effects of Mindfulness on Physical and Psychosocial Functioning in Chronic Pain Patients in Korea.
Cho S, Heiby EM, McCracken LM, Lee SM, Moon DE.
J Pain. 2010 Mar 23. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20338821 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
6.
G protein beta3 subunit, interleukin-10, and tumor necrosis factor-alpha gene polymorphisms in Koreans with irritable bowel syndrome.
Lee HJ, Lee SY, Choi JE, Kim JH, Sung IK, Park HS, Jin CJ.
Neurogastroenterol Motil. 2010 Mar 25. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20337945 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
7.
Degradation of malic acid in wine by immobilized Issatchenkia orientalis cells with oriental oak charcoal and alginate.
Hong SK, Lee HJ, Park HJ, Hong YA, Rhee IK, Lee WH, Choi SW, Lee OS, Park HD.
Lett Appl Microbiol. 2010 Mar 8. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20337931 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
8.
Oestrogen and progesterone receptor expression in melasma: an immunohistochemical analysis.
Jang YH, Lee JY, Kang HY, Lee ES, Kim YC.
J Eur Acad Dermatol Venereol. 2010 Mar 23. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20337826 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
9.
Hidden breast cancer disparities in Asian women: disaggregating incidence rates by ethnicity and migrant status.
Gomez SL, Quach T, Horn-Ross PL, Pham JT, Cockburn M, Chang ET, Keegan TH, Glaser SL, Clarke CA.
Am J Public Health. 2010 Apr 1;100 Suppl 1:S125-31. Epub 2010 Feb 10.
PMID: 20147696 [PubMed - in process]
Related articles
10.
Genetic variation of prevalent G1P[8] human rotaviruses in South Korea.
Le VP, Chung YC, Kim K, Chung SI, Lim I, Kim W.
J Med Virol. 2010 Mar 24;82(5):886-896. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20336735 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
11.
Evidence of poorer life-course mental health outcomes among veterans of the Korean War cohort.
Brooks MS, Fulton L.
Aging Ment Health. 2010 Mar;14(2):177-83.
PMID: 20336549 [PubMed - in process]
Related articles
12.
Lung function, coronary artery calcification, and metabolic syndrome in 4905 Korean males.
Park HY, Lim SY, Hwang JH, Choi JH, Koh WJ, Sung J, Suh GY, Chung MP, Kim H, Choe YH, Woo S, Jung Kwon O.
Respir Med. 2010 Mar 22. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20335013 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
13.
Adenocarcinoma of the small intestine: a multi-institutional study of 197 surgically resected cases.
Chang HK, Yu E, Kim J, Bae YK, Jang KT, Jung ES, Yoon GS, Kim JM, Oh YH, Bae HI, Kim GI, Jung SJ, Gu MJ, Kim JY, Jang KY, Jun SY, Eom DW, Kwon KW, Kang GH, Park JB, Hong S, Lee JS, Park JY, Hong SM; the Korean Small Intestinal Cancer Study Group.
Hum Pathol. 2010 Mar 22. [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 20334897 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Related articles
14.
A case of vesical and scrotal sparganosis presenting as a scrotal mass.
Yun SJ, Park MS, Jeon HK, Kim YJ, Kim WJ, Lee SC.
Korean J Parasitol. 2010 Mar;48(1):57-9. Epub 2010 Mar 18.
PMID: 20333286 [PubMed - in process]
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15.
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And this little gem:

J Bone Miner Metab. 2008;26(1):79-85. Epub 2008 Jan 10.
Low plasma phylloquinone concentration is associated with high incidence of vertebral fracture in Japanese women.
Tsugawa N, Shiraki M, Suhara Y, Kamao M, Ozaki R, Tanaka K, Okano T.

Department of Hygienic Sciences, Kobe Pharmaceutical University, 4-19-1 Motoyamakita-machi, Higashinada-ku, Kobe 658-8558, Japan.
It has been reported that vitamin K supplementation effectively prevents fractures and sustains bone mineral density in osteoporosis. However, there are only limited reported data concerning the association between vitamin K nutritional status and bone mineral density (BMD) or fractures in Japan. The objectives were to evaluate the association between plasma phylloquinone (K1) or menaquinone (MK-4 and MK-7) concentration and BMD or fracture in Japanese women prospectively. A total of 379 healthy women aged 30-88 years (mean age, 63.0 years) were consecutively enrolled. Plasma K1, MK-4, MK-7, and serum undercarboxylated osteocalcin (ucOC) concentrations, BMD, and incidence of vertebral fractures were evaluated. In stepwise multiple linear regression analyses, L2-4 BMD and a bone turnover marker, log K1, concentrations were independently correlated with vertebral fracture incidence. When subjects were divided into low and high K1 groups by plasma K1 concentration, the incidence of vertebral fracture in the low K1 group (14.4%) was significantly higher than that in the high K1 group (4.2%), and its age-adjusted RR was 3.58 (95% CI, 3.26-3.93). L2-4 BMD was not different between the two groups. These results suggest that subjects with vitamin K1 insufficiency in bone have increased susceptibility for vertebral fracture independently from BMD.

PMID: 18095068

Still, I find nothing supporting the the 45mg/day dose. I have found some Korean doctors seem to use such a therapy, but only for women. For men it is said to increase adverse coronary events and ischemic stroke. Even so, if there were any studies supporting the efficacy of this practice, I would expect them to be published. I hope the therapy works for your Grandmother without adverse effects, but even if it does it is not for everyone.

you are overly negative to be a moderator in a site where creativity is a must. and as i have said, there is patent law conflict between far eastern countries and the US and because of this, you will hardly find "gems" in pubmed. but then again why am i explaining all this? i didn't come here to be interrogated, i came here to learn, teach and communicate OPENLY, which strangely is a very difficult thing to do here... you don't believe 45mg thing, then don't believe it. but you also need to understand how shocking it is to me that at a time that the discovery of activator X, namely MK-4, is creating all kinds of buzz, you are still not aware of 45mg MK-4 therapy... you could have just looked into the net... and what is this low attitude so prevalent here? led by some of you very moderators??? if you give 10 minuts of thought about me, you will realise all my fault was,, i was abit more critical abit more creative, a bit more thoughtful, a bit more knowledgable, a bit more eccentric, which in fact you should have encouraged! but you guys are doing exactly the opposite... sad... well but then again i wish you my best anyways, as i have pointed out in my essay, immortality and emotional precipitation do not go together so have a great time till i get back!

good bye.


*
(you got it right, stroke risk is higher for men during MK-4 therapy)

Edited by full_circle, 27 March 2010 - 09:02 PM.

[full_circle]

from my very first post in imminst, i faced this strange "anti-creativity" atmosphere, which i find, self-contradictory. close-minded immortality pursuers.. (remember niner..?) i thought i had a lot to contribute and i still do, i have learned a lot here and had my horizon widended but now came a time that frustration i get by being here outweighs the joy.
i'd like to stay away for a while. i might come back this summer, by the time i will be working in SF.

i wish my best for all.

*
moderators, plz do not delete my posts.

lol

see?

[OneScrewLoose]

Do you masturbate to yourself in the mirror everyday? Are you for real? Alright in the head? I have never seen such a disgusting display of arrogance on these forms. I thought luv2increase was bad, but at least he does a good job of providing studies to back up his claims.

Providing studies to back up what you say is the de facto rule around here. If you can't or don't want to do that, then leave.

[1kgcoffee]

Hmm, I've found imminst to be highly creative and open-minded.

It's possible that mk-4 will turn out to be 'better', but you must admit that declaring a 'final verdict' is jumping the gun, no? Maybe you can show us the Korean research? Have these researchers concluded that mk-4 is better or is that just your interpretation?

[caston]

I'm supplementing with K2-mk4 as a of a few days ago.

http://www.vitamink2.org/ looks at both and they seem to say the MK7 is much more effective but I haven't found (or been looking for) studies on potential MK7 ill effects such as stroke.

Having said this it might not be just the MK7 though. Do some research on the things which put people at higher risk factors for stroke.

You are at higher risk of stroke if you have periodontal disease or Bacteremia (also known as Bacteraemia or Bacteræmia) which is the presence of bacteria in the blood.

Edited by caston, 28 March 2010 - 01:32 AM.

[outsider]

I came here for information and only found a sad thread.

[caston]

outsider: Well a lot of people don't know how to argue their points eloquently and a lot of the time peer reviewed references and well thought out reason are left out. Unfortunately some people respond to this with naming calling which is the lowest level of disagreement and the thread turns into a childish internet fight.

To get a better understanding of how civilized people should disagree with each other please see the following chart:

Edited by caston, 28 March 2010 - 01:40 PM.