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Optimal L-Carnosine daily dosage


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#1 zencatholic

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 03:04 AM


Hi all,

At one time, I accepted without question the LEF position that 1000mg of carnosine per day was necessary to overcome the carnosinase enzyme, and that carnosine degradation was a bad thing.

Then I read an article entitled "Low dosages of L-carnosine are effective" in the latest edition of the IAS anti-aging magazine, which attacks the LEF position that the carnosinase enzyme must be overcome to obtain any benefit from carnosine. The article argues that carnosine degradation is actually a GOOD thing, because some anti-aging scientists believe that "....some of the benefits of carnosine are derived AFTER carnosine has actually been degraded by carnisinases, therefore degradation may actually be a good thing!" Here is a link from the IAS magazine website which discusses the concept:

Carnosine article

The conclusion of the magazine article:
1. "The assertion that at least 1000mg of Carnosine needs to be taken daily in order to by-pass L-Carnosine degradation is not true."

2. "The ideal dose of L-carnosine seems to be around 100mg to 300mg daily, preferably taken in association with other antioxidants."

What does everybody think about this?

How much carnosine do you think is the optimal dose? I note that Paul Wakfer takes 500mg of carnosine per day, and he explicitly states (somewhere on his morelife.org website, I believe) that he's not convinced that the carnosinase enzyme SHOULD be overcome.

I try to take about 300mg of carnosine per day. How much do y'all take per day? If I'm not taking the optimal dose, convince me otherwise.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Peace be with you all,
AMDG

Zen Catholic

#2 ryan1113

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 07:26 PM

When you take 1000 or 1200 mg per day as I do (in divided dosages), you'll be raising levels of both carnosine AND its breakdown products: histidine and alanine. As I stated before, both carnosine and its breakdown products have been shown to have potential anti-glycative activity, but only carnosine has as of yet been shown to actually unfold protein which has already been glycated.

And Paul Wakfer actually takes 500mg every 12 hours, giving him 1000mg daily. Notice the "B/S" in the left column, indicating that he takes this amount both at breakfast and supper.

The only drawbacks I see to taking carnosine at this dosage is that a small percentage of people have a mild allergy to it. It may cause a mild histamine reaction. A very tiny percentage of people (likely < 1%) have a more pronounced allergy and may have muscle twitching. This is far from the only supplement which small percentages of people are allergic to. For instance, some people cannot tolerate niacinimide supplements.

There is an extremely rare condition called 'carnosinemia' in children leading to severe illness. It used to be thought that the symptoms of the disease were due to high levels of carnosine in the blood, but it is now known that the body is unable to manufacture histidine/alanine directly, but can manufacture its own carnosine in an expensive process. The body churns out carnosine in a desperate attempt to get more histidine/alanine, but since the carnosinase enzyme is lacking, it is futile.

And, BTW, carnosine (not its breakdown products) has truly amazing rejuvenative effects when applied to the skin. Do a web search for "Beta-Alistine" and read about it. If carnosine has remarkable rejuvenative effects on aged skin, it may logically also have rejuvenative effects on other tissues in the body, maybe even the brain. I also might note that carnosine in much higher proportional dosages than humans will ever take has been shown to extend lifespan in rodents by over 20%. And the scientists who performed the experiment remarked on how 'young' looking the old animals were and how they retained the shiny-ness to their coats which typically disappear with age. Given that carnosine can become pro-oxidant at high dosages like so many other anti-oxidants, had it been combined with something like R-ALA to recycle the oxidized carnosine it's possible that the extension of lifespan may have been greater in these rodents.

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#3 zencatholic

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 08:22 PM

Hi ryan,

You are correct about Paul Wakfer's daily dosage of carnosine. Perhaps I should adjust my dosage to the "middle position" of 500mg per day.

I would like to see others share their thoughts.

Peace be with you,
AMDG

Zen Catholic

#4 AORsupport

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Posted 27 July 2004 - 04:46 PM

Hi all,

At one time, I accepted without question the LEF position that 1000mg of carnosine per day was necessary to overcome the carnosinase enzyme, and that carnosine degradation was a bad thing.

Then I read an article entitled "Low dosages of L-carnosine are effective" in the latest edition of the IAS anti-aging magazine, which attacks the LEF position that the carnosinase enzyme must be overcome to obtain any benefit from carnosine.  The article argues that carnosine degradation is actually a GOOD thing, because some anti-aging scientists believe that "....some of the benefits of carnosine are derived AFTER carnosine has actually been degraded by carnisinases, therefore degradation may actually be a good thing!"  Here is a link from the IAS magazine website which discusses the concept:

Carnosine article

The conclusion of the magazine article:
1.  "The assertion that at least 1000mg of Carnosine needs to be taken daily in order to by-pass L-Carnosine degradation is not true."


It is partly true that "....some of the benefits of carnosine are derived AFTER carnosine has actually been degraded by carnisinases", in the sense that carnosine's degradation products (beta-alanine and histidine) do have benefits of their own, but that isn't the issue: the issue is, how can one get the specific benefits of carnosine per se, such as the delay or reversal of cellular senescence and the disaggregation or accelerated degradation of glycated and otherwise-modified proteins. The other benefits follow inevitably as the first n milligrams of intake are degraded.

To do this requires that one take in enough carnosine to actually increase tissue concentrations above normal levels, and this does require the "swamping" of the carnosinase enzyme. Assessment of the appropriate dose rests on animal experiments, as human trials involving tissue biopsies are expensive and difficult to get past ethics review committees. These studies (citations appended) clearly show the need for daily doses equivalent to > 945 mg/day in humans (after adjustment for Kleiber's metabolic scaling law) to raise tissue concentrations and gain in vivo "anti-aging" benefits.

In fact, because primates have a specific carnosinase enzyme over and above the nonspecific "carnosinase" activity in rodents, it is actually likely that a somewhat higher dose is needed.

Carnosine should be taken on an empty stomach, as it competes with various dipeptides and amino acids for access to the active transporter in the GI.

To your health!

AOR

Maynard LM, Boissonneault GA, Chow CK, Bruckner GG. High levels of dietary carnosine are associated with increased concentrations of carnosine and histidine in rat soleus muscle. J Nutr. 2001 Feb;131(2):287-90.

Chan WK, Decker EA, Chow CK, Boissonneault GA. Effect of dietary carnosine on plasma and tissue antioxidant concentrations and on lipid oxidation in rat skeletal muscle. Lipids. 1994 Jul;29(7):461-6.

Tamaki N, Funatsuka A, Fujimoto S, Hama T. The utilization of carnosine in rats fed on a histidine-free diet and its effect on the levels of tissue histidine and carnosine. J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 1984 Dec;30(6):541-51.

Hipkiss AR, Brownson C, Carrier MJ. Carnosine, the anti-ageing, anti-oxidant dipeptide, may react with protein carbonyl groups. Mech Ageing Dev. 2001 Sep 15;122(13):1431-45.

Stvolinsky S, Kukley M, Dobrota D, Mezesova V, Boldyrev A. Carnosine protects rats under global ischemia. Brain Res Bull. 2000 Nov 1;53(4):445-8.

Yuneva MO, Bulygina ER, Gallant SC, Kramarenko GG, Stvolinsky SL, Semyonova ML, Boldyrev AA. Effect of carnosine on age-induced changes in senescence-accelerated mice. J Anti-Aging Med. 1999 Winter;2(4):337-42.
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#5 robertangel30

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:24 PM

I am grateful for this information. LEF's positions--on the bottle--seems to me to be under dosing.
One example is the green coffee sup. They recommend 400 mg before meals when the research says 800 mg.
LEF is very conservative with dosing with many of their supplements.

#6 JohnDoe999

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 11:21 AM

On the other side, you have Marios Kyriazis, who treats a lot of this patients with l-carnosine, and who insists on the benefits of low dosage. His patients, on average, takes 250 mg each day, but he has also recommended dosages as low as 50 mg. 

 

 



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#7 JohnDoe999

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 11:23 AM

Since there is no absolute consensus about the dosages of L-carnosine, I was thinking of cycling it, i.e. take a low dosage (100-250) day one, then 500mg day two, then 1000 mg divided in two doses day three. Does this make sense to you?

 

 






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