14 replies to this topic

[Vgamer1]

Or transhumanism's role in religion?

If possible, I'd like this thread to stay here and not be moved to the religion forum. I'd like to see a different perspective on the question.

[N.T.M.]

Or transhumanism's role in religion?

If possible, I'd like this thread to stay here and not be moved to the religion forum. I'd like to see a different perspective on the question.

Well one of transhumanism's key tenets is indefinite lifespans. That would dispose of the need for "safety nets" that're provided by religion. So one very clear consequence is a reduction in religious practice.

Edited by N.T.M., 15 May 2010 - 09:50 AM.

[chris w]

The least possible hopefully.

[Vgamer1]

Well one of transhumanism's key tenets is indefinite lifespans. That would dispose of the need for "safety nets" that're provided by religion. So one very clear consequence is a reduction in religious practice.

Indefinite but not infinite, right? What I'm referring to are accidental deaths or killings. Not to say that religion is needed to deal with these issues, just that I don't see religion ever completely vanishing.

[Kolos]

Well it's quite possible that many transhumans would be religious, perhaps it will be some for of New-Age syncretism, perhaps some more traditional religion would accept transhumanism to some extent, perhaps some new religion will be born it's hard to say but religious visions would still live in our imagination and perhaps they would shape the ways in which we use all this new possibilities given by technology. Many people might want to create heaven here on earth or realise some other religious and mythological visions that they think are beautiful. When you think about it this idea of creating a superpowerful friendly AI to guide and protect humanity seems to be inspired by Catholicism.

Also some transhumans might become so powerful and intelligent that even other transhumans would treat them like Gods. If any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic perhaps the same is true for advanced cousiosness and divinity. After all there is no clear, objective definition of what is God.

[Vgamer1]

inspired by Catholicism.

Or any other faith perhaps?

[Kolos]

Or any other faith perhaps?

Well not every religion place God(s) in such special relations with humans. For ancient Greek pagans it might be ridiculous to suggest that Gods care about us more than anything. Epikouros would even said that Gods can't be bottered with human affairs, because they are too happy and human world is full of suffering. People who believe that this super-AI is the best solution to all humankind's problems live mostly in western countries so that's the most probable inspiration although word "Christianity" is probably closer to the truth, since they might be also Protestants etc.

Edited by Kolos, 15 May 2010 - 03:28 PM.

[chris w]

When you think about it this idea of creating a superpowerful friendly AI to guide and protect humanity seems to be inspired by Catholicism.

I would say that it would be closer to something like Gnosticism, when we would have created a tool to get rid or vastly upgrade this mortal and weak flesh and become our own masters. Catholicism would apply here if we started to treat AI like a God and I doubt this will be the case, because we will remember that it was us who created it - it's hard to see your "child" as God if you are the "father". Anyway, of all religions I still think Mormonism fits best with Transhumanism, though they are a bunch of serious wackos if you ask me.

Edited by chris w, 15 May 2010 - 04:15 PM.

[Kolos]

I would say that it would be closer to something like Gnosticism, when we would have created a tool to get rid or vastly upgrade this mortal and weak flesh and become our own masters.

Hmm I would say Gnostics would complitely get rid of the body rather than upgrade it and perhaps this super-AI could be a source of secret knowledge but I doubt people like Kurzweil are gnostics or were influenced by this religion...

Catholicism would apply here if we started to treat AI like a God and I doubt this will be the case, because we will remember that it was us who created it - it's hard to see your "child" as God if you are the "father".

If this "child" become so much smarter than you, that you can't understand it's ways of thinking anymore, if you see things it do work but you don't understand how it becomes a God to you. Especially that at this point you can't really control it, you can only hope or perhaps believe that it knows whats best for you, so does it matter if you call it a God or UI or just "the computer" ? You don't really give orders to computer like that, you might ask it to do something for you and it might fulfill your request or not, depending from what would be the best solution and you can't really question it's judgment.
The only difference to a Catholic prayer is that you actually get your answer, perhaps even with some explanation.

Edited by Kolos, 15 May 2010 - 04:46 PM.

[Shannon Vyff]

The Trans-spirit group is pretty active: http://groups.yahoo....?yguid=69174212

The Transhuman Religion group hasn't been active for years, but there are some interesting old posts:
http://groups.yahoo....?yguid=69174212

Old being relative in this movement ;-)

Michael LaTorra is a transhumanist and a Buddhist monk, here is an ImmInst interview with him:
http://www.imminst.o...&...t=3876&st=0

We have some Christian and Islamic members here at ImmInst. We've had a host of members from different religions and philosophies. The Temple of Vampire is a one I learned of recently that supports the Immortalist movement

Alcor has some writings up on spirituality and various religions:

http://www.alcor.org/FAQs/faq04.html

http://www.alcor.org...yths.html#myth7


The Mormon Transhumanist Association is affiliated with Humanity+

http://transfigurism.org/

They have some very interesting ideas from the singularity and extreme future hard sci-fi standpoints of self transfiguration through technology and becoming gods and creating God through technology, dyson spheres and such.

[Vgamer1]

Thanks for the links!

[N.T.M.]

Well one of transhumanism's key tenets is indefinite lifespans. That would dispose of the need for "safety nets" that're provided by religion. So one very clear consequence is a reduction in religious practice.

Indefinite but not infinite, right? What I'm referring to are accidental deaths or killings. Not to say that religion is needed to deal with these issues, just that I don't see religion ever completely vanishing.

It won't. But it will greatly diminish.

"Indefinite" is quite achievable, and, theoretically, infinite extension is too. But that gets complicated. Besides, it's too far off to warrant our concern at this time.

[ken_akiba]

Imagine God is mortal. A lot less people will go to church (at least in Judaeo–Christian religions). Jesus is basically an embodiment of resurrection or rejuvenation or immortality or transhumanism. In essence, it is transhumanism that is the attraction of religion. Feasibility of scientific achievement of transhumanism will impact religion at its core to an unprecedented scale. The groundbreaking acceptance that our planet is not the center of the universe will be trifling compared to this.

Edited by ken_akiba, 16 May 2010 - 03:44 AM.

[bacopa]

nice meeting you Ken Akiba and I enjoy your comments, especially that last one.

[ken_akiba]

Why thank you, I enjoy yours too. have a great night.