107 replies to this topic

[scottl]

I've read the other threads and wondered what people's most recent thoughts were on Longevinex resveratrol.  Is it really significantly better then other brands?

Thanks.

[nootropi]

Now now, why would it be better if it contains the same exact constituents?  Does it contain different constituents than a competitor?  Enlighten us, scottl.

[scottl]

Perhaps unoxidized resveratrol.

If you read some of the prior threads e.g.:

David Sinclair is pumping up resveratrol, ...he's selling "Longevinex"

it suggests that resveratrol products are super easily oxidized....perhaps this companies stuff is hype, perhaps not.  I have no idea and wanted to know if there was a general concensus on this (Kevin, Nosmadar, or BJKlein any more recent thoughts?).  But if it is true that resveratrol is super easily oxidized then any you bought in powder form....

From another thread:

"longevinex that contains a bioactive form of resveratrol. Apparently, the makers of the product hired the Harvard scientist whose research shows the CR-mimetic effects of resveratrol to help them in developing a resveratrol-based supplement. Said researcher, David Sinclair, examined the potency of the various supplements on the market and found them severely wanting, so he worked with the longevinex folks to develop a manufacturing process that protects the compound from the oxidation that renders it ineffective. "

Scott

[Bruce Klein]

Hi Scott,

I don't have inside on Longevinex resveratrol, but perhaps Kevin P. or others may help.  You may need to contact via email.

[kevin]

heh.. been pretty immersed in stuff but caught this one BJ..

I would recommend reading the threads on sci.life-extension news group (go to Google->Groups) for a fairly wide range of opinions on resveratrol as well as plenty of links to literature which supports the idea that Longevinex is actually one of the few resveratrol supplements that contain the same compound used in experiments..

I've been taking it for a few months now and anecdotally it hasn't made me feel any worse...

Kevin

[scottl]

Thanks.

Scott

[ryan1113]

scottl said:

Perhaps unoxidized resveratrol.

If you read some of the prior threads e.g.:

David Sinclair is pumping up resveratrol, ...he's selling "Longevinex"

it suggests that resveratrol products are super easily oxidized....perhaps this companies stuff is hype, perhaps not.  I have no idea and wanted to know if there was a general concensus on this (Kevin, Nosmadar, or BJKlein any more recent thoughts?).  But if it is true that resveratrol is super easily oxidized then any you bought in powder form....

From another thread:

"longevinex that contains a bioactive form of resveratrol. Apparently, the makers of the product hired the Harvard scientist whose research shows the CR-mimetic effects of resveratrol to help them in developing a resveratrol-based supplement. Said researcher, David Sinclair, examined the potency of the various supplements on the market and found them severely wanting, so he worked with the longevinex folks to develop a manufacturing process that protects the compound from the oxidation that renders it ineffective. "

Scott

I don't believe this information is correct.

Sinclair and his team at Harvard tested the biological activity of many conventional resveratrol supplements available on the market before the thought of "Longevinex" was ever conceived of.  It was in response to Sinclair's findings that existing resveratrol supplements showed no biological activity due to oxidation that health journalist Bill Sardi contacted chemists in the industry to develop a resveratrol supplement which is protected from oxidation.  Sinclair has claimed that he has received no compensation from the Longevinex company, and announced on a mailing list that he planned to pursue legal action against Longevinex for using his name to promote their product without his consent.  Other than perhaps initially testing(?) the compound for Sardi, Sinclair made it sound as if he had no financial connection with them.

Sinclair found that only research-grade resveratrol produced under hypoxic conditions and sealed under nitrogen during storage were found to have significant biological activity.  The compound simply oxidizes rapidly... think of a sliced apple which turns brown after a short time.  Longevinex is the first supplement to be produced under a nitrogen environment, and sealed in an air-tight capsule with a nitrogen bubble inside to protect from oxidation.  For the same reason, the resveratrol in red wine is quickly oxidized in less than a day after the bottle is opened.  Since wine can be purchased in the plastic collapsable bags, some have chosen to supplement with resveratrol in this fashion.  However, one would have to drink over 10 glasses of typical red wine per day to get the same amount of resveratrol, if my memory serves; although some red wines contain more resveratrol than others.

Another problem with resveratrol is that it rapidly forms conjugates both in the digestive tract and during the initial pass through the liver.  Quercetin can saturate and bind to the same compounds which conjugate with resveratrol, so Longevinex also includes quercetin in the pill.  However, it is a small amount, and my guess is that all of the quercetin, plus all of the resveratrol in the pill will become conjugated.  A possible solution to this is to take extra quercetin (say 500mg) shortly before taking Longevinex.  Two published studies now have found that resveratrol rapidly forms conjugates and is likely not bioavailable.  Quercetin is believed to inhibit this conjugation, and quercetin also helps to activate the same gene that resveratrol does, albeit less potently.

[FunkOdyssey]

A year has gone by, anyone have any updates or fresh opinions on this?  Longevinex still claims to be the only resveratrol supplement that works, and everyone else that makes resveratrol supplements is still ignoring that claim.  I'm putting together a new supplement regimen and I'm trying to get to the bottom of this.

[zoolander]

is it the people that make longevinex that say that reseveratrol is the only resveratrol that works? That works? How can you quantify this considering that the exact way in which resveratrol works is not known. Even though research suggests that resveratrol has antiplatelet activity and has also been suggested to have antioxidant and antitumor properties. The exact mechanism in how it works is not fully understood.

Hence, for someone to say that longevinex is the only resveratrol that "works" is bogus unless a research study used resveratrol and this research study showed positive result compared to others which did not use the brandname "Longevinex".

Maybe there is some research out there but it just sounds like another cheap marketing ploy.

Just a side note....maybe it is just me....but the comments that nootropi made at the start of this thead seemed to be very patronising. ??

[DukeNukem]

I've been taking Longevinex since within a month of it's release, one or two capsules daily.  Bill Sardi makes a strong case for it being the best resveratrol supplement.  Plus, from a intuitive standpoint, it makes sense that it would be the best of the supplements, simply because it is encapsulated in an oxygen-free environment -- and O2 is harmful to resveratrol.  No other resveratrol supplement is safely delivered in this a way -- a way the closely duplicates the second best way to get resveratrol... wine.

[philmicans]

Nobody appears to have mentioned that it is the tran- version of Resveratrol that is active, that is; 3,5,4'-trihydroxy-trans-stilbene. Another similar chemical that can be called Resveratrol too is the cis version, that is; 3,5,4'-trihydroxy-cis-stilbene The cis version is consider not to be as active as the trans. I suggest this may be part of the puzzle, and to consider the use of trans Resveratrol as a superior source.

[mirian]

I want to know about this new found March 2006 Longevinex alternative.

Longevinex shows on March 15, 2006 independant studies were done:

Product B shows a good comparison to Longevinex for actual active Trans Resveratrol:

http://ww1.prweb.com...ebshelflife.jpg

But, yet on resveratrol news it shows the same:

http://www.resveratr...htm#openingpage

One says Product B has a gelatin capsule and the other says vegetable capsule.

I'm trying to figure out what brand Product B is?

I'm guessing Nature's Way resveratrol since they have the most active garlic pill too called Garlicin. Nature’s Way resveratrol is 75mg each Vcap and are listing 50% standardized close to the 52% as Product B. I called Nature’s Way and they guaranteed at least what the product says if not more which is consistant with the 52% showing vs. the 50% showing on their label. I asked Nature’s Way if they perform the same tests on this supplement as they do on their Garlicin product and she confirmed they do. Further, confirming that it might be the Product B since Garlicin is the most active garlic supplement even confirmed by Longevinex creator Bill Sardi. KnowledgeofHealth.com being Bill Sardi’s website actually mentions in his website under Garlic that Nature’s Way Garlicin has the most activity.  This would be rather ironic if Product B is Nature’s Way resveratrol being now his competitor with having started Longevinex.

I don't think it's Solaray listing 75mg like Nature's Way because old 2004 testing shows Solaray as having hardly any activity. But, Nature's Way is newer and wasn't out till after the 2004 Sinclair testing.

The 2004 Sinclair test listed the 13 competitor brand names, and this March 2006 test only says 5 other brands. Products A thru E. Listing Only dosages and tablet or capsule form for each are listed.

Longevinex’s own testing seems to show through Product B that resveratrol isn’t
such a fragile molecule. Longevinex always has maintained that mere light, oxygen, or
heat converts the active trans resveratrol to the non active cis resveratrol which cannot
activate the Sirtuin 1 DNA-repair/Longevity gene since Product B is a conventionally made capsule.

Anybody know for sure if Product B is Nature’s Way ? I plan on ordering a lot of this
Product B, once I found out??? Longevinex refuses to say writing them at: info@longevinex.com

Bill Sardi being the President and creator of Longevinex takes it three times daily too. If product B is
Nature’s Way, I’ll take 6 Vcaps daily. 2 Vcaps every 8 hours either: 8am/4pm/Midnight or 9am/5pm/1am. One bottle would last only 10 days being great since the longer the bottle goes once opened can only be a disadvantage for freshness. There is a Journal showing resveratrol lasts up to 9 hours. Plus, I’d take one 1,200mg non-ge/non-gmo lecithin softgel and 1 to 2-500mg capsules of non-ge/non-gmo Quercetin like Jarrow with each dosing of resveratrol both supplement shown in journals to improve resveratrol absorption.

Based on this Product B showing. Longevinex needs to take things to a higher level like: Not having titanium dioxide gelatin caps, and upping the resveratrol to a guaranteed 100mg of trans resveratrol by increasing to say 120mg per capsule instead of the current 40mg. Healthy Origins brand does this with their 100mg Kaneka CoQ10 softgels making them 105mg intentionally reassuring the consumer it
has at least 100mg when you consume it.  Just advising on their website and/or packaged supplement instruction to take lecithin and quercetin separately. Instead of Titanium using the chlorophyll Licap Vcaps Greenpower is using for European distribution of Longevinex under their own label which also avoid both the titanium and gelatin. Vegans won’t take gelatin, plus titanium dioxide is controversial in sunscreens and makeup and is in many brands of CoQ10 softgels except Jarrow Formulas and Natural Factors brands (both use safe and natural carob coating as a light barrier) that I know of little alone orally which might cause issues in the digestive tract before being removed by the kidneys. Some experts believe it is a less desireable in dietary supplements (since the premise is to improve health) therefore controversial substances should be avoided. Ivory bar soap doesn’t have titanium unlike most bar soaps. Even, aspirin has titanium except St. Joseph’s brand that I’m aware of. I’d never take any aspirin just shown as an example.

This link shows Titanium dioxide:

http://www.mercola.c..._sunscreens.htm

which states:

“The U.S. government's National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) labels the chemical "a potential occupational carcinogen."

Longevinex might even consider a higher potency version. Giving a no less than 167mg of trans resveratrol per capsule. Making three daily a total of 500mg. There’s a study out that indicates
researchers are thinking a minimum of 500mg may be necessary against cancer.

[syr_]

http://ww1.prweb.com...ebshelflife.jpg

It is if you really need a high dosage, which i doubt.

[zoolander]

I would agree with your guess that Product B is Nature's way. Nature's way products have been used in many studies and from this would say that they are of good quality.

Lonevinex's business is resveratrol. They are doing their best to sell their product as the best form of resveratrol on the market. To my knowledge they only sell resveratrol and are the only company on the market that have their sole focus on resveratrol.

They put forward a convincing argument. I am in the research field and with time can put forward a convincing argument to sell you anything. There are ways to fool/trick the buy/reader into believing that something is bigger and better by massaging the results and research to suit your needs. Not that I do this though   [tung]

I would go with what you believe, from your own research and feedback, is the most cost effective form of resveratrol.

[mirian]

Longevinex's own March 2006 study chart shows:

Product B at 35.54mg of Trans resveratrol

Longevinex Lot B at 32.27 of Trans resveratrol

This essentially dispels Longevinex's only real argument they had used by their own admission being this chart. Which I noticed they took off of Longevinex.com
website.

Their whole argument was that other brands of resveratrol were too low in the active Trans resveratrol which activates the Sirtuin 1 longevity gene. They have said that only airtight capsules like red wine's airtight bottles could prevent the
content from changng to Cis resveratrol which doesn't activate the Sirtuin 1 gene.

But, by their own admission Product B is a conventionally made capsule that's only 4.21mg lower than Longevinex's best Lot C at 39.75mg of Trans resveratrol.

The only human study underway is in Europe where a 500 milligram resveratrol pill is being used in a cancer prevention trial involving healthy adults.  This study is in Phase I, which is a safety study of a small number of individuals.  For more information concerning this trial, refer to:  www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct/gui/show/NCT00098969

While a recommended daily allowance has yet to be established, researchers believe a minimum of 500 milligrams of resveratrol should be taken to help reduce the risk of cancer.”  [ www.chiroweb.com ]

[mirian]

Plus, six capsules daily (two Vcaps every eight hours) of Nature's Way Resveratrol gives 300mg of Grpae seed extract which is the exact dailly dosage shown at:

http://www.newswise....es/view/519079/

Which states:

The one-month study involved 24 male and female patients diagnosed with metabolic syndrome. The patients were divided into three groups of eight. The first group received a placebo, while the second and third groups received 150 milligrams and 300 milligrams, respectively, of a new grape seed extract. All participants' blood pressure was automatically measured and recorded for 12 hours after ingestion.

“Participants in the two groups receiving grape seed extract experienced an equal degree of reduced blood pressure. The average drop in systolic pressure was 12 millimeters. The average drop in diastolic pressure was 8 millimeters,” said the study’s lead researcher, C. Tissa Kappagoda, professor of cardiovascular medicine and director of the Preventive Cardiology Program at UC Davis.

Kappagoda adds that the group taking 300 milligrams of grape seed extract also had reduced serum oxidized LDL cholesterol levels.

[FunkOdyssey]

Quote

While a recommended daily allowance has yet to be established, researchers believe a minimum of 500 milligrams of resveratrol should be taken to help reduce the risk of cancer.” [ www.chiroweb.com ]

Where specifically did you get that from?  I just did a little looking around on that website, and here's what I have so far.

We'll call this article, "things that make you go WTF":
http://www.chiroweb....s/22/09/15.html

An excerpt:

Quote

Even the best red wines may have little more than 2 mg per liter, but research in the scientific literature suggests that at least 10 times that amount (20 mg) is needed to begin to optimize the potential health benefits of resveratrol, and a hundred times that amount (100 to 200 mg) or more is required for actual potential therapeutic purposes.33

Now scroll down to the bottom where the references are to find that study backing up the dosage recommendations, labeled 33....

[FunkOdyssey]

I found the 500mg recommendation:
http://www.chiroweb....esveratrol.html

Quote

How much resveratrol should I take?

While a recommended daily allowance has yet to be established, researchers believe a minimum of 500 milligrams of resveratrol should be taken to help reduce the risk of cancer. A glass of red wine contains approximately 640 micrograms of resveratrol; a handful of peanuts supplies nearly 75 micrograms.

Which researchers believe a minimum of 500mg of cancer should be taken and where did they put that in print?  They don't even have a decoy missing footnote this time.

edit: lol... 500mg of cancer.  That's what happens when you don't proofread before posting. [lol]

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 06 April 2006 - 02:49 PM.

[mirian]

Well, I mainly just agree with the 500mg when someone has active cancer. 100mg to 200mg seems right for normally healthy people looking to attain optimal health.

Red wine can help one lose weight . [Health 2005 Aug p.45-6] Green tea’s “EGCG” does too, but inhibits Sirtuin 1 enzyme activity. [Betterhumans 2004 Jun 28] Its been known that animal protein (especially red meat), coffee, and alcohol raise plasma homocysteine levels, and folic acid, B12, and B6 lower it. Only alcohol form shown to lower homocysteine is red wine. [Eur J Clin Nut 2002;56:608-14]

The question is, does the scientific and medical community intend to withhold public notification of resveratrol’s potential until it becomes a drug? Fortune Magazine listed Dr. Sinclair's company called Sirtris, the Massachusetts-based company involved in the development of a resveratrol drug, as one of the top 25 breakout companies of the year 2005.

I think it's very crucial to take at least 500mg of quercetin with each dosing of resveratrol. Plus, a 1,200 mg lecithin softgel which helps with quercetin and resveratrol absorption. Jarrow Formula's a a great brand, and they've said that none of their supplements are genetically engineered (ge) or genetically modified (gmo). Jarrow is very affordable as well. Their quercetin is non-citrus so those with citrus sensitivies should have no problem taking it.

Red onions, red apples, and red wine all have quercetin. I've even read that red wine has malic acid in it too. Malic acid found in apples is also in Magnesium Malate. It’s responsible for the phrase “an apple a day keeps the doctor away.”
I've been taking NOW Foods brand of Magnesium Malate lately listed on their label as fully reacted.

I think knowing that red wine is the best food type of source of resveratrol, and its consumption being the chief reason for the discovery of resveratrol. So, trying as close as possible to taking the same elements in red wine can't hurt being resveratrol, quercetin, and malic acid. Even, Dr. Mercola says Magnesium Malate is the preferred form:

http://www.mercola.c...supplements.htm

[xanadu]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it the mediteranean diet and subsequent longevity and good health that prompted research that came up with resveratrol? Red wine was found to have wonderful health qualities and for a while people thought it was the alcohol. Many recommendations were made to drink a moderate amount of alcohol per day. The evidence for alcohol benefits seems to shrink the more it's examined. If a liter of wine has only 2mg of resveratrol, why then would we need 100 to 200mg a day for good health?

Another important point is that the resveratrol in wine and other items was not processed in an anoxic environment so I really doubt it degrades so readily and is so fragile as longivex would have us believe. That's based mostly on anecdotal evidence but how else can you explain the good health benefits of red wine and red grapes?

[mrak1979]

How much resveratrol, quercetin, and others are in a glass of good red wine?

[mirian]

You don't need 100mg to 200mg daily for good health. Just for possibly Sirtuin 1 DNA-repair also known as the longevity gene activation. Quercetin which also activates Sirtuin 1 just not as well as resveratrol should be taken with it. If you go on a extremely low calorie diet and maintain for your life which very few could in reality. Trans resveratrol has shown to activate the Sirtuin 1 gene the best so far known theoretically.

Well, you have to remember alcohol is generally bad for your health. Men who drank three glasses a day just 4 days a week had a 42% higher stroke risk. [Prevention p. 100 June 2005]

More than one drink daily for women increases their breast cancer risk. Men should consume no more than 2 glasses daily. One exception maybe Pinot Noir since it has the highest levels of resveratrol. For example, alcohol raises homocysteine levels while red wine has shown to lower it. Anyone would be drunk
to get near the levels to needed to be truly theuraputic especially against cancer, etc. This is what's so great about the resveratrol supplements. You don't have to deal with the alcohol.

France is a colder region than say California so their standard Merlot wine might have just as much as California's Pinot Noir wine. Pinot Noir wine grown in the France would be among the highest levels. Hence, no surprise the French Paradox
began in France not in a warm region of the world.

The Mediterranean diet food pyramid shows red meat at the very top meaning very sparingly. There are many good health characteristics of the Mediterranean diet like olive oil possesses Hydroxytyrosol being the highest ORAC (antioxidant) power of anything yet found.

In general anything organic has 2.5 times the antioxidant power of conventionally grown fruits and veggies. Plus, organic has higher levels of healthful minerals, and lower levels of unhealthy minerals than conventionally grown. So, organic cold pressed extra virgin olive oil would be extremely healthy.

[mirian]

It varies upon the red wine. Pinot Noir has generally 10 times higher levels of resveratrol than others. Problem is no guarantee on levels per bottle. Even, the highest level Pinot Noir from Italy or France might have up to 3mg per 5 ounce glass.

Ideally, would need to be drank the same day too which is inconvenient as well. Being the best case example, and the bottle would run you much more than some simple 15 to 20 cent 35 mg trans resveratrol capsule.

Not sure how much quercetin is in the red wine but I doubt no where near 500mg per 5 ounce glass. You'd need to drink at least 10 glasses of the finest Pinot Noir to achieve close to the amount in one good resveratrol supplement capsule.

[mrak1979]

i wish someone could confirm that product B in the longevinex study is natures way resveratrol... because it's so much cheaper than longevinex!

[Mind]

Quote

In general anything organic has 2.5 times the antioxidant power of conventionally grown fruits and veggies.

Mirian: do you have any data to back that statement up? Or are you talking about heat processed vs. unprocessed foods?

[mirian]

Yes, well I would be shocked if it wasn't Nature's Way because it's the only resveratrol supplement with it's same numbers being in a vegetable capsule
labeled at 75mg per capsule and standardized to 50% being 37.5mg each capsule.

I called and the product infomation lady said that they do HPLC test on their resveratrol. She said that their product is at least what the product lists if not a higher dosage if anything. Which makes perfect sense the Longevinex comparison chart saying 52% instead of the labeled 50%. Plus, their resveratrol specifically reads on the label:

"Our Resveratrol is tested and produced to certified quality standards."

Iherb.com is free shipping on order $40 or more. I just ordered four bottles myself for $10.99 each and free shipping from:

http://store.yahoo.c...sveratrol4.html

Looks like a lot of people figured it out too. Because I must have got their last few bottles because right now they're out of stock.

I'm finishing my Longevinex tomorrow being Friday, April 7, 2006 having been taking one Longevinex twice daily with one of each of these two Jarrow products:

http://store.yahoo.c...rb/choline.html

http://store.yahoo.c.../quercetin.html

Starting this Saturday I'll be able to afford for less money. Two Vcaps three times daily taken at 8 hour intervals of Nature's Way resveratrol. Still taking one of each of the two Jarrow products shown above with each of the two Vcaps.

[mirian]

Yes, Dr. Sherry A. Rogers whom has given over 100 physician lectures in 6 countries and wrote at least a dozen books has in her book called "Detoxify or Die" on page 58 says:

"Anything recently living, like a raw fruit or vegetable. And they have 2 1/2 times the antioxidant power (free-radical-fighting) ability when they are organic."

[FunkOdyssey]

Being called "doctor" (which could mean chiropractic, naturopathic, etc), giving speeches, and writing books doesn't make someone a credible expert.  All manner of snake oil peddlers have operated with that kind of resume.

We're looking for scientific evidence to back up this pretty wild claim.  The idea that all organic fruits and vegetables have 2.5x the antioxidant power is ridiculous on many levels.  Does pesticide somehow drain antioxidants from the fruit?  Why would this arbitrary 2.5x factor apply to all different varieties of plants?  It makes no sense.

[opales]

FunkOdyssey said:

Being called "doctor" (which could mean chiropractic, naturopathic, etc), giving speeches, and writing books doesn't make someone a credible expert.  All manner of snake oil peddlers have operated with that kind of resume.

We're looking for scientific evidence to back up this pretty wild claim.  The idea that all organic fruits and vegetables have 2.5x the antioxidant power is ridiculous on many levels.  Does pesticide somehow drain antioxidants from the fruit?  Why would this arbitrary 2.5x factor apply to all different varieties of plants?  It makes no sense.

The claim that organically harvested crop has more vitamins or whatever is crap, the fact is that the level of such nutrients etc. is very strictly under genetical control in a given plant and does not vary according to how the plants are grown.

[DukeNukem]

Quote

The claim that organically harvested crop has more vitamins or whatever is crap, the fact is that the level of such nutrients etc. is very strictly under genetical control in a given plant and does not vary according to how the plants are grown.

Here's my understanding:
o Organic plant foods are not sprayed with chemicals that might reduce phyto-nutrient quality.
o Organic plant foods are more often grown in soils that are more properly rotated and kept nutrient complete.  This translates into higher quality phyto-nutrients.
o Organic foods, overall, are less processed, and processing generally reduces nutrient quality.