• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
LongeCity .                       Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Found a dosing schedule to minimize "lithium fog"


  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#1 health_nutty

  • Registered User
  • 2,399 posts
  • 89
  • Location:California

Posted 02 June 2010 - 04:29 PM


If I take too much lithium, I get a bit of brain fog. I've found a dosing schedule that really minimizes this. Lithium has done wonders for my mood and axienty (especially morning anxiety and mood).

Previously I was taking 10mg in the morning and 10mg at night (with brain fog in the morning).

1) 5mg in the morning (no brain fog)
2) 15mg at night (this works better for my morning anxiety/mood).

Anyone else having trouble may just want to dose at bedtime or split the dose to be 75% bedtime and 25% morning

#2 meursault

  • Registered User
  • 370 posts
  • 38
  • Location:USA

Posted 02 June 2010 - 05:49 PM

If I take too much lithium, I get a bit of brain fog. I've found a dosing schedule that really minimizes this. Lithium has done wonders for my mood and axienty (especially morning anxiety and mood).

Previously I was taking 10mg in the morning and 10mg at night (with brain fog in the morning).

1) 5mg in the morning (no brain fog)
2) 15mg at night (this works better for my morning anxiety/mood).

Anyone else having trouble may just want to dose at bedtime or split the dose to be 75% bedtime and 25% morning


I've noticed that taking 1.25 mg of elemental lithium 90 minutes before bed followed by pomegranate extract 30-45 minutes later significantly decreases my need for sleep (with this I've slept about 30 minutes less than usual for the past 3 days that I've tried this).

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 health_nutty

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered User
  • 2,399 posts
  • 89
  • Location:California

Posted 02 June 2010 - 06:04 PM

I've noticed that taking 1.25 mg of elemental lithium 90 minutes before bed followed by pomegranate extract 30-45 minutes later significantly decreases my need for sleep (with this I've slept about 30 minutes less than usual for the past 3 days that I've tried this).


Have you tried the two seperately?

#4 bacopa

  • Validating
  • 2,223 posts
  • 159
  • Location:Boston

Posted 02 June 2010 - 08:53 PM

that lithium fog crippled me and still is bothersome for the past week. I was at 1200mg dose obviously of carbonate form, and it was terrible. The fact that you got that on a tiny dose is very telling.

#5 health_nutty

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered User
  • 2,399 posts
  • 89
  • Location:California

Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:18 PM

that lithium fog crippled me and still is bothersome for the past week. I was at 1200mg dose obviously of carbonate form, and it was terrible. The fact that you got that on a tiny dose is very telling.


Some people get it from as little as 5mg of elemental lithium.

I'm just doing the math:
1200mg of carbonate is 480mg of elemental lithium. Orotate is 3 times more bioavaible in rats. So my 20mg dose MAY be more like 60mg from carbonate. Still nowhere near the 480mg you are taking...wow I can only imagine.

Edited by health_nutty, 02 June 2010 - 11:19 PM.


#6 bacopa

  • Validating
  • 2,223 posts
  • 159
  • Location:Boston

Posted 03 June 2010 - 12:32 AM

I'm getting off that stuff, as I have a fragile, for lack of better word, brain, and I'm hoping that it is just the lithium, cause I've had fog before from psychosis...so this may have triggered another fog, but I'll only know if I get off it.

Edited by dfowler, 03 June 2010 - 12:33 AM.


#7 Lauren

  • Registered User
  • 58 posts
  • 37
  • Location:Greensboro, NC

Posted 03 June 2010 - 03:15 AM

No, Sweetie, you do not have a fragile mind at all. In fact, your mind is beautiful and fantastically resilient. I just want you to know that I am schizoaffective - bipolar subtype, and I too had suffered mental deterioration due to psychosis. What I wouldn't give to be able to have the mental capacities that I once had.

I had also taken lithium for my bipolar symptoms, and it too had locked me into a perpetual brain fog. Unfortunately, this had merely exacerbated my own fog which I had been experiencing from psychosis, and that has persisted even to the present time. In fact, this brain fog has become such a pervasive mitigating factor that it has greatly depleted my abilities at formalistic cogitation.


But you truly do have a brilliant mind, Sweetie - Don't ever doubt that for a second.


I'm getting off that stuff, as I have a fragile, for lack of better word, brain, and I'm hoping that it is just the lithium, cause I've had fog before from psychosis...so this may have triggered another fog, but I'll only know if I get off it.


Edited by Lauren, 03 June 2010 - 03:24 AM.


#8 health_nutty

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered User
  • 2,399 posts
  • 89
  • Location:California

Posted 03 June 2010 - 03:35 AM

I'm getting off that stuff, as I have a fragile, for lack of better word, brain, and I'm hoping that it is just the lithium, cause I've had fog before from psychosis...so this may have triggered another fog, but I'll only know if I get off it.


Why don't you adjust the dosage instead of getting off of it completely? It shouldn't be all or nothing. 1200mg is the higher end of the "Therapeutic" range (from 300mg-1200 mg of lithium carbonate).

#9 meursault

  • Registered User
  • 370 posts
  • 38
  • Location:USA

Posted 03 June 2010 - 10:59 PM

I've noticed that taking 1.25 mg of elemental lithium 90 minutes before bed followed by pomegranate extract 30-45 minutes later significantly decreases my need for sleep (with this I've slept about 30 minutes less than usual for the past 3 days that I've tried this).


Have you tried the two seperately?


Yes. This combination is continuing to work for me.

#10 HiQ

  • Registered User
  • 8 posts
  • 0

Posted 04 June 2010 - 08:17 AM

I took 5 mg of elemental lithium in 120mg of lithium orotate recently. I found that within an hour I had significant brain fog. One of the most profound effects I have ever had with any nootropic (or like substance) - despite it being a negative effect.

However, what I did find, was that around 2 days after the dose, the brain fog was relieved. During that day, I actually felt more focused and aware than usual. From this, I gather that I must be quite sensitive to lithium. From what I have seen, many people take anywhere from 10-20mg of elemental lithium from lithium orotate. I will keep using it, but on a decreased dosage (around 1.5mg elemental). But I may try the dosing schedule you suggest.

Oh, and the brain fog does go away (well it did for me anyway). You just need to give it a few days.

#11 bacopa

  • Validating
  • 2,223 posts
  • 159
  • Location:Boston

Posted 04 June 2010 - 03:25 PM

yay the fog went away finally I feel human again :-D
  • like x 1

#12 aaron_e

  • Registered User
  • 117 posts
  • 13
  • Location:.

Posted 04 June 2010 - 10:15 PM

interesting blog post with graphs and references on how lithium effects the circadian rhythm:
http://circadiana.bl...nd-bipolar.html

#13 chrono

  • Member, Moderator
  • 2,440 posts
  • 794
  • Location:New England

Posted 04 June 2010 - 11:19 PM

Thanks for the idea. I suspect I may use a schedule like this soon. Started 120/5mg Li orotate 6 days ago. Not noticing much fog, but the fatigue is pretty severe (oddly enough, it's pretty pleasant; just hard to stay up more than 12 hours). I've read that it can take 2-3 weeks for things to level out. Did anyone else get this fatigue, and if so, how transient was it?

Very interesting blog post, as well!

yay the fog went away finally I feel human again :p

Awesome! :-D Did you discontinue your dose all at once?

I'd also encourage you to think about a much smaller dose. I found one paper so far (mouse study) that suggests some neuroprotection is present at low dosages. Though I don't think any studies have been done concerning the more dramatic effects like gray matter generation.

Edited by chrono, 06 June 2010 - 12:44 PM.


#14 chrono

  • Member, Moderator
  • 2,440 posts
  • 794
  • Location:New England

Posted 22 July 2010 - 04:00 AM

I've been taking LiOr for about 7 weeks now. I used this dosing schedule from about week 3-4: 1.25mg with breakfast, and 5mg a few hours before bed. Switching from taking 5mg in the morning, it made a big difference with regard to brain fog during the day, and still helped me sleep at night.

But even with this 1-4 dosing schedule, I found that later in the day I was getting a little brain fog, and feeling more emotionally restricted and sedate. I felt best for the first part of the day, like it was improving my mood in "rebound" more than by working directly due to a certain serum level.

For the past 3 weeks, I've just been taking 5mg at night. After switching to this schedule, I found this improved mood to last for most of the day (mostly anxiolysis and improved stress response, but also a general brightening of mood), while brain fog was eliminated completely.

Wondering if anyone else has tried this night-only dosing?

Edited by chrono, 28 October 2010 - 10:29 AM.
forgot a word!

  • like x 1

#15 rwac

  • Member
  • 4,757 posts
  • 55
  • Location:Dimension X

Posted 22 July 2010 - 04:23 AM

Wondering if anyone else has tried this night-only dosing?


5mg/day at night works great for me.

Doesn't lithium have a fairly long half life ?

#16 chrono

  • Member, Moderator
  • 2,440 posts
  • 794
  • Location:New England

Posted 22 July 2010 - 05:12 AM

I think so. All this half life data is two-compartment, and varies with age and chronic use, so I'm having trouble finding convenient numbers. It looks like the plasma elimination half life is anywhere from 12-28 hours.

#17 pycnogenol

  • Registered User
  • 1,164 posts
  • 71
  • Location:In a van down by the river!

Posted 22 July 2010 - 03:32 PM

5mg/day at night works great for me.

Doesn't lithium have a fairly long half life ?


5mg/day at noon works great for me.

rwac - do you cycle it? I don't (well, not yet anyway).

I think (not totally sure though) that it does have a fairly long half-life.

Lithium and brain health article:

http://www.life-enha...late.asp?id=952

#18 rwac

  • Member
  • 4,757 posts
  • 55
  • Location:Dimension X

Posted 22 July 2010 - 03:56 PM

rwac - do you cycle it? I don't (well, not yet anyway).

I think (not totally sure though) that it does have a fairly long half-life.


I don't cycle it. All the data I can find says that the half life is about 12-24 hrs, but I find the effects wearing off after 3-4 days.

#19 chrono

  • Member, Moderator
  • 2,440 posts
  • 794
  • Location:New England

Posted 23 July 2010 - 10:27 AM

I wouldn't cycle it, unless it's a long period cycling. I found that it took a good 3 weeks for side effects to reach a point where they weren't interfering with my 'normal' state of mind, and a few studies I've seen suggested that it takes this long for some of the biological indicators to reach equilibrium as well.

#20 Lauren

  • Registered User
  • 58 posts
  • 37
  • Location:Greensboro, NC

Posted 18 September 2010 - 04:27 AM

yay the fog went away finally I feel human again :-D



That's awesome, Sweetie!! I'm so relieved to hear that you discontinued use of the lithium. I myself just discontinued use of lithium for my bipolar symptoms, and I think with such greater clarity now. I'm so glad to hear that you're doing so much better!! I love you *hugs*
  • like x 2
  • Cheerful x 1

#21 Thorsten

  • Registered User
  • 538 posts
  • 58

Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:56 PM

yay the fog went away finally I feel human again :-D



That's awesome, Sweetie!! I'm so relieved to hear that you discontinued use of the lithium. I myself just discontinued use of lithium for my bipolar symptoms, and I think with such greater clarity now. I'm so glad to hear that you're doing so much better!! I love you *hugs*


LOL You don't get posts like this everyday from fellow forum members... :laugh:

Does anybody know if it would be a good idea to supplement inositol with lithium orotate. I saw it mentioned earlier in this thread that lithium depletes inositol from the cells - Maybe they would compliment each other?

Also there are very few anecdotal accounts on here. That's my biggest gripe of most of the material on this site. People seem obsessed by studies and literature but very few people say how it is helping them. I appreciate the former is vital for sake of quality but personal accounts count for just as much when we are discussing topics such as this.
From what I have heard here, brain fog seems to be a fairly common effect. Not a lot I can really do with that information.
From what I have noticed so far is that it does seem to chill me out a bit. I'm only on 5mg orotate so may dose this chronically to see what the long term effects are. Maybe go up to 10mg or slightly higher to experiment with dosing as well.

Edited by Thorsten, 27 October 2010 - 03:00 PM.

  • like x 1

#22 health_nutty

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered User
  • 2,399 posts
  • 89
  • Location:California

Posted 27 October 2010 - 04:27 PM

Does anybody know if it would be a good idea to supplement inositol with lithium orotate. I saw it mentioned earlier in this thread that lithium depletes inositol from the cells - Maybe they would compliment each other?


I take lecithin which takes care of my choline and inositol requirement. The brain fog I had initially at higher doses (of 20mg) went away.

#23 Thorsten

  • Registered User
  • 538 posts
  • 58

Posted 27 October 2010 - 06:52 PM


Does anybody know if it would be a good idea to supplement inositol with lithium orotate. I saw it mentioned earlier in this thread that lithium depletes inositol from the cells - Maybe they would compliment each other?


I take lecithin which takes care of my choline and inositol requirement. The brain fog I had initially at higher doses (of 20mg) went away.


That's interesting to know, I was seriously considering not carrying on with it because of this annoying fog I have experienced already. My short term memory has gone to pot and my thought processes are a bit dissolved at present. Just out of interest what has lithium done for you? Positives, negatives?

#24 health_nutty

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered User
  • 2,399 posts
  • 89
  • Location:California

Posted 28 October 2010 - 12:37 AM

Lithium orotate has all but eliminated my anxiety and has helped with my mood a fair bit. It is also supposed to be good for neoroprotection. There is a study that showed that lithium is improves the effectiveness of antidepressents.

How long have you been on it? The brain fog went away after 3-4 weeks.

#25 Sciolaro

  • Registered User
  • 38 posts
  • 166

Posted 28 October 2010 - 05:11 AM

Lithium orotate has all but eliminated my anxiety and has helped with my mood a fair bit. It is also supposed to be good for neoroprotection. There is a study that showed that lithium is improves the effectiveness of antidepressents.

How long have you been on it? The brain fog went away after 3-4 weeks.


I've taken both orotate and aspartate regularly for about six months. I've never exceeded 20mg daily. I took 10mg before bed for a few months, and now I just take 5mg. I never experienced brain fog or any cognitive decline. I believe it has subdued my anxiety.

Just thought I'd toss my ticket in the hat.

#26 Thorsten

  • Registered User
  • 538 posts
  • 58

Posted 28 October 2010 - 08:55 AM

Lithium orotate has all but eliminated my anxiety and has helped with my mood a fair bit. It is also supposed to be good for neoroprotection. There is a study that showed that lithium is improves the effectiveness of antidepressents.

How long have you been on it? The brain fog went away after 3-4 weeks.


I've taken both orotate and aspartate regularly for about six months. I've never exceeded 20mg daily. I took 10mg before bed for a few months, and now I just take 5mg. I never experienced brain fog or any cognitive decline. I believe it has subdued my anxiety.

Just thought I'd toss my ticket in the hat.


Great, thanks, that's encouraging.

#27 Thorsten

  • Registered User
  • 538 posts
  • 58

Posted 28 October 2010 - 09:02 AM

Lithium orotate has all but eliminated my anxiety and has helped with my mood a fair bit. It is also supposed to be good for neoroprotection. There is a study that showed that lithium is improves the effectiveness of antidepressents.

How long have you been on it? The brain fog went away after 3-4 weeks.


Indeed I've heard of it being used to augment other types of medications. What types of medications would it be used alongside specifically? If you know this? I have tried searching for this information but unfortunately I came up short. I can see why they might do that as lithium on its own is not going to be a fun drug to be on. I've already noticed how it flatens me out somewhat (things that I'd normally find hilarious I'd now struggle to crack a smile at). Also the fog I have is not benefitting my cogntion that's for sure. On the positive side I feel more chilled and I think it is helping slightly with overactive thought processes.
I am also taking a cocktail of a few other supplements to try and neutralize this negative effect somehow and turn the gears up more slightly (idebenone, resveratrol,tmg, metafolin). Hopefully I can find a happy medium.

#28 nito

  • Registered User
  • 996 posts
  • 26

Posted 28 October 2010 - 10:37 AM

Lithium orotate has all but eliminated my anxiety and has helped with my mood a fair bit. It is also supposed to be good for neoroprotection. There is a study that showed that lithium is improves the effectiveness of antidepressents.

How long have you been on it? The brain fog went away after 3-4 weeks.



You mean i can take lithium orotate along side things like perika and serofin which are SJW without getting serotonin syndrome or things like that?

#29 chrono

  • Member, Moderator
  • 2,440 posts
  • 794
  • Location:New England

Posted 28 October 2010 - 10:41 AM

I was pretty sensitive to the brain fog, but it went away after a couple of weeks. I'd suggest a slow titration via quarters of a 5mg pill, maybe adding 1.25mg each week.

I've had to re-titrate a couple of times over the last few months after forgetting to take it for a few days, and I've never just started at a full 5mg again.

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#30 health_nutty

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered User
  • 2,399 posts
  • 89
  • Location:California

Posted 28 October 2010 - 03:52 PM

Indeed I've heard of it being used to augment other types of medications. What types of medications would it be used alongside specifically? If you know this? I have tried searching for this information but unfortunately I came up short.



You mean i can take lithium orotate along side things like perika and serofin which are SJW without getting serotonin syndrome or things like that?


http://www.mayoclini...ication/MY00639

It looks like it would synergize with SJW but the article talks about prescription anti-depressants.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users