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Resveratrol as an Acute Hunger Killer?


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#1 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 08:24 AM


For a long time before taking resveratrol, I was a buffet enthusiast. Every weekend, I'd hit some hotel or buffet restaurant, and have a satisfying pigout. But this practice came to an abrupt end soon after I started on 500mg (now 1g) of resveratrol daily. The reason is that, since I take it in the morning on an empty stomach, it seems to suppress my appetite, to the point that a buffet is no longer an economical proposition (unless I don't eat for 40+ hours, which is not practical).

So now, I'm on 1/23 intermittant fasting. By late evening, I'm ready to eat the paint off the walls. But by morning, my brain has acquiesced to my hunger, and I'm less hungry. So after a dose of resveratrol on an empty stomach, I'm not really interested in breakfast at all. So then, I sometimes undereat during my feeding hour, which just makes the evening hunger worse.

Suddenly (OK, after like 18 months of this) I figured out that I could use resveratrol as a hunger control tool. I've switched my dosing schedule. Now, instead of taking 1g in the morning on an empty stomach, I just get up and eat my monomeal for the day. Then later, when hunger comes, I take my resveratrol. Today, I took 1g during intense hunger around 2pm. It killed my hunger in minutes, replacing it with that slighly nauseous feeling that you get when you overeat. I went from dreaming about bread-and-butter the way that most guys dream about porn stars to "hmm, let's lift weights and get to work." Cool!

I plan to cut up my dose into 2x500mg parts tomorrow, so hopefully I can (1) control my hunger for longer, until the brain gives up on it anyway, as it does at night and (2) stretch out my 1g dose, so it gets absorbed a bit better, resulting in a higher effective dose for the same price.

My question is... has anyone else noticed this effect? (No, I'm not asking about whether resveratrol lowers fasting sugar or generally suppresses carb cravings. I'm pretty much convinced of that. I'm asking about using it as a "big hammer" to kill hunger entirely for a few hours at a time.)

If my experience is reproducible, then merely by changing dosing schedule, we should be able to use resveratrol to achieve deeper caloric restriction (or equivalently, more strenuous intermittant fasting) than would otherwise be physiologically tolerable.

The herb, hoodia, allegedly suppresses hunger extremely well. But I don't know enough about it to take it on a regular basis. Anyway, it's another idea, for those who know more about it.

By the way, my mention of CR/IF in conjunction with resveratrol isn't by chance. I'm admonished by the murine results which showed that resveratrol only extended life for (1) CRed mice and (2) pig-out mice, but not mice who ate a normal healthy full-calorie diet. In other words, I'm using IF to make sure that my resveratrol is worth the money. (Of course, resveratrol may operate differently in humans. Perhaps it still helps humans with a full-calorie healthy diet, but I'm ignorant of any evidence to that effect.)
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#2 unglued

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 09:51 AM

has anyone else noticed this effect? (No, I'm not asking about whether resveratrol lowers fasting sugar or generally suppresses carb cravings. I'm pretty much convinced of that. I'm asking about using it as a "big hammer" to kill hunger entirely for a few hours at a time.)


Appetite suppression has been reported before, yes.

It's listed at the beginning of the topic "Resveratrol Side Effects, good and bad" and was also discussed in the "500 club" topic, in this 2007 post:

I take my RSV on an empty stomach around mid-late morning. It def. inhibits my appetite so that lunch can easily become an afterthought if one isnt careful.


But that was on 50% pure resveratrol, which has a lot of emodin.

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#3 maxwatt

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 10:46 AM

I've not notice a hunger-suppressing effect. Looking for possible confounding factors, one possibility is exercise: I engage in biking, which combines a daily hour or more of aerobics with intense anaerobic efforts. Using the Cron-o-meter program, I found I naturally achieved my required base of 2000 (+/- a little) plus enough calories to cover the energy expenditure from exercise which I calculated from recorded heart-rate, weight and speed. But this was true before I took resveratrol.

resveratrol-guy: how much exercise do you get?

(FWIW, it occured to me: during a three-week period, extensive travel and a break from resverarol, I did gain about eight pounds which I slowly lost on returning to my normal schedule.)

#4 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 02:40 PM

I take my RSV on an empty stomach around mid-late morning. It def. inhibits my appetite so that lunch can easily become an afterthought if one isnt careful.


Thanks unglued, this is the kind of anecdotal evidence I was looking for -- a spike effect above and beyond the "generally less hungry" effect. Perhaps others have more data points, ideally placebo-controlled (not likely, I know).

#5 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 02:49 PM

I've not notice a hunger-suppressing effect. Looking for possible confounding factors, one possibility is exercise: I engage in biking, which combines a daily hour or more of aerobics with intense anaerobic efforts. Using the Cron-o-meter program, I found I naturally achieved my required base of 2000 (+/- a little) plus enough calories to cover the energy expenditure from exercise which I calculated from recorded heart-rate, weight and speed. But this was true before I took resveratrol.

resveratrol-guy: how much exercise do you get?

(FWIW, it occured to me: during a three-week period, extensive travel and a break from resverarol, I did gain about eight pounds which I slowly lost on returning to my normal schedule.)


Hey maxwatt, I get moderate exercise. Mostly short and high-intensity, e.g. climbing stairs or doing arm curls with weights. I probably walk about 2 or 3km on a typical day. But no where near your aerobic hour. If I try to push the envelope, my body rebels and my muscles go into CR slow mode. If I break CR for a few weeks, then I can push it as hard as I like, given sufficient food.

To elaborate a bit, the antihunger effect only comes when I haven't eaten for over an hour or two. If I take resveratrol immediately before food, then I pretty much lose my appetite, but it returns a few hours after eating. There's something about taking resveratrol a few hours after my meal that seems to make the antihunger effect last longer. My super-crude explanation is that eating leaves the appetite switch on, whereas resveratrol leaves it off; the last person in the room sets the state of the lights before he leaves, if you get what I mean.
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#6 maxwatt

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 03:06 PM

...
To elaborate a bit, the antihunger effect only comes when I haven't eaten for over an hour or two. If I take resveratrol immediately before food, then I pretty much lose my appetite, but it returns a few hours after eating. There's something about taking resveratrol a few hours after my meal that seems to make the antihunger effect last longer. My super-crude explanation is that eating leaves the appetite switch on, whereas resveratrol leaves it off; the last person in the room sets the state of the lights before he leaves, if you get what I mean.


From recent pharmokinetic studies, resveratrol achieves higher plasma levels taken apart from food by a few hours.

#7 malbecman

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 05:03 PM

I'll chime in since I see my original 2007 post quoted. I'm now on the >99% purity stuff, ~500mgs mid-late morning after my breakfast has mostly emptied out and I still notice supression of hunger although the effect seems to have attenuated somewhat. Either that or I've become habituated.
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#8 health_nutty

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 09:36 PM

I felt the hunger suppressing affects of 50% powder but none in the 98% resveratrol powder.

#9 maxwatt

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 12:35 AM

I felt the hunger suppressing affects of 50% powder but none in the 98% resveratrol powder.

Were you taking it well apart from meals? That may be an important factor.

Edited by maxwatt, 02 July 2010 - 12:35 AM.
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#10 health_nutty

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 02:42 AM

I felt the hunger suppressing affects of 50% powder but none in the 98% resveratrol powder.

Were you taking it well apart from meals? That may be an important factor.


I took them both at the same time (before breakfast).

#11 maxwatt

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 11:22 AM

I felt the hunger suppressing affects of 50% powder but none in the 98% resveratrol powder.

Were you taking it well apart from meals? That may be an important factor.


I took them both at the same time (before breakfast).

Resveratrol_guy's post seems to indicate he did not get the hunger-suppression effect unless taken on an empty stomach, and not followed by a food for at least one or two hours.

I am going to experiment with this. Instead of with breakfast, I'll try mid-morning and see if I experience diminished unger.

#12 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 06:38 AM

Resveratrol_guy's post seems to indicate he did not get the hunger-suppression effect unless taken on an empty stomach, and not followed by a food for at least one or two hours.

Precisely! I think that if I eat less than a certain time (an hour?) after taking resveratrol, that the food somehow catches up with the resveratrol in my gut, and impedes absorption, or worse, reacts with it. I'm sure that the critical separation time depends on many variables, but we can all tune it for ourselves. More to the point, my hunger seems to be naturally lowest in the morning (probably for some brain function reason, which is probably common to most people). By delaying my resveratrol dose until I'm most hungry, I'm more able to sustain deeper caloric restriction.As to resveratrol acclimatization, I've been taking 500mg or more for like 18 months, and have noticed no decrease in acute hunger suppression. I did, however, notice that the energy burst which occurs 30 minutes after dosing, did in fact go to zero after a few months. (I had 2 or 3 months of this when (1) I started taking 500mg/d and (2) I stepped up to 1g/d.) I wonder whether this is because mitochondrial biogenesis maxes itself out at any given dosage level within this time period. (I wish someone would take muscle cell biopsies of resveratrol users, but that's for another thread.)

I am going to experiment with this. Instead of with breakfast, I'll try mid-morning and see if I experience diminished unger.




Great! Please dump your data here. Even if it turns out to be placebo effect, diminished hunger will allow you to CR more.


Edited by resveratrol_guy, 04 July 2010 - 06:40 AM.


#13 niner

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 07:05 AM

Resveratrol_guy, I don't think you mentioned what kind of resveratrol you are using. Is it 50%, or is it a high-purity product (98+%)? The energy burst and appetite suppression you mention are consistent with a 50% product.

#14 resveratrol_guy

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 12:58 PM

Resveratrol_guy, I don't think you mentioned what kind of resveratrol you are using. Is it 50%, or is it a high-purity product (98+%)? The energy burst and appetite suppression you mention are consistent with a 50% product.


Hi niner. I use nonmicronized lab-synthesized trans-resveratrol powder (not polygonum extract). I had it tested by an independent lab in order to verify its authenticity, using high precision liquid chromatography. Because I combined my sample with a friend's sample (from a different company), I only know that the purity is at least 94.6% and at most 100%. The manufacturer claims that it's 97%, with the rest being primarily water. No emodin was found in the combined sample, even though I had it explicitly tested for emodin. But there was between 0% and 1.1% trans-resveratrol-3-O-glucoside in my half, if it matters.

Now that you mention it, the energy burst subsided at roughly the time that I switched to this brand, which is one of the reasons I had it analyzed. (I suspected that it might be fake.) But the appetite suppression is real. I was hungry an hour ago, so I took my gram in a glass of water. Now my stomach is growling a bit, but I'm not really interested in food. Weird...

By the way, when I previously had the half-hour energy burst, it was with a nonmicronized polygonum-sourced powder, at 98% purity.

Sorry, but I think it might be time to revisit the theory that only a high emodin concentration can create an energy burst.

#15 unglued

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 09:59 PM

I've always found that if I try to add up all the dietary advice I've heard, it becomes literally impossible to follow. For example, I've heard "multiple small meals spread throughout the day are better for your heart than three big meals", "breakfast is the most important meal of the day, and be sure to eat it within 90 minutes us waking", "stop eating several hours before going to bed", and "exercising on an empty stomach burns more fat". Now I'm hearing "take resveratrol several hours away from any meal". (Some people also believe in taking it more than once a day, because of its short half-life, although others believe an overwhelming amount will be absorbed better).

I'll give you this: I can easily believe that taking resveratrol twice a day, not within six hours before or after any meal, will mimic the effects of calorie restriction.

#16 niner

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 03:48 AM

Sorry, but I think it might be time to revisit the theory that only a high emodin concentration can create an energy burst.

The compounds in 50% extracts are A way to get an energy burst (and are the most likely way), but are not the only way. Resveratrol has some psychoactive effects of its own, though they usually aren't seen with modest doses of typical formulations. People frequently report such effects with buccal/sublingual dosing schemes.

Here's a paper that addresses possible mechanisms:

Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2006 Jun 2;344(2):688-95. Epub 2006 Apr 17.
Inhibitory effects of cis- and trans-resveratrol on noradrenaline and 5-hydroxytryptamine uptake and on monoamine oxidase activity.

Yanez M, Fraiz N, Cano E, Orallo F.

Departamento de Farmacologia, Facultad de Farmacia, Universidad de Santiago de Compostela, Santiago de Compostela (La Coruna), Spain.

This study investigated for the first time the potential effects of cis- and trans-resveratrol (c-RESV and t-RESV) on noradrenaline (NA) and 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) uptake by synaptosomes from rat brain, on 5-HT uptake by human platelets, and on monoamine oxidase (MAO) isoform activity. Both c-RESV and t-RESV (5-200 microM) concentration-dependently inhibited the uptake of [3H]NA and [3H]5-HT by synaptosomes from rat brain and the uptake of [3H]5-HT by human platelets. In both experimental models, t-RESV was slightly more efficient than c-RESV. Furthermore, in synaptosomes from rat brain, the RESV isomers were less selective against [3H]5-HT uptake than the reference drug fluoxetine (0.1-30 microM). On the other hand, both c-RESV and t-RESV (5-200 microM) concentration-dependently inhibited the enzymatic activity of commercial (human recombinant) MAO isoform (MAO-A and MAO-B) activity, c-RESV being slightly less effective than t-RESV. In addition, both RESV isomers were slight but significantly more selective against MAO-A than against MAO-B. Since the principal groups of drugs used in the treatment of depressive disorders are NA/5-HT uptake or MAO inhibitors, under the assumption that the RESV isomers exhibit a similar behaviour in humans in vivo, our results suggest that these natural polyphenols may be of value as structural templates for the design and development of new antidepressant drugs with two important biochemical activities combined in the same chemical structure: NA/5-HT uptake and MAO inhibitory activity.

PMID: 16631124


Edited by niner, 11 July 2010 - 03:50 AM.


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#17 NeuroGuy

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 06:49 PM

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20512477

Resveratrol, purified from the stem of Vitis coignetiae Pulliat, inhibits food intake in C57BL/6J Mice.
Kim SJ, Lee YH, Han MD, Mar W, Kim WK, Nam KW.

Jung San Bio Technology, Hwaseong, Korea.

Abstract
Neuropeptide Y (NPY) and agouti-related protein (AgRP) have powerful stimulatory effects on food intake, which suggests that the downregulation of brain NPY or AgRP may help reduce obesity and diabetes by inhibiting food intake. To search for active compounds that inhibit NPY and AgRP expression, we made two luciferase reporter assay systems consisting of NPY and AgRP promoter-driven luciferase genes, together with the puromycin resistance gene, in a plasmid vector. Each plasmid was permanently transfected into N29-4 neuronal cells. Using the systems, resveratrol was purified from the stem of Vitis coignetiae Pulliat by activityguided fractionation. Resveratrol downregulated NPY and AgRP promoter-driven luciferase activity in a dose-dependent manner. The inhibitory concentrations (IC(50), 50% inhibition) of resveratrol against pNPY-luc and pAgRP-luc activities were 8.9 microM and 8.0 microM, respectively. Furthermore, one-time intraperitoneal injection of resveratrol (100 mg/kg) suppressed 20.0% and 17.2% of food intake during 24 and 48 h, respectively. These results indicated that resveratrol inhibited food intake, which may be related to the downregulation of NPY and AgRP gene expression.


Edited by NeuroGuy, 13 July 2010 - 06:51 PM.





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