Jump to content

  • Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account

Photo
- - - - -

Are tannins in grape and blueberry extracts a concern?


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 ajgnet

  • Location:New York

Posted 02 December 2010 - 09:33 PM


I currently take daily from LEF (as part of a more complete regimen):

1x Mega Green Tea Extract (decaffeinated) - 725mg decaffeinated green tea
3x Blueberry Extract - 1350mg wild blueberry extract, 150mg Aurora Blue extract
1x Enhanced Berry Complete with RZD Açaí - 500mg acai, 200mg AnthoComplete
125mg Resveratrol
100mg Grape Seed Extract

Should I be worried about the tannins in blueberry and grape skins as a possible carcinogen?

#2 kismet Re: Are tannins in grape and blueberry extracts a concern?

  • Location:Austria, Vienna
  • yes

Posted 03 December 2010 - 12:55 PM

Be worried about the lack of real foods.

sponsored ad

#3 Guest_Eidnoga_* Re: Are tannins in grape and blueberry extracts a concern?

Posted 03 December 2010 - 07:25 PM

Be worried about the lack of real foods.


Surely the fact that they're not "real foods" isn't harmful in and of itself, assuming that the OP already eats a good, complete diet of whole foods?

#4 kismet Re: Are tannins in grape and blueberry extracts a concern?

  • Location:Austria, Vienna
  • yes

Posted 03 December 2010 - 10:08 PM

Surely the fact that they're not "real foods" isn't harmful in and of itself, assuming that the OP already eats a good, complete diet of whole foods?

Technically or in reality? Technically you just want to reach a given, evidence-based quota of XYZ. But if we want to replicate dietary habits of real people - shown to be healthy by studies - then a supplement is inherently inferior to a food source since it adds another layer of complexity (food + processing = supplement). Vastly inferior in the wrong hands.

Here: Eating berries, drinking wine and tea.

Sometimes the supplemental version has unique benefits e.g. polyphenols w/o the sugar, tho this only applies to highly glycemic foods, def. not berries; fish oil avoids heat-related txoins/parasites in raw fish, heavy metal contaminants and saturated/oxidised fat but lacks taurine - oh the dilemmas! Benefits must be weighed against the problems, which need to be solved or mitigated:

Was the right food selected. What is the quality at harvest?
Did the manufacturer standardise for the right compounds? Are they even known?

Were the active compounds destroyed or correctly extracted during processing? Introduction, generation of new ones and contaminants? Changed ratios? GMP or not?

Trustworthy manufacturer: Is there anything in the supp at all? At the expected dose? Tested by which analytical methods? Is the manufacturer-recommended dose supported by science? Is it laced with fancy compounds you do not actually want to supplement and sold as "combo"?

How long was the finished supp stored? How was it handled? How will you store it and how stable is it once processed?

Do the pharmacokinetics matter and are they changed without the food matrix? Are you replicating the way people actually use the food spaced throughout the day? (e.g. drinking wine after meals - not so obvious when just popping a pill)

Was this supplement or processing method employed in any studies?

Price vs food source? Are you fine w/ the additives and trace contaminants? (allergies?) Is production ecological if you care?

Edited by kismet, 03 December 2010 - 10:13 PM.

  • like x 1

#5 pamojja Re: Are tannins in grape and blueberry extracts a concern?

  • Location:Austria

Posted 03 December 2010 - 10:38 PM

If you would be serious you would have to ask many of these question about food just as well.

Here: Eating berries, drinking wine and tea.


Had some blueberries, wine and tea as supplements as well as food today. Don't really know where the stuff in the supplements originated, but the berries came from Argentina, the wine from France and the green tea from China.

Therefore I'm really more and foremost concerned about contaminations in food, because of he enormous difference in amounts taken daily.

What to do?

#6 Guest_Eidnoga_* Re: Are tannins in grape and blueberry extracts a concern?

Posted 03 December 2010 - 10:51 PM


Surely the fact that they're not "real foods" isn't harmful in and of itself, assuming that the OP already eats a good, complete diet of whole foods?

Technically or in reality? Technically you just want to reach a given, evidence-based quota of XYZ. But if we want to replicate dietary habits of real people - shown to be healthy by studies - then a supplement is inherently inferior to a food source since it adds another layer of complexity (food + processing = supplement). Vastly inferior in the wrong hands.

Here: Eating berries, drinking wine and tea.

Sometimes the supplemental version has unique benefits e.g. polyphenols w/o the sugar, tho this only applies to highly glycemic foods, def. not berries; fish oil avoids heat-related txoins/parasites in raw fish, heavy metal contaminants and saturated/oxidised fat but lacks taurine - oh the dilemmas! Benefits must be weighed against the problems, which need to be solved or mitigated:

Was the right food selected. What is the quality at harvest?
Did the manufacturer standardise for the right compounds? Are they even known?

Were the active compounds destroyed or correctly extracted during processing? Introduction, generation of new ones and contaminants? Changed ratios? GMP or not?

Trustworthy manufacturer: Is there anything in the supp at all? At the expected dose? Tested by which analytical methods? Is the manufacturer-recommended dose supported by science? Is it laced with fancy compounds you do not actually want to supplement and sold as "combo"?

How long was the finished supp stored? How was it handled? How will you store it and how stable is it once processed?

Do the pharmacokinetics matter and are they changed without the food matrix? Are you replicating the way people actually use the food spaced throughout the day? (e.g. drinking wine after meals - not so obvious when just popping a pill)

Was this supplement or processing method employed in any studies?

Price vs food source? Are you fine w/ the additives and trace contaminants? (allergies?) Is production ecological if you care?


Yeah, I agree that all of the questions you raise are relevant and important, but even (especially?) taking all these questions in mind, it doesn't seem to follow that supplementing with X, where the micronutrients X provides could also be provided by a whole food source is a bad idea per se, and certainly not all the time. We can only eat so much whole food, and only in so much variety each day. If there are beneficial nutrients to be had beyond what we get from this food, wouldn't it be at least potentially confer a net benefit to take them in supplemental form, assuming we're reasonably confident in the safety of the supplement?

As pamojja suggested, there are as many concerns (albeit different ones) to be raised over the safety of whole foods as there are over supplements. (Of course we have to assume some reasonable level of competence in selecting and using supplements, just as we have to assume some reasonable level of competence in selecting and eating things which are supposed to be nourishing foods.)

Edited by Eidnoga, 03 December 2010 - 10:51 PM.


sponsored ad

#7 ajgnet Re: Are tannins in grape and blueberry extracts a concern?

  • Location:New York

Posted 04 December 2010 - 03:31 AM

Hi -- Sorry, I didn't want to get into a discussion about the merits of food supplements versus the real food; I was just curious if the tannins in blueberries -- whether eaten whole or through supplements -- are a concern when consumed daily. Even eating a handful of blueberries and grapes daily introduces a significant quantity of tannins which may be a potential carcinogen. Thanks.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users