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Datura seeds to upregulate aChR and 5-HT?


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#1 bog

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 11:40 AM


Hello,
I was wondering if low dose of datura seeds, taken at the bedtime, would efficiently upregulate acetylcholine an serotonin receptors, since atropine, hyoscamine and scopolamine antagonize aChR and 5-HT.

It would work somelike as low doses of naltrexone.
This interrest me because datura is cheap and very easy to grow.
What is your opinion?

Thanks :)

#2 kikai93

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 06:06 PM

Hello,
I was wondering if low dose of datura seeds, taken at the bedtime, would efficiently upregulate acetylcholine an serotonin receptors, since atropine, hyoscamine and scopolamine antagonize aChR and 5-HT.

It would work somelike as low doses of naltrexone.
This interrest me because datura is cheap and very easy to grow.
What is your opinion?

Thanks :)


It really wouldn't work that way at all, and could have cumulative toxic effects. Datura sucks, both from a clinical and subjective standpoint.

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#3 bog

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 07:16 PM

Can you elebarote ?
Doens't antagonists upregulate the receptors?
Which toxic effects?

#4 ^ risetolower v

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 09:12 PM

Acetylcholine is needed during REM sleep and taking an anticholinergic drug before bedtime would probably reduce REM sleep quality.

Edited by ^ risetolower v, 11 January 2011 - 09:12 PM.


#5 treetop

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 01:24 AM

That sh*t is poison.

#6 maxwatt

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 01:30 AM

That sh*t is poison.

But it is an antidote to certain kinds of mushroom poisoning. ("One pill will make you larger, one pill will make you small....")

#7 treetop

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 01:44 AM

In very rare instances it may be an antidote. It's nearly always a poison.

#8 SayIDoAndIDont

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 11:35 AM

If you get bitten by a black widow spider, which increases acetylcholine levels to the point of toxicity, go ahead and take datura seeds, lol.

#9 bog

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 01:02 PM

Almost everything is a poison at high dose

#10 ^ risetolower v

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 01:56 PM

Piracetam antagonizes the effects of anticholinergics like datura seeds in the CNS, it would be interesting to find out the effects of a combination of the two.

#11 kikai93

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 06:27 AM

But it is an antidote to certain kinds of mushroom poisoning. ("One pill will make you larger, one pill will make you small....")




From Psychopharmacologia: "All parts of Datura contain dangerous levels of poison and may be fatal if ingested by humans and other animals, including livestock and pets."

It's in the same toxicity class as Deadly Nightshade. There are better ways to achieve these goals, period.

Edited by kikai93, 13 January 2011 - 06:30 AM.


#12 maxwatt

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 12:25 PM

The plant was in the US Pharmacopoeia a century ago, used to treat bowel irritation, ulcer, asthma and nasal congestion. The main problem is controlling the dose. Too much induces visions, hallucinations and strange behavior, and the difference between an effective dose and inducing such symptoms is not great. It can kill at high enough a dose. The seeds can vary greatly in potency, depending on strain and growing conditions. The leaves were sometimes smoked as a treatment for asthma or nasal congestion as this allowed the user to modulate the dose: one would not eat tobacco seeds. As recently as 1970 one could purchase Asthmadore Cigarettes at drugstores which contained the leaves, to treat asthma and colds.

I doubt that one seed would kill you, but there must be a better way to antagonize aChR and 5-HT.

#13 bog

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 04:12 PM

I doubt that one seed would kill you, but there must be a better way to antagonize aChR and 5-HT.

One as cheap as datura ? Which is easily arable and which is in my placard ? I dont' think so.
It can be so easily used without any poison effects.
To have regular effects alcohol extracts are very easy to make.
What's wrong with datura, you pussies.

Would antagonize receptors with datura cause their upregulation and procure a decent nootropic effects?
Thanks

#14 kikai93

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 11:29 PM

I doubt that one seed would kill you, but there must be a better way to antagonize aChR and 5-HT.

One as cheap as datura ? Which is easily arable and which is in my placard ? I dont' think so.
It can be so easily used without any poison effects.
To have regular effects alcohol extracts are very easy to make.
What's wrong with datura, you pussies.

Would antagonize receptors with datura cause their upregulation and procure a decent nootropic effects?
Thanks


Well first, calling people "pussies" isn't generally a great way to elicit their aid. As to what's wrong with Datura, let's go to Erowid. This is a website dedicated to providing real and pertinent information on a variety of psycho-active drugs, both legal and illegal. They will gleefully tell you all about a variety of psychoactives, how to dose them, what effects to expect, their legal status, how to produce them, the chemistry and pharmacology involved, etc. This is what they say about Datura:

As a general rule, Erowid neither recommends nor discourages the use of any psychoactive, however, in the case of tropane alkaloid-containing Solanaceae plants, we think it is important to note that an overwhelming majority of those who describe to us their use of Datura (and to a lesser extent, Belladonna, Brugmansia and Brunfelsia) find their experiences extremely mentally and physically unpleasant and not infrequently physically dangerous.

There is no way to guess a reasonable dose, because potency of the plant material itself and appropriate dose for an individual appear to vary so much. The question of what "reasonable" means for something that so often leads to such ridiculously negative effects is hard to say.

As an admixture plant in some traditional ayahuasca brews, smoking blends, or other preparations, parts of these plants are generally used in very low doses. Because of the serious adverse consequences associated with tropane alkaloids (scopolamine, atropine, hyoscyamine) intoxication and the wide variation in doses used, we are unwilling to even speculate about specific dosages for the leaves, flowers, and seeds of these plants.

If you are considering ingesting Datura-group plants, please read extensively from the collected experience reports and never take them without a reliable, sober sitter who understands the likely health issues and who can stop you from walking in front of traffic. Please note that fatalities from ingesting Datura do occur and hospitalizations seem to be quite common, in spite of the relatively low rates of psychoactive use of these plants.



These statements are all factual, and backed by clinical research, adverse incident reports, toxicology studies, anecdotal reports, etc. Tropane alkaloids are extremely dangerous. I recommend finding another solution.

#15 The Human Meteorite

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 01:30 AM

I doubt that one seed would kill you, but there must be a better way to antagonize aChR and 5-HT.

One as cheap as datura ? Which is easily arable and which is in my placard ? I dont' think so.
It can be so easily used without any poison effects.
To have regular effects alcohol extracts are very easy to make.
What's wrong with datura, you pussies.

Would antagonize receptors with datura cause their upregulation and procure a decent nootropic effects?
Thanks


Well first, calling people "pussies" isn't generally a great way to elicit their aid. As to what's wrong with Datura, let's go to Erowid. This is a website dedicated to providing real and pertinent information on a variety of psycho-active drugs, both legal and illegal. They will gleefully tell you all about a variety of psychoactives, how to dose them, what effects to expect, their legal status, how to produce them, the chemistry and pharmacology involved, etc. This is what they say about Datura:

As a general rule, Erowid neither recommends nor discourages the use of any psychoactive, however, in the case of tropane alkaloid-containing Solanaceae plants, we think it is important to note that an overwhelming majority of those who describe to us their use of Datura (and to a lesser extent, Belladonna, Brugmansia and Brunfelsia) find their experiences extremely mentally and physically unpleasant and not infrequently physically dangerous.

There is no way to guess a reasonable dose, because potency of the plant material itself and appropriate dose for an individual appear to vary so much. The question of what "reasonable" means for something that so often leads to such ridiculously negative effects is hard to say.

As an admixture plant in some traditional ayahuasca brews, smoking blends, or other preparations, parts of these plants are generally used in very low doses. Because of the serious adverse consequences associated with tropane alkaloids (scopolamine, atropine, hyoscyamine) intoxication and the wide variation in doses used, we are unwilling to even speculate about specific dosages for the leaves, flowers, and seeds of these plants.

If you are considering ingesting Datura-group plants, please read extensively from the collected experience reports and never take them without a reliable, sober sitter who understands the likely health issues and who can stop you from walking in front of traffic. Please note that fatalities from ingesting Datura do occur and hospitalizations seem to be quite common, in spite of the relatively low rates of psychoactive use of these plants.



These statements are all factual, and backed by clinical research, adverse incident reports, toxicology studies, anecdotal reports, etc. Tropane alkaloids are extremely dangerous. I recommend finding another solution.





Standardized extracts exist for a reason :cool:

#16 kikai93

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 10:51 AM

Standardized extracts exist for a reason :cool:


Why take a risk this great? The OP is talking about growing his own plants and then (possibly) making extracts. He was originally talking about eating the seeds. I doubt he will get the effects he desires this way, and it's a risky proposition.

#17 Thorsten3

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 12:48 PM

Haha I remember reading crazy trip reports on erowid about datura.. 'Interesting' is one word you could possibly use for this beast! And those phantom cigerattes, for those who had never even TOUCHED a cigarette in their life and yet there it was inbetween their fingers.. a fully lit cigarette burning away..they go to reach for it, maybe to take a drag and 'oh shit I've dropped it... where did it go?!... shit hang on I don't even smoke?!?!?..ehhh?...' ...

I know I am totally digressing here but it's a drug I would never take for recreational purposes, I admit I would be too afraid of such a thing. I think it is definitely one of the heavyweights when it comes to trips, not to mention blatantly dangerous if you OD by taking too much.. and how much is too much? Nah not for me thank you... Even if it was micro dosing for 'nootropic' purposes.. Although DMT on the other hand I am intrigued by (I have ayahuasca in my draw here, maybe I'll get around to trying it sometime). Not sure if you've heard of low dose ayahuasca, I think there a few die hards out there who apparantly reap the benefits of such a thing - obviously it isn't very relevant to the exact effects the OP is looking for acetylcholine - but there was a study which showed it upregulated 5HT quite a bit in those tribes who used it regularly.

Edited by Thorsten, 14 January 2011 - 12:53 PM.


#18 srd

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 05:01 AM

datura seeds are poisonous and also other parts of plants....it is used for homiside sometimes.

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#19 bog

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 01:03 PM

I doubt that one seed would kill you, but there must be a better way to antagonize aChR and 5-HT.

One as cheap as datura ? Which is easily arable and which is in my placard ? I dont' think so.
It can be so easily used without any poison effects.
To have regular effects alcohol extracts are very easy to make.
What's wrong with datura, you pussies.

Would antagonize receptors with datura cause their upregulation and procure a decent nootropic effects?
Thanks


Well first, calling people "pussies" isn't generally a great way to elicit their aid. As to what's wrong with Datura, let's go to Erowid. This is a website dedicated to providing real and pertinent information on a variety of psycho-active drugs, both legal and illegal. They will gleefully tell you all about a variety of psychoactives, how to dose them, what effects to expect, their legal status, how to produce them, the chemistry and pharmacology involved, etc. This is what they say about Datura:

As a general rule, Erowid neither recommends nor discourages the use of any psychoactive, however, in the case of tropane alkaloid-containing Solanaceae plants, we think it is important to note that an overwhelming majority of those who describe to us their use of Datura (and to a lesser extent, Belladonna, Brugmansia and Brunfelsia) find their experiences extremely mentally and physically unpleasant and not infrequently physically dangerous.

There is no way to guess a reasonable dose, because potency of the plant material itself and appropriate dose for an individual appear to vary so much. The question of what "reasonable" means for something that so often leads to such ridiculously negative effects is hard to say.

As an admixture plant in some traditional ayahuasca brews, smoking blends, or other preparations, parts of these plants are generally used in very low doses. Because of the serious adverse consequences associated with tropane alkaloids (scopolamine, atropine, hyoscyamine) intoxication and the wide variation in doses used, we are unwilling to even speculate about specific dosages for the leaves, flowers, and seeds of these plants.

If you are considering ingesting Datura-group plants, please read extensively from the collected experience reports and never take them without a reliable, sober sitter who understands the likely health issues and who can stop you from walking in front of traffic. Please note that fatalities from ingesting Datura do occur and hospitalizations seem to be quite common, in spite of the relatively low rates of psychoactive use of these plants.



These statements are all factual, and backed by clinical research, adverse incident reports, toxicology studies, anecdotal reports, etc. Tropane alkaloids are extremely dangerous. I recommend finding another solution.

This is a statement for recreational doses, which would be far away from nootropic dosage.




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