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Piracetam only works with Fish Oil


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#1 ^ risetolower v

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 03:05 AM


Piracetam by itself made me foggy, depressed, dull, and apathetic. But when I started taking lots of fish oil with it, the effect completely reversed. My sleep quality is greater than ever before. I can recall multiple dreams per night, with little incidence of nightmares. I feel even more motivated than ever before and acting in the way people like has never been easier! This happened in under a week, and apparently, piracetam is mostly beneficial in the long term. I'm taking 6 teaspoons of piracetam a day and 30 grams fish oil, which proves that piracetam's effectiveness depends on liquid fats like fish oil.

I remember reading something about piracetam having beneficial effects on membrane fluidity, which depends on available liquid fats. Does anybody have any info on this?

Keep in mind that fish oil is a fat, which is a macronutrient and doses like 5 grams and under daily are likely to be insignificant. I didn't get any smelly burps at all from fish oil. Perhaps it's because I keep it in the freezer, or maybe the fish oil is just good quality. It's the cheapest brand of molecule distilled fish oil I could find on the internet:

http://www.vitacost....0-mg-DHA-240-mg

I didn't have to take any choline for piracetam to work. Alpha-GPC made me feel depressed when I took it, though it was without piracetam. My diet consists of foods high in choline, so maybe some choline is necessary for people in a diet low in choline.

#2 mrak1979

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 03:09 AM

yea I've been hearing a lot of fish oil talk with piracetam... I've been taking piracetam with only alpha gpc, and I've been fine... wondering if fish oil would enhance it.

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#3 ^ risetolower v

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 04:05 AM

yea I've been hearing a lot of fish oil talk with piracetam... I've been taking piracetam with only alpha gpc, and I've been fine... wondering if fish oil would enhance it.

If you're getting positive effects from piracetam then my guess is that your diet provides enough liquid fat to handle the piracetam. Buy some fish oil then raise your dosage of piracetam. You should start to feel in the way I have described. Then, try taking the fish oil and see if the negative effects go away.

#4 Guacamolium

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 07:34 AM

You should be taking a high quality fish oil even if you didn't take a racetam. What is OP's point, exactly?
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#5 outsider

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 12:03 PM

I don't think that mega dosing with something gives any proof that it was really a fish oil deficiency (or simply said an excellent fat source). What I believe happened with you is that fish oil are one of the most healthy supplement available acting in a broad way but not really specific. So by taking so much you optimized everything in the body so that the specific deficiency you had has been compensated along the way.

Some people take some specific nutrients in a normal dose and seems to get the same kind of results about piracetam.
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#6 ^ risetolower v

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 05:41 PM

If it was as simple as a "deficiency", then it wouldn't completely reverse the effects of piracetam. I felt fine without fish oil when I wasn't taking piracetam, I was eating close to no polyunsaturated fat. Piracetam utilizes this type of fat somehow, probably for its membrane-permeating effects.

#7 Ichoose2live

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 11:15 PM

Very interesting... I remember Isochroma took 24grams of Fish oil per day with 4g of Piracetam every four hours, I think. He claimed that Piracetam was getting better and better each day and he was able to recall all his fantasies dreams. He also didn't take choline. I'm going to do a profound reading on Pubmed about Fish oil.

Edited by Ichoose2live, 24 January 2011 - 11:16 PM.


#8 Ichoose2live

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 02:18 PM

I remember reading something about piracetam having beneficial effects on membrane fluidity, which depends on available liquid fats. Does anybody have any info on this?

Keep in mind that fish oil is a fat, which is a macronutrient and doses like 5 grams and under daily are likely to be insignificant.


Piracetam: novelty in a unique mode of action.

Müller WE, Eckert GP, Eckert A.

Department of Pharmacology, Biocenter University of Frankfurt, Germany.
Abstract

Extensive research of the recent years has demonstrated that piracetam is effective in the treatment of cognitive decline in aging and dementia. It is usually much more active in situations of impaired brain function. Accordingly, its mechanism of action has been associated with neurochemical deficits of the aged brain relevant to cognitive dysfunctions. Since many of these neurochemical deficits depend on changes of membrane properties, including fluidity, it is of special importance that piracetam not only modifies membrane properties by interacting with the polar head moieties of the phospholipid bilayer, but also that this effect is more pronounced in membranes of aged as opposed to young animal and human brains, and that this mechanism also has specific relevance for brain membranes of Alzheimer's disease patients. Altering membrane properties might also be involved in vascular effects of piracetam such as improved erythrocyte deformability and normalization of hyperactive platelet aggregation. This novel mechanism of piracetam thus combines a rather non-specific physico-chemical mode of action with the pharmacological and clinical experience with this unique drug - effects are always much more pronounced when function is impaired.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10338102

Effects of piracetam on membrane fluidity in the aged mouse, rat, and human brain

References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.

Walter E. Müllera, Corresponding Author Contact Information, Sabrina Kocha, Klaus Scheuera, Angelika Rostockb and Reni Bartschb

a Department of Psychopharmacology, Central Institute of Mental Health, D-68159, Mannheim, Germany

b Pharmacological Research, Arzneimittelwerk Dresden GmbH, Meissner Str. 191, D-01435, Radebeul, Germany
Received 19 February 1996;
accepted 28 May 1996. ;
Available online 12 December 1997.

Abstract

In vitro preincubation of brain membranes of aged mice wirh piracetam (0.1–1.0 mmol/L) enhanced membrane fluidity, as indicated by decreased anisotropy of the membrane-bound fluorescence probe 1,6-diphenyl-1,3,5-hexatriene (DPH). Piracetam had similar in vitro effects on brain membranes of aged rats and humans, but it did not alter brain membrane fluidity in young mice. Chronic treatment of young and aged rats with piracetam (300 mg/kg once daily) significantly increased membrane fluidity in some brain regions of the aged animals, but had no measurable effect on membrane fluidity in the young rats. The same treatment significantly improved active avoidance learning in the aged rats only. It is suggested that some of the pharmacological properties of piracetam can be explained by its effects on membrane fluidity.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T4P-3RHM9JM-M&_user=10&_coverDate=01%2F24%2F1997&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1619228522&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=7712e7153836d37b0c50c266a3fb9103&searchtype=a

Piracetam-induced changes to membrane physical properties : A combined approach by 31P nuclear magnetic resonance and conformational analysis

References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.

Jacques Peuvota, André Schanckb, Michel Deleersc and Robert Brasseurd, Corresponding Author Contact Information

a Département médical UCB s.a. B-1420-, Braine-l'Alleud, Belgique

b Laboratoire de Chimie Physique et de Cristallographie and Research Center for Advanced Materials, Université Catholique de Louvain, B-1348-, Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgique

c Secteur Pharmaceutique, UCB s.a., B-1420-, Braine-l'Alleud, Belgique

d Centre de Biophysique Moléculaire Numérique, Faculté des Sciences Agronomiques de Gembloux, Passage des Déportés no. 2, B-5030-, Gembloux, Belgique
Received 1 December 1994;
accepted 17 May 1995. ;
Available online 29 March 2000.

Abstract

Piracetam, Nootropil® (2-oxo-l-pyrrolidine acetamide), is a drug promoting erythrocyte deformability. To establish the mode of action of this compound, we have investigated its influence on the organization of model phospholipid membranes. 31P NMR data show that the drug induces a structural modification in liposomes made of phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylethanolamine. Our conformational analysis results have allowed the interpretation of the effect of piracetam on these model membranes: the specific interaction between the drug molecules and the phosphate headgroups induces a new organization of the lipids favouring formation of mobile drug-phospholipid complexes that exhibit an isotropic-type signal in the 31P NMR spectra.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T4P-3YXBT50-3W&_user=10&_coverDate=10%2F12%2F1995&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1619227999&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d126c39aeffaae8d1248910437bba2bd&searchtype=a

Effects of Dietary Fish Oil Supplementation on the Phospholipid Composition and Fluidity of Cell Membranes from Human Volunteers
Background: Membrane fluidity is an important aspect of cellular physiology which may be manipulated by diet. Methods: We studied the effect of dietary fish oil on the membrane composition of erythrocytes and cheek cells, and on membrane fluidity of erythrocytes as assessed by fluorescence recovery after photobleaching (FRAP). Healthy volunteers received a daily supplement of fish oil (930 mg EPA, 630 mg DHA) for 42 days. Results: The intervention reduced the ratio of n-6 to total fatty acid in the phospholipid fraction of erythroctye membranes but the n-3 fraction remained stable and the ratio of cholesterol to phospholipid increased. The level of EPA and DHA in cheek cells increased significantly during the intervention period. The mean diffusion coefficient of the fluorescent probe in erythrocyte membranes increased from 7.2 ± 0.7 × 10–9 cm2/s at the start to 9.8 ± 0.5 × 10–9 cm2/s after 21 days. Membrane fluidity remained higher than the initial value 42 days after withdrawal of the supplement. Fish oil also reduced platelet aggregation in response to ADP but there was no effect on plasma lipid profiles. Conclusion: We conclude that n-3 fatty acids influence erythrocyte membrane composition at relatively low levels of supplementation by a mechanism which does not necessarily involve an increase in the level of EPA or DHA present in the membrane.

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowAbstract&ProduktNr=223977&Ausgabe=224616&ArtikelNr=12797

Piracetam Improves Cognitive Performance by Restoring Neurochemical Deficits of the Aged Rat Brain

K. Scheuer1, A. Rostock2, R. Bartsch2, W. E. Müller1, 3
1 Department of Psychopharmacology, Central Institute of Mental Health Mannheim, Germany
2 Pharmacological Research, AWD, Radebeul, Germany
3 Department of Pharmacology, Biocenter University of Frankfurt, Germany
Abstract

In order to test the hypothesis that piracetam improves cognitive functions by restoring biochemical deficits of the aging brain, we investigated the effects of piracetam treatment (300 mg/kg daily for 6 weeks) on the active avoidance performance of young and aged rats. After testing, the rats were killed and membrane fluidity and NMDA as well muscarinic cholinergic receptor densities were determined in the frontal cortex, the hippocampus, the striatum, as well as the cerebellum. Piracetam treatment improved active avoidance learning in the aged rats only and elevated membrane fluidity in all brain regions except the cerebellum in the aged animals. Moreover, we observed a positive effect of piracetam treatment on NMDA receptor density in the hippocampus and on muscarinic cholinergic receptor densities in the frontal cortex and the striatum and to a lesser extent in the hippocampus. Again, these effects were only observed in aged animals. Discrimination analysis indicated that piracetam effects on membrane fluidity in the frontal cortex, the hippocampus, and the striatum and its effects on NMDA densities in the hippocampus might be involved in its positive effects on cognitive performance.

https://www.thieme-connect.com/ejournals/abstract/pharmaco/doi/10.1055/s-2007-979231

The combination of Piracetam and high-dose Fish oil might increase/improve the membrane fluidity and Lipid bilayer in young subjects and subsequently, significantly improve cognition in healthy subjects.

DHA plays a crucial role in membrane order (membrane fluidity), which can influence the function of membrane receptors such as rhodopsin (13, 14); regulation of membrane-bound enzymes (Na/K-dependent ATPase) (15); dopaminergic and serotoninergic neurotransmission (16); signal transduction via effects on inositol phosphates, diacylglycerol, and protein kinase C (17); regulation of the synthesis of eicosanoids derived from arachidonic acid (AA) (10); regulation of gene expression (18–20); regulation of phosphatidylserine levels (21); protection of neural cells from apoptotic death (22, 25); stimulation of neurite outgrowth in PC12 cells (23, 24); selective accumulation of DHA by synaptic growth cones during neuronal development (23, 24); regulation of nerve growth factor (29); and regulation of neuron size (26, 27).

http://www.pnas.org/content/100/4/1580.full

Edited by Ichoose2live, 25 January 2011 - 03:17 PM.

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#9 caruga

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 07:37 PM

Did this work for you the first time or did the effect accumulate? Took 50 grams of fish oil today amounting to about 15 grams of omega 3 fatty acids, along with 2 grams of piracetam (less than what you took, but it's the dosage I normally respond to). I haven't noticed the fish oil do anything at all, which is my usual experience, and piracetam behaved as usual.

#10 Ichoose2live

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 08:08 PM

Did this work for you the first time or did the effect accumulate? Took 50 grams of fish oil today amounting to about 15 grams of omega 3 fatty acids, along with 2 grams of piracetam (less than what you took, but it's the dosage I normally respond to). I haven't noticed the fish oil do anything at all, which is my usual experience, and piracetam behaved as usual.

You should start with six grams per day of fish oil and then move up to 20 grams. Maybe there is a Fish oil/Piracetam ratio to consider. 2g is not enough. Are you taking Choline?? There is evidence that PC and other natural form of choline interact negatively with the Cholinergic mechanisms of the Racetams. See my other post.

Edited by Ichoose2live, 26 January 2011 - 08:13 PM.


#11 caruga

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 08:56 PM

I don't know what PC is, but yes I take choline, as I feel terrible if I don't cosupplement it.

#12 caruga

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 08:56 PM

You also didn't tell me if the fish oil actually worked at first or if the effects gradually appeared.

#13 Ichoose2live

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 02:52 AM

PC = Phosphatidylcholine
Yes, the effects are cumulative. I started at 2g per day, noticed nothing, then I increased my doses per 2g each day until I found some effects. Benefits for me start to show up at 20g/day of Fish oil. Dreams are fantastic! Vision and focus is enhanced amazingly. It took me at least 20 days to achieve the results. When I say ''Natural form of Choline'', I'll correct myself and say ''Salts form of choline'' or simply 'Supplements'

Edited by Ichoose2live, 27 January 2011 - 03:33 AM.


#14 Ichoose2live

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 03:13 PM

I just found a very interesting article about Essential Fatty Acids and Human Brain.

http://eshare.stut.e...12_6b292ce7.pdf

''there is also evidence that healthy individuals
can expect cognitive benefit from EFAs, mainly
EPA and DHA. Fontani et al.(27) conducted a double-blind
RCT on 33 healthy volunteers ages 22-51. For 35 days,
subjects consumed either 4 g fish oil/day ( 800 mg DHA
and 1,600 mg EPA) or 4 g olive oil as placebo. The
DHA/EPA group improved significantly over placebo on
several mood parameters: vigor, anger, anxiety, fatigue,
depression, and confusion. Measures of attention and
reaction time were also improved. Participants demonstrated
marked improvement in sustained attention and a
significant reduction in errors on the attention test.''

An other interesting article. Must read!
http://www.fi.edu/le...#faintelligence

Edited by Ichoose2live, 27 January 2011 - 03:41 PM.


#15 NG_F

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 03:50 PM

I would think that with dosages that high you would have to be careful about bleeding potential especially if you have any weak walled vessels or slight vasculitis in the brain or in any other vessel structures or organs throughout the body Posted Image

#16 caruga

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 04:07 PM

The amount does seem inordinate, but it goes on my todo list of things to investigate... way down on the list. Speaking for myself I need a good supply of acetylcholine for piracetam to work. For some reason I'm _extremely_ sensitive to the Ach depletion of piracetam, like it kicks its usage/metabolism into high gear. Where people talk about experiencing brighter colours and more energy, I get the opposite. My policy right now is to take choline and dmae with very small doses of ALCAR and caffeine to promote its conversion. The effect after taking this is immediate and my brain comes to life. I can also vouch for the choline sources alone not working as effectively, and that if I have >100mg of ALCAR (I use a mere 50mg) the Ach conversion is too much and I get tension headache; followed, a few hours later by the symptoms, of a lack of Ach once again. It's a constant balancing act to get the administering of choline/Ach/Piracetam right.

Can't say I've read of anyone else experiencing this, but the pattern is infallible for me. At least there's no denying Piracetam is funny and unpredictable stuff.

#17 Ichoose2live

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 07:17 PM

The amount does seem inordinate, but it goes on my todo list of things to investigate... way down on the list. Speaking for myself I need a good supply of acetylcholine for piracetam to work. For some reason I'm _extremely_ sensitive to the Ach depletion of piracetam, like it kicks its usage/metabolism into high gear. Where people talk about experiencing brighter colours and more energy, I get the opposite. My policy right now is to take choline and dmae with very small doses of ALCAR and caffeine to promote its conversion. The effect after taking this is immediate and my brain comes to life. I can also vouch for the choline sources alone not working as effectively, and that if I have >100mg of ALCAR (I use a mere 50mg) the Ach conversion is too much and I get tension headache; followed, a few hours later by the symptoms, of a lack of Ach once again. It's a constant balancing act to get the administering of choline/Ach/Piracetam right.

Can't say I've read of anyone else experiencing this, but the pattern is infallible for me. At least there's no denying Piracetam is funny and unpredictable stuff.


The problem comes from DMAE.
Start to read this topic DMAE - not such a good idea? and give me some news.
Topic2
You are taking 4 drugs which act on the cholinergic system. I suggest that you drop everything for 1 week and then you restart dosing with Piracetam and ALCAR only, without caffeine. Plus 6g/day of Fish oil, and if I were you, I would flush the DMAE in the toilet for your health.

Edited by Ichoose2live, 27 January 2011 - 07:36 PM.


#18 caruga

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 07:35 PM

Interesting that DMAE might lower Ach... those experiments don't address coadministration with an acetyl donor though. I've also read that choline bitartrate doesn't cause significant Ach increases by itself.

#19 Moddy2012

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 04:05 PM

Piracetam by itself made me foggy, depressed, dull, and apathetic. But when I started taking lots of fish oil with it, the effect completely reversed. My sleep quality is greater than ever before. I can recall multiple dreams per night, with little incidence of nightmares. I feel even more motivated than ever before and acting in the way people like has never been easier! This happened in under a week, and apparently, piracetam is mostly beneficial in the long term. I'm taking 6 teaspoons of piracetam a day and 30 grams fish oil, which proves that piracetam's effectiveness depends on liquid fats like fish oil.

I remember reading something about piracetam having beneficial effects on membrane fluidity, which depends on available liquid fats. Does anybody have any info on this?

Keep in mind that fish oil is a fat, which is a macronutrient and doses like 5 grams and under daily are likely to be insignificant. I didn't get any smelly burps at all from fish oil. Perhaps it's because I keep it in the freezer, or maybe the fish oil is just good quality. It's the cheapest brand of molecule distilled fish oil I could find on the internet:

http://www.vitacost....0-mg-DHA-240-mg

I didn't have to take any choline for piracetam to work. Alpha-GPC made me feel depressed when I took it, though it was without piracetam. My diet consists of foods high in choline, so maybe some choline is necessary for people in a diet low in choline.


Choline causes Depression, that is something you do not want when you need focus and attention. I used Piracetam with a choline source. It is mostly useless. The most noticeable effect of piracetam is that it makes you paranoid, the choline puts you in a sour mood. I now use Modafinil which is far superior and actually works. Modafinil in comparison, brightens your mood and makes you want to do things.

#20 Elus

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 03:23 AM

What an interesting topic. Over the past few weeks, I have raised the dosage of choline I take with piracetam (I usually take 3-4g of piracetam per day, or 1.3g 3 times per day), and I have been less motivated, academically, than I usually am, which has resulted in fairly poor grades (I am studying biology at Uni). I don't want to blame my lack of motivation, laziness, or poor performance on a neurochemical imbalance induced by higher choline supplementation, but it is an anecdote that may be worth considering.

I will attempt to eliminate choline with the piracetam I take and see how it goes from there. I think the most likely case is that I need to get my shit together and somehow motivate myself to study more. Trig functions won't integrate themselves, unfortunately :(

#21 caruga

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 04:55 PM

Taken 30g fish oil and 5g piracetam, straightup. Tik, tok...

#22 Logan

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 06:05 PM

Taken 30g fish oil and 5g piracetam, straightup. Tik, tok...


That's a fucking ton of fish oil. I hope you don't plan on doing this long term. How is this working out for you so far?

#23 stephen_b

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 06:56 PM

Choline causes Depression, that is something you do not want when you need focus and attention.


I wonder if inositol is needed with the choline to prevent depression.

#24 Logan

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 08:45 PM

Saying choline causes depression is a blanket statement that simply is not true. For some too much choline or certain types of choline may cause depression, but the right amount, via diet or supplementation, should not cause depression in anyone, IME.

Inositol is something I should probably supplement a little extra of. I may start taking an IP6 and Inositol supplement sold at the store I work at.

#25 Ichoose2live

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 09:49 PM

Saying choline causes depression is a blanket statement that simply is not true. For some too much choline or certain types of choline may cause depression, but the right amount, via diet or supplementation, should not cause depression in anyone, IME.

Inositol is something I should probably supplement a little extra of. I may start taking an IP6 and Inositol supplement sold at the store I work at.


I agree and there is a reason why Choline AND Piracetam cause depression. Recently I took a dose between 200 - 230mg of Alpha-GPC and I felt dull like never before.
My theory is this, Piracetam enhanced the synthesization of Acetylcholine from Alpha-GPC and hence gave me a side effect of excess Acetylcholine, which was the depression-like mood.
This is my subjective experience, I don't think people should rely on that one. But rather to take in consideration the possibility of a similar experience.

Edited by Ichoose2live, 09 March 2011 - 09:54 PM.


#26 caruga

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 10:40 PM

Taken 30g fish oil and 5g piracetam, straightup. Tik, tok...


That's a fucking ton of fish oil. I hope you don't plan on doing this long term. How is this working out for you so far?


Was following the recommended dose in the OP. It did absolutely nothing. 20 minutes ago I took a mere 200mg piracetam and felt more off of that (subtle and hard to describe, but definite feeling of difference, as opposed to jack off of the 4g).

I feel dark off of prolonged piracetam use without choline, but it doesn't feel like depression, just lethargy and difficulty thinking.

#27 Logan

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 10:45 PM

Taken 30g fish oil and 5g piracetam, straightup. Tik, tok...


That's a fucking ton of fish oil. I hope you don't plan on doing this long term. How is this working out for you so far?


Was following the recommended dose in the OP. It did absolutely nothing. 20 minutes ago I took a mere 200mg piracetam and felt more off of that (subtle and hard to describe, but definite feeling of difference, as opposed to jack off of the 4g).

I feel dark off of prolonged piracetam use without choline, but it doesn't feel like depression, just lethargy and difficulty thinking.


How long have you been using piracetam?

#28 Ichoose2live

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 11:43 PM

Taken 30g fish oil and 5g piracetam, straightup. Tik, tok...


That's a fucking ton of fish oil. I hope you don't plan on doing this long term. How is this working out for you so far?


Was following the recommended dose in the OP. It did absolutely nothing. 20 minutes ago I took a mere 200mg piracetam and felt more off of that (subtle and hard to describe, but definite feeling of difference, as opposed to jack off of the 4g).

I feel dark off of prolonged piracetam use without choline, but it doesn't feel like depression, just lethargy and difficulty thinking.


I've not recommended to take 30g/day of Fish oil. lol

Even so, I have reduced my dosage to 4g/day of fish oil. higher dose than 3g/day of fish oil causes biological oxidative damage and increases your risk of Hemorrhagic stroke. I have read on that site(I believe)that Piracetam might increases the chance of Hemorrhagic stroke. If you have read my recent post (http://www.longecity...post__p__454902) then I assume it is a sign of Hemorrhagic stroke. I've reduced my dosage of Piracetam to 3g/day.
7h AM - 1g PIR
12h AM - 1g PIR
17h PM - 1g PIR

EDIT: Just found out a positive long-term and high-dose study of Piracetam.

The clinical safety of high-dose piracetam--its use in the treatment of acute stroke.

De Reuck J, Van Vleymen B.

Department of Neurology, University Hospital, Ghent, Belgium.
Abstract

Recent post-marketing surveillance reports have confirmed the benign safety profile and lack of organ toxicity shown by piracetam during its 25 years of clinical usage. Tolerance has proved equally good with the more recent use of larger doses (up to 24 g/day) for the long-term control of cortical myoclonus and when given intravenously to patients with acute stroke. This paper provides a brief review of these findings and records the safety of piracetam as found in the Piracetam in Acute Stroke Study (PASS), a randomized multicenter placebo-controlled study in 927 patients with acute ischemic stroke. Patients receive one intravenous bolus injection of placebo or 12 g piracetam, piracetam 12 g daily for 4 weeks and maintenance treatment for 8 weeks. The major results have been reported (De Deyn et al., Stroke 28 [1997] 2347-2352). Safety was assessed taking into account adverse events including abnormal laboratory test results and mortality. Death within 12 weeks occurred more frequently in the piracetam group but the difference from placebo was not significant. Of many potential risk, prognostic and treatment-related factors examined by logistic regression, 6 contributed significantly to death of which the most important were initial severity of stroke and age. Neither treatment nor any treatment-related factor contributed significantly to death. Adverse events were similar in frequency, type and severity in piracetam and placebo groups. Events of cerebral, non-cerebral and uncertain origin likewise occurred with similar frequency. Few patients discontinued because of adverse events. There was no difference between treatments in the frequency of events associated with bleeding, including hemorrhagic transformation of infarction. An important finding was that, of 31 patients with primary hemorrhagic stroke enrolled, 3 piracetam-treated patients died compared with 6 on placebo. The results suggest that piracetam in high dosage may be given to patients with acute stroke without significant adverse effects.


Edited by Ichoose2live, 09 March 2011 - 11:56 PM.


#29 caruga

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 11:47 PM

Taken 30g fish oil and 5g piracetam, straightup. Tik, tok...


That's a fucking ton of fish oil. I hope you don't plan on doing this long term. How is this working out for you so far?


Was following the recommended dose in the OP. It did absolutely nothing. 20 minutes ago I took a mere 200mg piracetam and felt more off of that (subtle and hard to describe, but definite feeling of difference, as opposed to jack off of the 4g).

I feel dark off of prolonged piracetam use without choline, but it doesn't feel like depression, just lethargy and difficulty thinking.


How long have you been using piracetam?


I can't remember when I ran out of my 100g pouch, but it was a month, maybe two months ago. Got a new 500g pouch just today.

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#30 caruga

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 11:53 PM

Taken 30g fish oil and 5g piracetam, straightup. Tik, tok...


That's a fucking ton of fish oil. I hope you don't plan on doing this long term. How is this working out for you so far?


Was following the recommended dose in the OP. It did absolutely nothing. 20 minutes ago I took a mere 200mg piracetam and felt more off of that (subtle and hard to describe, but definite feeling of difference, as opposed to jack off of the 4g).

I feel dark off of prolonged piracetam use without choline, but it doesn't feel like depression, just lethargy and difficulty thinking.


I've not recommended to take 30g/day of Fish oil. lol


You're not the OP, though, or at least aren't using the same account.

And what you said was...

I started at 2g per day, noticed nothing, then I increased my doses per 2g each day until I found some effects. Benefits for me start to show up at 20g/day of Fish oil. Dreams are fantastic! Vision and focus is enhanced amazingly.


I wonder if you can prove that this buildup was due to the fish oil, and if you've recently gauged what happens when you ommit the fish oil or the piracetam. And now that you've said you've scaled back the dosages, do you still receive the benefits?




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