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HORMONAL status, PROSTATE condition (BPH), SUPPLEMENTATON, DHEA, LUTS


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#1 albedo

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 03:32 PM


First I wish to say this is my first post in this Forum which I have been looking at for quite a while and where I find lot of competence, enthusiasm but also that healthy dose of skepticism I love to see, e.g. in the supplementation area.

With this specific post I am looking at comments, sharing experience and receive bullets to discuss with my doctors on a sound scientific basis.

Lower Urinary Tract Symptoms (LUTS). I have mild symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH). It went improving on frequency and urgency. Night waking ups almost completely disappeared. I am using the LEF Ultra Natural Prostate formula since now several years and it is showing to be as much effective as a non pharmacological product can be. Also, I think the acupuncture sessions I run have been beneficial (there are studies on that and BPH). However, I need to retest the Post Void Residual (PVR) soon. Last measurement (about 2 months ago) has shown ~100 mL (not bad from 200-300 mL, I think a positive synergistic effect between low dose tamsulosin (my only regular medication as I did not find a "natural" equivalent) and natural prostate support formulations as the above mentioned). Also flow clearly improved using tamsulosin (0.2-0.4 mg) and I keep using it (again, even if I would like to find a "natural" equivalent).

Hormones. I had interesting results (last July) after one year. The values and % increases/decreases are:

• DHEA-S 196.2 from 38.5 (+410%) (50-377) (supplemented)
• Estradiol E2 12.0 from 10.6 (+13%) (11-44)
• Testosterone 565 from 444 (+27%) (282-1101)
• Free T (calc.) 98.6 from 72.9 (+35%) (26-167)
• DHT 13.9 from 49.3 (-72%) (14-107)
• Progesterone 251.6 (94-189)
• SHBG 43 from 42 nmol/l (+2%) (14-71)

The PSA has increased to 1.98. Despite my urologist found my prostate small I think it is getting larger with age (now 56) but so far he did not consider useful I use finasteride to shrink it. A linear fit to PSA values since 6 years shows a low velocity increase 0.05 ng/mL/year. A test using http://www.usrf.org/...A_Velocity.html over the past 3 years gives: 0.3 ng/mL/year (“ low risk”).

A nice result is that while my testosterone increased to the same level I had after a 3 months cycle of transdermal supplementation (a kind of test I did a couple of years ago) w/o doing nothing special, DHT drastically lowered and Estradiol (E2) seems in check.

The only way I can explain this is the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme inhibition by the LEF formula worked to avoid conversion to DHT and yet did not cause trouble increasing too much the E2 by blocking one of the two testosterone conversion channels (I read somewhere some express concerns in using saw palmetto over long time for this reason). I also strongly suspect more potency and effectiveness in the LEF formula as it went from product nos 975, 1275, 1475 and currently 1495 (I would not know how to retrieve easily the differences though). For completeness, I have also been using ketoconazole 2% shampoo 1-2x/week, pumpkin seeds extract and tocotrienols for my hair and I think all have been shown to have some DHT interference effects.

I also wonder if the alpha adrenergic receptor inhibition effect of the LEF formula compounds will also continue to show up in my PVR in the next test but this, I am afraid, will be masked by the tamsulosin therapy. In any case synergy is probably better that laser focused interventions.

For the first time I tested my progesterone which looks ok.

I have been using DHEA (25 mg) as I have been constantly found deficient. As expected the DHEA-S level increased despite not yet optimal (but I am always cautious on this when BPH). I am considering 7-Keto even if I feel jury is not out if yes/not this changes hormonal status.

Overall libido and performance are very good.

Have several questions, in order of importance:

• Should I continue with (low dose) DHEA? Should I try 7-Keto? One expert advice I once got was to supplement DHEA when both DHEA and testosterone are deficient. However, I must say I feel more comfortable seeing my DHEA also in norm with testosterone already OK.

• Should I continue using tamsulosin? Any natural replacement? I could not find one in my research. I am reacting well to this well known and largely used medication, no (felt) side effects but concerns on long term usage.

• Should I continue with testosterone replacing cycles from time to time?

• Should I consider using finasteride (or dutasteride) when considering side effects (much more important than with tamsulosin, e.g. potential masking of PSA growth)? The CombAT study support the use of both tamsulosin and dutasteride in terms of efficacy on BPH.

Thank you in advance and truly appreciate any advice and comment your feel to provide!

#2 pycnogenol

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 03:43 PM

Should I continue with (low dose) DHEA? Should I try 7-Keto? One expert advice I once got was to supplement DHEA when both DHEA and testosterone are deficient.



Maybe try liquid DHEA since it is absorbed through the mucus membrane in the mouth avoiding the liver for quicker utilization by the body.

Edited by pycnogenol, 22 January 2011 - 03:44 PM.


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#3 albedo

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 11:40 AM

Should I continue with (low dose) DHEA? Should I try 7-Keto? One expert advice I once got was to supplement DHEA when both DHEA and testosterone are deficient.



Maybe try liquid DHEA since it is absorbed through the mucus membrane in the mouth avoiding the liver for quicker utilization by the body.

Thank you picnogenol. Any thought on the 7-Keto?

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#4 albedo

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 01:46 PM

Most recent Feb test has shown DHEA-S back to normal after supplementation (12.5-25 mg/d in the morning). I decided to continue same does of 7-keto to check effect on hormones as androgenic effect is controversial. My PSA is normal but urinary PVR (post void residual) is too high showing mild BPH for which DHEA supplementation is not recommended.

#5 albedo

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 02:39 PM

NOT HAPPY AT ALL with my new 1 year blood test results and my theory in my initial post seems badly wrong! Anyone out there feeling for an advise?

Instead of normal DHEA, I tried using 7-keto as my scope was to keep normalizing DHEA-S while not interfering too much with testosterone and estrogen. As in the past, I kept using the LEF prostate support formula and continued to eat soy products for other benefits (e.g. general prostate health and BPH, cancer protection, cholesterol)

FAILED: DHEA-S drastically lowered 196.2 to 73.1 (-63%). 7-keto seems totally different from DHEA.

FAILED: Estradiol sky rocketed up 12 to 39 (+225%) !!!!!!!!!!!

FAILED: Free T lowered 98.6 to 79.8 (-19%) while Testosterone lowered 565 to 559 a bit less (1%)

FAILED: DHT increased 13.9 to 17.1 (+23%)

Of course SHBG increased 43 to 52 (+21%) as well as also Progesterone and remarkably more cholesterol!

So where am I going?

Scared by the estrogen increase: should I use a strong blocker such as I3C/DIM + Chrysin or ask for Arimidex prescription?

On the positive side: no effect on PSA (at 2), libido and performances are great!

Decided to re-consult with my AA doctor but you might have a suggestion ….

#6 Lufega

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 06:56 PM

You can try triazole. Ergo-log has a good article about it. Mangosteen is also anti-estrogenic.

#7 albedo

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 09:14 PM

Thank you Lufega, interesting will check it out.

#8 dillmatic

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 04:11 AM

I would not go near finasteride or dutasteride

propeciahelp.com
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#9 albedo

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 02:15 PM

Following Nov 11 latest tests and 4 months supplementation: E2 normalized (good!) but DHEA-S is still disappointingly very low and outside ref range: likely you need to take it non-sublingual and at its physiological dose of 25 mg/d as I did it in the past (vs half of it in average as I experimented now). Total T and free T are within range. Used with DHEA also I3C/DIM + Chrysin. PSA 2.2.

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#10 nowayout

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 02:49 PM

Instead of normal DHEA, I tried using 7-keto as my scope was to keep normalizing DHEA-S while not interfering too much with testosterone and estrogen. As in the past, I kept using the LEF prostate support formula and continued to eat soy products for other benefits (e.g. general prostate health and BPH, cancer protection, cholesterol)

FAILED: DHEA-S drastically lowered 196.2 to 73.1 (-63%). 7-keto seems totally different from DHEA.


You cannot test levels of 7-keto using the DHEA-S test.

#11 nowayout

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 02:53 PM

• Should I continue with testosterone replacing cycles from time to time?


Not a good idea in my opinion to do cycles. When you come off, you will be deficient in testosterone and probably estrogens for a month of two until your HPT axis has had time to kick back in, which is not good for your health. Either stay off or stay on.
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#12 Lufega

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 05:30 PM

Vitamin C seems capable of reducing BPH and if VEGF is a problem, glycine/gelatin should also work well.

Vitamin C supplementation prevents testosterone-induced hyperplasia of rat prostate by down-regulating HIF-1alpha.

Li SH, Ryu JH, Park SE, Cho YS, Park JW, Lee WJ, Chun YS.

Source

Department of Pharmacology, Ischemic/Hypoxic Disease Institute, Seoul National University College of Medicine, Seoul, South Korea.

Abstract

Benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) is a disease that impairs the well-being of many aged men. To alleviate BPH symptoms or to find a cure for this disease, key molecules should be identified that control prostate cell proliferation. Recently, HIF-1alpha has attracted attention in this context, because it is highly expressed in hyperplasic prostates and prevents prostate cell death. Thus, given that vitamin C inhibits HIF-1alpha expression in several malignant tumors, we examined its therapeutic potential in BPH. HIF-1alpha was noticeably induced by testosterone in prostate cells, and this HIF-1alpha induction was abolished by vitamin C. Vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) promoter activity reporter assays and semi-quantitative RT-PCR revealed that vitamin C inhibited HIF-1-dependent VEGF expression. Furthermore, HIF-1alpha suppression by vitamin C was rescued by knocking down HIF-prolyl hydroxylase-2, suggesting that vitamin C destabilizes HIF-1alpha via prolyl hydroxylation. Moreover, vitamin C treatment abolished cell proliferation induced by testosterone treatment to the control level. These results suggest that vitamin C inhibits testosterone-induced HIF-1alpha expression and by so doing effectively prevents prostate hyperplasia. In male rats, testosterone treatment for 4 weeks induced prostate hyperplasia. Furthermore, HIF-1alpha and VEGF levels were significantly elevated in hyperplasic prostates. In vitamin C-treated rats, however, most prostate hyperplasia parameters and prostrate HIF-1alpha/VEGF levels were markedly reduced. Accordingly, our findings indicate that vitamin C could be further developed clinically for use as an anti-BPH agent.
Copyright 2010 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.


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#13 niner

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 05:40 PM

Lufega, were you able to read the vitamin C BPH paper? Since it's from Elsevier, the thieves of public knowledge, there isn't free text. I'd be interested in knowing the dose of C they used with the rats. I'm guessing it was a lot, and vitamin C is something where the translation from rat to human dose might not be simple. If C would help BPH in humans at a feasible dose, that would be a pretty big deal.
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#14 albedo

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 06:36 PM

I very much would be interested to read the full vitamin C - BPH study in rats. Thank you for sharing Lufega.

#15 albedo

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 06:50 PM

Instead of normal DHEA, I tried using 7-keto as my scope was to keep normalizing DHEA-S while not interfering too much with testosterone and estrogen. As in the past, I kept using the LEF prostate support formula and continued to eat soy products for other benefits (e.g. general prostate health and BPH, cancer protection, cholesterol)

FAILED: DHEA-S drastically lowered 196.2 to 73.1 (-63%). 7-keto seems totally different from DHEA.


You cannot test levels of 7-keto using the DHEA-S test.

Thank you. My objective would be to normalize DHEA-S w/o impacting the other hormones. As my PSA is (slowly) increasing (I am 56) but within range and with a low velocity over the last 7-8 years and as I have symptoms of BPH (taking low dose of tamsulosin) I am very cautious. I only experimented with 7-keto at low doses. Do you mean I should expect no changes on DHEA-S when supplementing with 7-keto even at higher doses. Do I understand correctly your point?

#16 albedo

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 07:00 PM

• Should I continue with testosterone replacing cycles from time to time?


Not a good idea in my opinion to do cycles. When you come off, you will be deficient in testosterone and probably estrogens for a month of two until your HPT axis has had time to kick back in, which is not good for your health. Either stay off or stay on.

I did not seem being impacted by that, but much appreciated your comment. Just with DHEA and some other supplements traditionally used for prostate health (including taking the LEF formula) I was able in the past to rise my DHEA to within range with good results on T, free T and DHT. I am just trying to reproduce them. Results on T and free T were similar to what obtained with the 3 months cycle of transdermal T gel.

#17 Lufega

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 12:26 AM

Lufega, were you able to read the vitamin C BPH paper? Since it's from Elsevier, the thieves of public knowledge, there isn't free text. I'd be interested in knowing the dose of C they used with the rats. I'm guessing it was a lot, and vitamin C is something where the translation from rat to human dose might not be simple. If C would help BPH in humans at a feasible dose, that would be a pretty big deal.


I haven't read it yet. I'll try to ask a friend who can access it. I put my uncle on vitamin C for BPH. I figured 2 grams twice a day to fully saturate the body with vitamin C. That was a few months ago. I have no idea if it worked. He's giving in to surgery and getting hacked next week. Oh well..

Here's another concerning concerning HIF-1alpha inhibition.

Flavonoids induce HIF-1alpha but impair its nuclear accumulation and activity.

Triantafyllou A, Mylonis I, Simos G, Bonanou S, Tsakalof A.

Source

Department of Medicine, School of Health Sciences, University of Thessaly, 22 Papakyriazi Street, 41222 Larissa, Greece.

Abstract

Hypoxia-inducible factor-1alpha (HIF-1alpha) is the regulatory subunit of the transcription factor HIF-1, which is highly involved in the pathology of diseases associated with tissue hypoxia. In this study we investigated the ability of plant flavonoids to induce HIF-1alpha and regulate HIF-1 transcriptional activity in HeLa cells. We demonstrate for the first time that the flavonoids baicalein, luteolin and fisetin, as well as the previously investigated quercetin, induce HIF-1alpha under normal oxygen pressure, whereas kaempferol, taxifolin, and rutin are inactive. We further reveal that the capability of flavonoids to bind efficiently intracellular iron and their lipophilicity are essential for HIF-1alpha induction. Despite the ability of flavonoids to stabilize HIF-1alpha, the transcriptional activity of HIF-1 induced by flavonoids was significantly lower than that observed with the iron chelator and known HIF-1 inducer, desferrioxamine (DFO). Furthermore, when cells in which HIF-1 had been induced by DFO were also treated with flavonoids, the transcriptional activity of HIF-1 was strongly impaired without simultaneous reduction in HIF-1alpha protein levels. Localization of HIF-1alpha by immuno- and direct fluorescence microscopy and in vitro phosphorylation assays suggest that flavonoids inhibit HIF-1 activity by impairing the MAPK-dependent phosphorylation of HIF-1alpha, thereby decreasing its nuclear accumulation. PMID:18061585 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


The addition of either baicalein, luteolin, quercetin of fisetin might work well along with Vitamin C.
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#18 Lufega

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 01:08 AM

This is from the full paper:

2.7. The BPH animal model To examine the effect of vitamin C on testosterone-stimulated prostate growth, 3-month-old male Sprague-Dawley rats (30 0– 350 g) were obtained from The Orient Company (Gyeong-Gi Do, Korea). Rats were subcutaneously injected with corn oil in the control group ( n=5), with corn oil mixed with testosterone (10 mg/kg per day) in the BPH group ( n=5), or with testosterone plus vitamin C (intraperitoneally, 10 0 mg/kg per day) in the VC group (n =5) for 4 weeks. At 1 day af ter the final injection, prostates were excised, weighed and used for the following experiments. To monitor BPH progress, rat blood was sampled from tail veins and prepared for plasma prostate specific antigen (PSA) level determination by ELISA (USCN Life Science and Technology, Missouri, TX, USA), according to the manufacturer's instructions. All animal procedures were performe d in accord with the Seoul National University Laboratory Animal Maintenance Manual.


How much is that in human doses? A couple of grams, I think ?

edit: There was this near the very end.

In the present study, we injected 10 0 mg/kg of vitamin C daily into rats, which equates to a daily dose of 7 g/70 kg of body weight, which is within the vitamin C dose range tolerable to human. Accordingly, it may be that vitamin C at such a tolerable dosage is effective at preventing BPH in man. This notion is certainly worth considering in the context of retarding prostate growth in BPH patients.


Edited by Lufega, 06 February 2012 - 01:18 AM.


#19 albedo

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 05:55 PM

This is from the full paper:

... or with testosterone plus vitamin C (intraperitoneally, 10 0 mg/kg per day) in the VC group (n =5) for 4 weeks. ...


How much is that in human doses? A couple of grams, I think ?

edit: There was this near the very end.

.... which equates to a daily dose of 7 g/70 kg of body weight, which is within the vitamin C dose range tolerable to human....

Thank you Lufega. Could it be less if we use BSA (Body Surface Area, see attachment)? Would it make sense? If I calculate rightly it should be HED (based on BSA) = 1.62 mg/kg (or 113 mg for 70kg weight) which looks very low !

Attached Files



#20 Lufega

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 06:11 PM

Thank you Lufega. Could it be less if we use BSA (Body Surface Area, see attachment)? Would it make sense? If I calculate rightly it should be HED (based on BSA) = 1.62 mg/kg (or 113 mg for 70kg weight) which looks very low !


I have no idea. But it is a very good question. Maybe you can forward that question to the authors of the vitamin C study. If anyone can answer this, it would be them.

That said, can you tell me how I can attach the study ? I want to put it up for others to read and interpret and hopefully, post their opinions.

#21 Lufega

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:51 AM

Glycine/Gelatin also inhibit HIF.

Glycine pretreatment ameliorates liver injury after partial hepatectomy in the rat.

Benko T, Frede S, Gu Y, Best J, Baba HA, Schlaak JF, de Groot H, Fandrey J, Rauen U.

Source

Department of Surgery and Transplantation, Semmelweis University, Budapest, Hungary.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Living donor liver transplantation subjects the donor to a major hepatectomy. Pharmacological or nutritive protection of the liver during the procedure is desirable to ensure that the remnant is able to maintain sufficient function. The aim of our study was to analyze the effects of pretreatments with alpha-tocopherol (vitamin E), the flavonoid silibinin and/or the amino acid L-glycine on the donor in a rat model.
METHODS:

Male Wistar rats were pretreated with L-glycine (5% in chow, 5 days), alpha-tocopherol (100 mg/kg body weight by gavage, 3 days) and/or silibinin (100 mg/kg body weight, i.p., 5 days). Thereafter, 90% partial hepatectomy was performed without portal vein clamping.
RESULTS:

Glycine pretreatment markedly decreased transaminase release (AST, 12 hr: glycine 1292 +/- 192 U/L, control 2311 +/- 556 U/L, p < .05; ALT, 12 hr: glycine 1013 +/- 278 U/L, control 2038 +/- 500 U/L, p < .05), serum ALP activity and serum bilirubin levels (p < .05). Prothrombin time was reduced, and histologically, liver injury was also decreased in the glycine group. Silibinin pretreatment was less advantageous and pretreatment with alpha-tocopherol at this very high dose showed some adverse effects. Combined, i.e., triple pretreatment was less advantageous than glycine alone. Liver resection induced HIF-1alpha accumulation and HIF-1alpha accumulation was also decreased by glycine pretreatment.
CONCLUSION:

The decrease of liver injury and improvement of liver function after pretreatment with glycine suggests that glycine pretreatment might be beneficial for living liver donors as well as for patients subjected to partial hepatectomy for other reasons. PMID:20233000 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



#22 Lufega

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 03:48 AM

It seems that HIF activation is also involved in the pathogenesis of testicular varicocele and varicose veins. I wonder if supplemental vitamin C can also have a positive effect there.
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#23 albedo

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 05:49 PM

...That said, can you tell me how I can attach the study ? I want to put it up for others to read and interpret and hopefully, post their opinions.

Not sure I understand Lufega: in the "More Reply Options" you have a button you can use to attach files. Does this replies?

#24 Lufega

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 02:57 AM

Total oversight :-D

Attached Files



#25 nowayout

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 03:02 AM

Tadalafil (Cialis) was recently approved for BPH symptoms. Of course it has other benefits also, including lowering blood pressure and the obvious ones in the bedroom.

http://www.medscape....warticle/751150

Tadalafil Approved for Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia

Robert Lowes


October 6, 2011 — The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) today approved tadalafil (Cialis, Eli Lilly), a phosphodiesterase-5 inhibitor, to also treat the signs and symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) as well as a combination of BPH and erectile dysfunction (ED) when the conditions coincide.
Men with BPH often experience sudden urges to urinate, difficulty in starting urination, a weak urine stream, and more frequent urination, including at night. In 2 clinical trials, men with BPH who took 5 mg of tadalafil daily experienced a significant improvement in these symptoms compared with men receiving a placebo. A third study showed that men who experienced both ED and BPH and who took 5 mg of tadalafil daily had improvement in both conditions compared with a placebo group.
Scott Monroe, MD, director of the Division of Reproductive and Urologic Products in the FDA's Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, said in a press release that both BPH and ED are common disorders among older men. "Cialis offers these men another treatment option," Dr. Monroe said.

Tadalafil joins a long list of other FDA-approved drugs for BPH symptoms: finasteride (Proscar), dutasteride (Avodart), dusasteride plus tamsulosin (Jalyn), and alpha-blockers terazosin (Hytrin), doxazosin (Cardura), tamsulosin (Flomax), alfuzosin (Uroxatral), and silodosin (Rapaflo).
The agency approved tadalafil for treating ED in 2003.
The FDA advises clinicians that they should not prescribe tadalafil for men taking nitrates such as nitroglycerin because the combination may trigger an unsafe drop in blood pressure. Also, the agency does not recommend combining tadalafil with alpha-blockers for the treatment of BPH because the combo therapy has not been adequately studied, and it comes with a risk of lowering blood pressure.


Edited by viveutvivas, 10 February 2012 - 03:06 AM.


#26 albedo

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 01:01 PM

In the LEF Forum, where I try also to contribute, I posted the reply of a practicing doctor which I found interesting re DHEA supplementation and hormonal status in men. I have thought useful to report it also here. Unfortunately Dr Alicia could not continuing writing on this topic.

http://ask.lef.org/1...ion?PageIndex=1

----------- post of dr. alicia dated 9/15/2010 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am a practicing physician who commonly prescribes DHEA supplementation to those patients who are sub-clinically low to low depending on a number of factors. DHEA-s (sulfured in the body) is an adrenal hormone that is a direct precursor to testosterone. Both are androgens = building hormones= they build healthy bones, muscles, teeth and hair. Also, androgens are very important for libido and mental clarity. Before anyone should consider taking DHEA they need to have labs ordered by their physician. In my opinion, no less than - estrogen, DHEA-s, testosterone, progesterone, and sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). First, testosterone does not cause prostate cancer. Excess testosterone can convert into estrogen which can cause cancer of the prostate because the prostate embryologically comes from the same tissues as the uterus. Therefore, the prostate is especially sensitive (lots of receptors) to estrogen. Conversion of testosterone into estrogen occurs when other aspects of one's health (typically blood sugar) are not functioning as they should. Remember increase glucose= increase lipids (fats)and fat cells secrete estrogen! There needs to be a proper relationship of testosterone to estrogen in the male, much the same as there is a proper estrogen to progesterone ratio in women. So what does this all mean?

If a person has too much estrogen in relation to testosterone in the male -or-too much estrogen to progesterone in the female... it leads to a condition called "estrogen dominance". ESTROGEN DOMINANCE IS WHAT CAN LEAD TO CANCER OF THE PROSTATE, BREAST AND UTERUS BECAUSE THEY ARE ESTROGEN SENSITIVE CANCERS.


Now back to DHEA supplementation. I find it works absolute wonders for my patients who are in need of it (due to deficeincy) in ways of improving libido, mental clarity, and energy. Because it is the direct precursor to testosterone I only prescribe when testosterone levels are also on the low side. In fact I will regularly prescribe DHEA supplementation to purposely drive testosterone levels up when too low. Whenever recommended I instruct my male patients to have PSA levels checked annually. For women I warn that too much DHEA can lead to increased facial hair growth and irritation - both a sign that testosterone came up too much.

Also, please understand that DHEA is an adrenal hormone. Therefore if you are suffering, or have been suffering from stress (physical, viral, bacterial, emotional, etc.)over any length of time - low DHEA-s is likely an indicator that you are dealing with adrenal fatigue. Most commonly this will lead to blood sugar metabolism errors - hypo or hyperglycemia. Why is this important? Because blood sugar metabolism errors are a primary factor - not just with cancer but heart disease and stroke as well. Interestingly the single best solution for diabetes is weight loss. Is it the decreased weight or is it the decreased estrogen not being secreted by those nasty little adipose cells (fat cells).

Why I take the time to discuss these issues is that as you can see it is a complicated cascade of events that regulates hormone function. Everything affects everything. DHEA is not benign nor is it scary or problematic if given when needed. Reducing bone loss, auto-immune activity and exercise induced asthma, improving libido, mood and mental clarity are just a few of the positive effects of DHEA supplementation. The key is to only take it if you need it - not simply because you have the above symptoms. If you do in fact find that you are suffering from adrenal fatigue (likely you are if you need DHEA) then it would be prudent to make sure you are getting adequate protein (50grams for women, 60 grams for men with normal lifestyle [more if athletic]), B5, selenium, zinc, magnesium and vitamin c. Also, you will need to avoid, caffeine, refined sugar, refined flour and synthetic chemicals(which act as estrogens in the body). Ideally, you will get at the heart of the problem so that your body can begin to manufacture it's own DHEA in adequate amount.

Do not take DHEA if....

1. You have not had your levels checked.
2. You know that you have an estrogen driven cancer.
3. You know that you tend towards estrogen dominance.
4. Testosterone levels are normal or high.
5. Your SHBG is high - because it suggests over exposure to exogenous
estrogen. DHEA -converts to testosterone. Testosterone can bio-degrade into estrogen in certain conditions.

DO TAKE IF...

1. A qualified practitioner has taken labs and DHEAS and Testosterone are low or sub-clinically low - AND - estrogen and SHBG are not high.

I hope this helps. Let me know

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#27 albedo

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:36 PM

Instead of normal DHEA, I tried using 7-keto as my scope was to keep normalizing DHEA-S while not interfering too much with testosterone and estrogen. As in the past, I kept using the LEF prostate support formula and continued to eat soy products for other benefits (e.g. general prostate health and BPH, cancer protection, cholesterol)

FAILED: DHEA-S drastically lowered 196.2 to 73.1 (-63%). 7-keto seems totally different from DHEA.


You cannot test levels of 7-keto using the DHEA-S test.

Thanks for both your comments. Do I understand correctly that you mean I cannot expect changes in my DHEA-S values following a 7-keto supplementation?

#28 nowayout

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 12:04 AM

Instead of normal DHEA, I tried using 7-keto as my scope was to keep normalizing DHEA-S while not interfering too much with testosterone and estrogen. As in the past, I kept using the LEF prostate support formula and continued to eat soy products for other benefits (e.g. general prostate health and BPH, cancer protection, cholesterol)

FAILED: DHEA-S drastically lowered 196.2 to 73.1 (-63%). 7-keto seems totally different from DHEA.


You cannot test levels of 7-keto using the DHEA-S test.

Thanks for both your comments. Do I understand correctly that you mean I cannot expect changes in my DHEA-S values following a 7-keto supplementation?


Yes, I believe that is correct. It is a downstream metabolite of DHEA, and doesn't convert back to DHEA-S.

#29 albedo

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:50 PM

Following Nov 11 latest tests and 4 months supplementation: E2 normalized (good!) but DHEA-S is still disappointingly very low and outside ref range: likely you need to take it non-sublingual and at its physiological dose of 25 mg/d as I did it in the past (vs half of it in average as I experimented now). Total T and free T are within range. Used with DHEA also I3C/DIM + Chrysin. PSA 2.2.

I have re-started taking DHEA 25 mg/d in the morning taken with I3C/DIM (200 mg) and Chrysin (500 mg). I also continue using the LEF prostate formula started already since quite a few years now. Due to retest all in 4-5 months and will report here.

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#30 albedo

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 02:42 PM

Well, not sure what is happening here! I got re-tested after the panel in Nov 2011 and I am very concerned by my PSA values. I am scheduled to meet my urologist again next month. Can someone here with some expertize in these matters give a suggestion?
  • I have got for the first time over many year a spike in my PSA going from 2.2 to 3.4 in only 7.5 months! 3-years velocity, when getting the spike into account, found at 0.7 ng/ml/year!
Over one year (July 11 - July 12):
  • DHEA-S surprisingly decreased -16% to 61.5 (50-377) despite supplementation
  • Estradiol got well in check (was a concern) to 12.3 (11-44) actually reducing -68%
  • free T increased 21% to 96.3 (26-167) !
  • DHT increased 173% to 47 (14-107) !!
  • SHBG decreased -27% to 38 (14-71)
  • IGF-1 increased 23% to 239 (81-225) !!!
How to interpret all this?

As I have lower urinary tract symptoms (mainly a high post void residual) likely due to some BPH (being treated with tamsulosin) I might have got an aggravation of my BPH showing in my PSA (excluding other possible causes I took care of such as sex before the test and also excluding prostatitis).

Hormonally the aromatase inhibitors (I3C and Chrysin) posted before might have worked too well increasing freeT.

The IGF-1, free T and DHT increase might have triggered something bad and I wonder if I am going to be scheduled for biopsy.

What do you think? Should I consider also adding finasteride for the DHT. The natural way (the usual set of prostate support herbs) seems too weak.

I am changing diet reintroducing soy (read Bob Arnot's "Prostate Cancer Protection" book), further reducing animal fats, cutting more on some supplements containing folates (folic acid might increase risk of PC), increasing antioxidants (e.g. lycopene) and exercise more.

Edited by albedo, 25 July 2012 - 03:01 PM.





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