44 replies to this topic

[Logan]

Just came across this article that talks about a study done on different municipalities in Japan with different levels of lithium in the tap water. The areas with higher amounts of lithium in the water had lower mortality rates.

http://www.scienceda...10218111709.htm

[Logan]

Also another reason to take Vimmortal.

[caruga]

On the wikipedia article it said lower suicide rates. Given the complications the substance can cause I don't dare try it.

[Logan]

On the wikipedia article it said lower suicide rates. Given the complications the substance can cause I don't dare try it.

Did you read the article? It's a new study on overall mortality unrelated to suicide rates bro. The amounts that are potentially beneficial to longevity are amounts found naturally occurring in drinking water. Still not going to try it? You could just take the NOW brand trace mineral product, it has 1 mg of lithium I think. It sounds like you don't understand the difference between low beneficial doses of lithium and the potentially problematic high doses use in treating mental illness.

[caruga]

The article doesn't specify whether it accounts for suicide rates (or any other non-natural cause of death).

It's true that I thought you had to take the borderline toxic dose to receive any benefits. Has anyone felt any different from consuming trace supplemental amounts? How much is 1mg compared to what you might get from your tap water and veg?

[Logan]

The article doesn't specify whether it accounts for suicide rates (or any other non-natural cause of death).

It's true that I thought you had to take the borderline toxic dose to receive any benefits. Has anyone felt any different from consuming trace supplemental amounts? How much is 1mg compared to what you might get from your tap water and veg?

I believe there are municipalities that have about 1 mg lithium per 1 liter naturally occurring in their water. I don't think you're going to notice much as far as how you function or feel from this amount. It's possible you may feel more calm and less stressed. The point of the article was that higher doses of lithium in water may be contributing to longer lives. Just take a trace mineral supplement with lithium in it if your worried about taking a small dose of something like lithium orotate.

[kismet]

The article doesn't specify whether it accounts for suicide rates (or any other non-natural cause of death).

It's true that I thought you had to take the borderline toxic dose to receive any benefits. Has anyone felt any different from consuming trace supplemental amounts? How much is 1mg compared to what you might get from your tap water and veg?

The original article is freely available. Suicide does not explain the results and the lithium levels in water are surprisingly low: 0.7 to 59 mcg/L; or 8.5 mcM (=154ppb?)

http://www.springerl...3k/fulltext.pdf

Please see
Schrauzer GN. Lithium: occurrence, dietary intakes, nutritional essentiality. J Am Coll Nutr. 2002 Feb ;21 (1):14-21. PMID 11838882
http://www.jacn.org/...nt/full/21/1/14

For questions on intake, which usually ranges from 0.3-1mg/d.

Edited by kismet, 20 February 2011 - 09:37 PM.

[Cephalon]

Since reading Michael's post "the state of my pills" I also supplement with 1mg Lithium/day. I can not tell I notice any difference, but this shall not be an indicator for it's effectiveness.
With 5-10 mg I felt wasted and half a cap still left me a bit "drugged". 1 mg does not show any immediate effects like tiredness etc.

[Logan]

The article doesn't specify whether it accounts for suicide rates (or any other non-natural cause of death).

It's true that I thought you had to take the borderline toxic dose to receive any benefits. Has anyone felt any different from consuming trace supplemental amounts? How much is 1mg compared to what you might get from your tap water and veg?

The original article is freely available. Suicide does not explain the results and the lithium levels in water are surprisingly low: 0.7 to 59 mcg/L; or 8.5 mcM (=154ppb?)

http://www.springerl...3k/fulltext.pdf

Please see
Schrauzer GN. Lithium: occurrence, dietary intakes, nutritional essentiality. J Am Coll Nutr. 2002 Feb ;21 (1):14-21. PMID 11838882
http://www.jacn.org/...nt/full/21/1/14

For questions on intake, which usually ranges from 0.3-1mg/d.

Yeah that's the article I posted over on M and M. Should have posted it here, thanks Kismet.

[caruga]

Taken 5mg doctor's best lithium orotate about an hour and half ago, without food or cosupplementation. Not felt anything yet. What kind of response should I expect, at what dosage and at what time after taking, and is it better to take with anything else?

[Logan]

Taken 5mg doctor's best lithium orotate about an hour and half ago, without food or cosupplementation. Not felt anything yet. What kind of response should I expect, at what dosage and at what time after taking, and is it better to take with anything else?

If it's a tablet, you can crush it , or if you have a capsule just open it, and let the powder sit under your tongue if you want hasten the effects and maybe enhance them. Most people just feel more calm, less stressed, and maybe a slight mood lift. Some people feel nothing until they take more of it. Some people feel too numb and tired so they take it at night or decrease the dosage.

[Dorho]

Taken 5mg doctor's best lithium orotate about an hour and half ago, without food or cosupplementation. Not felt anything yet. What kind of response should I expect, at what dosage and at what time after taking, and is it better to take with anything else?

Lithium orotate is easily taken in by cells and its renal excretion is extremely slow so the effects build up and wain off slowly. For me the peak in perceived effect is reached probably about six hours after taking it. I take 2,5 mg around 5 PM with water on an empty stomach.

Lithium should calm your nerves. I feel less stressed and less worried on lithium.

[caruga]

Taken 5mg doctor's best lithium orotate about an hour and half ago, without food or cosupplementation. Not felt anything yet. What kind of response should I expect, at what dosage and at what time after taking, and is it better to take with anything else?

If it's a tablet, you can crush it , or if you have a capsule just open it, and let the powder sit under your tongue if you want hasten the effects and maybe enhance them. Most people just feel more calm, less stressed, and maybe a slight mood lift. Some people feel nothing until they take more of it. Some people feel too numb and tired so they take it at night or decrease the dosage.

Tablet disintegrates under the tongue by itself, though it doesn't seem to absorb, just makes a tipex-like smear under your tongue.

[niner]

Taken 5mg doctor's best lithium orotate about an hour and half ago, without food or cosupplementation. Not felt anything yet. What kind of response should I expect, at what dosage and at what time after taking, and is it better to take with anything else?

If it's a tablet, you can crush it , or if you have a capsule just open it, and let the powder sit under your tongue if you want hasten the effects and maybe enhance them. Most people just feel more calm, less stressed, and maybe a slight mood lift. Some people feel nothing until they take more of it. Some people feel too numb and tired so they take it at night or decrease the dosage.

Tablet disintegrates under the tongue by itself, though it doesn't seem to absorb, just makes a tipex-like smear under your tongue.

There's a lot of stuff in the tablet that isn't going to dissolve (binders, flow agents, colorants), so you can't really go by that. Don't expect to "feel" much of anything. Some people notice it, but others don't. I didn't. Just swallow it and forget about it.

[Logan]

Taken 5mg doctor's best lithium orotate about an hour and half ago, without food or cosupplementation. Not felt anything yet. What kind of response should I expect, at what dosage and at what time after taking, and is it better to take with anything else?

If it's a tablet, you can crush it , or if you have a capsule just open it, and let the powder sit under your tongue if you want hasten the effects and maybe enhance them. Most people just feel more calm, less stressed, and maybe a slight mood lift. Some people feel nothing until they take more of it. Some people feel too numb and tired so they take it at night or decrease the dosage.

Tablet disintegrates under the tongue by itself, though it doesn't seem to absorb, just makes a tipex-like smear under your tongue.

There's a lot of stuff in the tablet that isn't going to dissolve (binders, flow agents, colorants), so you can't really go by that. Don't expect to "feel" much of anything. Some people notice it, but others don't. I didn't. Just swallow it and forget about it.

I'm pretty sure there many people that "feel" something when they take lithium orotate. You say "don't expect to feel much of anything", then you say "some people notice it, but others don't", sounds a bit contradictory to me. If someone is looking for therapeutic benefit from taking something, they aren't just going to swallow it and forget about it. That's like saying, "When trying magnesium for relaxation, it may or may not affect you, so just swallow it and forget about it bro."

[caruga]

There are several new things in my regimen recently as well as intentional changes in my habits and I've not 100% isolated lithium's effects, but I think it makes me more relaxed and primed for sleep, and improves my impulse control. But there's at least one other substance that could be doing those things, so a bit more time is needed for me to confirm it.

[niner]

Taken 5mg doctor's best lithium orotate about an hour and half ago, without food or cosupplementation. Not felt anything yet. What kind of response should I expect, at what dosage and at what time after taking, and is it better to take with anything else?

If it's a tablet, you can crush it , or if you have a capsule just open it, and let the powder sit under your tongue if you want hasten the effects and maybe enhance them. Most people just feel more calm, less stressed, and maybe a slight mood lift. Some people feel nothing until they take more of it. Some people feel too numb and tired so they take it at night or decrease the dosage.

Tablet disintegrates under the tongue by itself, though it doesn't seem to absorb, just makes a tipex-like smear under your tongue.

There's a lot of stuff in the tablet that isn't going to dissolve (binders, flow agents, colorants), so you can't really go by that. Don't expect to "feel" much of anything. Some people notice it, but others don't. I didn't. Just swallow it and forget about it.

I'm pretty sure there many people that "feel" something when they take lithium orotate. You say "don't expect to feel much of anything", then you say "some people notice it, but others don't", sounds a bit contradictory to me. If someone is looking for therapeutic benefit from taking something, they aren't just going to swallow it and forget about it. That's like saying, "When trying magnesium for relaxation, it may or may not affect you, so just swallow it and forget about it bro."

Yeah, I should have said that an effect isn't guaranteed. Also, I don't think it's necessary to try to buccally dose it; for a compound like that that has pretty good bioavailability, I would just swallow it and not stress over the dosing strategy. If you're really looking for a therapeutic effect, you'll just have to ramp up the dose until something happens or you hit the top of the dosage range for unmonitored use, whatever that might be. I know a lot of people have reported huge effects from fairly low doses of lithium orotate. I'm probably just grumpy because it didn't do anything (or might have even been a negative; not sure about that) for me. I'm still taking it at reduced levels (~2mg/d) for neuroprotection and hypothetical mental health improvement, even if I don't feel it. At least I'm not planning on killing myself or anyone else, so I guess it's working...

[Logan]

Taken 5mg doctor's best lithium orotate about an hour and half ago, without food or cosupplementation. Not felt anything yet. What kind of response should I expect, at what dosage and at what time after taking, and is it better to take with anything else?

If it's a tablet, you can crush it , or if you have a capsule just open it, and let the powder sit under your tongue if you want hasten the effects and maybe enhance them. Most people just feel more calm, less stressed, and maybe a slight mood lift. Some people feel nothing until they take more of it. Some people feel too numb and tired so they take it at night or decrease the dosage.

Tablet disintegrates under the tongue by itself, though it doesn't seem to absorb, just makes a tipex-like smear under your tongue.

There's a lot of stuff in the tablet that isn't going to dissolve (binders, flow agents, colorants), so you can't really go by that. Don't expect to "feel" much of anything. Some people notice it, but others don't. I didn't. Just swallow it and forget about it.

I'm pretty sure there many people that "feel" something when they take lithium orotate. You say "don't expect to feel much of anything", then you say "some people notice it, but others don't", sounds a bit contradictory to me. If someone is looking for therapeutic benefit from taking something, they aren't just going to swallow it and forget about it. That's like saying, "When trying magnesium for relaxation, it may or may not affect you, so just swallow it and forget about it bro."

Yeah, I should have said that an effect isn't guaranteed. Also, I don't think it's necessary to try to buccally dose it; for a compound like that that has pretty good bioavailability, I would just swallow it and not stress over the dosing strategy. If you're really looking for a therapeutic effect, you'll just have to ramp up the dose until something happens or you hit the top of the dosage range for unmonitored use, whatever that might be. I know a lot of people have reported huge effects from fairly low doses of lithium orotate. I'm probably just grumpy because it didn't do anything (or might have even been a negative; not sure about that) for me. I'm still taking it at reduced levels (~2mg/d) for neuroprotection and hypothetical mental health improvement, even if I don't feel it. At least I'm not planning on killing myself or anyone else, so I guess it's working...

lol

[Ames]

I started on Lithium Orotate yesterday (120mg twice per day), and I can testify to the fact that there is a significant effect. But let me explain, as I need to add some context for you to fully understand my perspective:

I have a severe migraine/inflammatory disorder which mostly effects my prefrontal cortex, with symptoms that spread peripherally if the inflammation is allowed to persist either too long or too frequently. It starts from behind the eyes, but I can feel what seems to be a lesion between the eyes as the pain progresses - ever feel a recurring physical pain in your brain, like a sore spot? That's what I feel most days - also, I believe that I have had a mini stroke in the past from the condition, four years ago. I've had this condition daily for 11 years now, and so I know the causes, effects, and what relief and resistance to the effects feels like, intimately. I've had everything from breathing issues, to heart problems, to circulation issues over the years that directly resulted from periods periods of extended inflammation. Until I recently (in the past year) started to get serious about trying supplements, a specific method of calorie restriction is the only thing that would reset my system to almost normal when having a major health challenge.

Since I started experimenting with supplements, the only things that have worked to a significant degree are what seem to be whatever helps act as an NMDA/calcium antagonist. I suspect that there is also relief felt with serotonin/prolactin reduction, and dopamine enhancement. But I'm not sure.

The first supplement that I had success with was magnesium. There was significant relief at first, whcih then seemed to wane. Plus the gastrinestinal effects were significant, even at small doses of the best magnesium available. I then added zinc, which kicked up the effect. Then that waned. So I added P5P and B12. The effect of Zinc, Magnesium (I have to yet test either separately to make sure that its the combination that works) with P5P and B12 is very strong and synergistic, eliminating almost all inflammation over night. There is also a mild protective effect, seemingly mostly from the B12 (when tested separately), when taken during the day. (I also noticed a lasting, stronger neuroprotective effect he day following a day when I took this combination in the morning instead of at night. However, strangely, taking it in the morning in hopes of relieving a migraine led to one of the worst and most painful migraines that I've ever had - I felt like I had gone 6 rounds with Mike Tyson afterward. My usual remedies couldn't touch it. It was like the (assuming) B12 froze the migraine in place. I believe that the B12 has differing effects on the pineal, melatonin and serotonin depending on the time of day that it is taken, leading to differences in light sensitivity and possibly differences in an adaptive response by the body which would explain the difference in next day migraine resistance that I felt and the enhancement of the migraine in the morning.

Despite that hard experience, i am grateful to have something that I can take, other than Excedrin, which seems to help. Also, it seems to be reversing, to a small extend, some other peripheral trouble that i have bee dealing with. Excedrin doesn't touch that.

So, on to lithium orotate:

This seems to exert a steadier, longer lasting, and stronger neuroprotective effect than anything that I've tried thusfar. I don't know how to explain it other than I know what it feels like to be resistant to the condition that I have. Its not placebo. Also, waking up without lingering pain and inflammation fromt the day before is also an unmistakable occurrence. The lithium is doing its job, and I hope that it continues to do so.

In the next few days, i will slowly start adding B12, P5P, zinc, and Magnesium to see what the combined effects may be. Then I will change up the times of day when I take them and not any differences. If the effects of lithium don't wane, and I can count on it to not completely suppress dopamine (I have read a LOT of conflicting interpretations about the action of lithium - but the most credible says that lithium suppresses serotonin and enhances dopamine - which I view as healthy. Other sources say the opposite. I'm not sure that will be able to tell what it does in that respect, though. But for now, it seems to be offering significant neuroprotection: which is the point that I wanted to relate. I feel clearer all day, especially comparatively when subjected to my normal triggers. I hope that it continues to work as it currently does. Granted, its till very early in my experience.

Chronic lithium treatment robustly protects neurons in the central nervous system against excitotoxicity by inhibiting N-methyl-d-aspartate receptor-mediated calcium influx

Shigeyuki Nonaka,* Christopher J. Hough,† and De-Maw Chuang*‡
*Section on Molecular Neurobiology, Biological Psychiatry Branch, National Institute of Mental Health, National Institutes of Health, 10 Center Drive, MSC 1272, Bethesda, MD 20892-1272; and †Department of Psychiatry, Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, 4301 Jones Bridge Road, Bethesda, MD 20814-4799

Abstract
Lithium is the most commonly used drug for the treatment of manic depressive illness. The precise mechanisms underlying its clinical efficacy remain unknown. We found that long-term exposure to lithium chloride dramatically protects cultured rat cerebellar, cerebral cortical, and hippocampal neurons against glutamate-induced excitotoxicity, which involves apoptosis mediated by N-methyl-d-aspartate (NMDA) receptors. This neuroprotection is long-lasting, occurs at therapeutically relevant concentrations of lithium with an EC50 of approximately 1.3 mM, and requires treatment for 6–7 days for complete protection to occur. In contrast, a 24-h treatment with lithium is ineffective. The protection in cerebellar neurons is specific for glutamate-induced excitotoxicity and can be attributed to inhibition of NMDA receptor-mediated calcium influx measured by 45Ca2+ uptake studies and fura-2 fluorescence microphotometry. The long-term effects of lithium are not caused by down-regulation of NMDA receptor subunit proteins and are unlikely related to its known ability to block inositol monophosphatase activity. Our results suggest that modulation of glutamate receptor hyperactivity represents at least part of the molecular mechanisms by which lithium alters brain function and exerts its clinical efficacy in the treatment for manic depressive illness. These actions of lithium also suggest that abnormality of glutamatergic neurotransmission as a pathogenic mechanism underlying bipolar illness warrants future investigation.

Neuroprotective actions of lithium.

Hashimoto R, Fujimaki K, Jeong MR, Senatorov VV, Christ L, Leeds P, Chuang DM, Takeda M.
Abstract

Lithium has long been one of the primary drugs used to treat bipolar mood disorder. However, neither the etiology of this disease nor the therapeutic mechanism(s) of this drug is well understood. Several lines of clinical evidence suggest that lithium has neurotrophic actions. For example chronic lithium treatment increases the volume of gray matter and the content of N-acetyl-aspartate, a cell survival marker, in bipolar mood disorder patients (Moore et al., 2000). Moreover, treatment with this mood-stabilizer suppresses the decrease in the volume of the subgenual pre-frontal cortex found in bipolar patients (Drevets, 2001). To elucidate molecular mechanisms underlying the neuroprotective and neurotrophic actions of lithium, we employed a preparation of cultured cortical neurons prepared form embryonic rats. We found that treatment with therapeutic doses (0.2-1.2 mM) of lithium robustly protects cortical neurons from multiple insults, notably glutamate-induced excitotoxicity. The neuroprotection against glutamate excitotoxicity is time-dependent, requiring treatment for 5-6 days for maximal effect, and is associated with a reduction in NMDA receptor-mediated Ca2+ influx. The latter is correlated with a decrease in Tyrosine 1472 phosphorylation levels in the NR2B subunit of NMDA receptors and a loss of Src kinase activity which is involved in NR2B tyrosine phosphorylation. Neither the activity of total tyrosine protein kinase nor that of tyrosine protein phosphatase is affected by this drug, indicating the selectivity of the modulation. Lithium neuroprotection against excitotoxicity is inhibited by a BDNF-neutralizing antibody and K252a, a Trk antagonist. Lithium treatment time-dependently increases the intracellular level of BDNF in cortical neurons and activates its receptor, TrkB. The neuroprotection can be completely blocked by either heterozygous or homozygous knockout of the BDNF gene. These results suggest a central role of BDNF and TrkB in mediating the neuroprotective effects of this mood-stabilizer. Finally, long-term lithium treatment of cortical neurons stimulates the proliferation of their progenitor cells detected by co-labeling with BrdU and nestin. Lithium pretreatment also blocks the decrease in progenitor proliferation induced by glutamate, glucocorticoids and haloperidol, suggesting a role in CNS neuroplasticity. We used animal models to investigate further therapeutic potentials for lithium. In the MCAO/reperfusion model of stroke, we found that post-insult treatment with lithium robustly reduced infarct volume and neurological deficits. These beneficial effects were evident when therapeutic concentrations of lithium were injected at least up to 3 h after ischemic onset. The neuroprotection was associated with activation of heat-shock factor-1 and induction of heat-shock protein-70, a cytoprotective protein. In a rat excitotoxic model of Huntington's disease, the excitotoxin-induced loss of striatal medium-sized neurons was markedly reduced by lithium. This lithium protection was correlated with up-regulation of cytoprotective Bcl-2 and down-regulation of apoptotic proteins p53 and Bax, and neurons showing DNA damage and caspase-3 activation. Taken together, our results provide a new insight into the molecular mechanisms involved in lithium neuroprotection against glutamate excitotoxicity. Moreover, these novel molecular and cellular actions might contribute to the neurotrophic and neuroprotective actions of this mood-stabilizer in patients, and could be related to its clinical efficacy for treating mood disorder patients. Clearly, mood-stabilizers may have expanded use for treating excitotoxin-related neurodegenerative diseases.

Edited by golgi1, 18 March 2011 - 03:25 AM.

[Mind]

More potential therapeutic uses for lithium. Glad to see we included it in Vimmortal. A forward thinking group here at Longecity.

A two-year study of the effects of lithium treatment on Parkinson's disease in mice has given researchers at the Buck Institute for Research on Aging hope that the drug may halt brain damage in humans with the degenerative disorder.
The research found that lithium, the Food and Drug Administration-approved drug most commonly used to treat bipolar disorder, "profoundly prevents the aggregation of toxic proteins and cell loss associated with Parkinson's disease" in mice, Novato-based Buck Institute said in a statement.

[niner]

Thanks, Justin. Here's the abstract for the Buck Institute work. They are working towards setting up a phase IIa human trial to figure out what the dose needs to be. In their press release, they say:

“We fed our mice levels of lithium that were at the low end of the therapeutic range,” said Andersen. “The possibility that lithium could be effective in PD patients at subclinical levels is exciting, because it would avoid many side effects associated at the higher dose range.”

By 'therapeutic range', I'm guessing they mean relative to the dosing used for bipolar, but it sounds like they think they could go a lot lower. How low (A mg a day? That's pretty low...) is still a question.

J Neurosci Res. 2011 Jun 24. doi: 10.1002/jnr.22700. [Epub ahead of print]
Lithium protects against oxidative stress-mediated cell death in α-synuclein-overexpressing in vitro and in vivo models of Parkinson's disease.
Kim YH, Rane A, Lussier S, Andersen JK.

Buck Institute for Research on Aging, Novato, California.

Lithium has recently been suggested to have neuroprotective properties in relation to several neurodegenerative diseases. In this study, we examined the potential cytoprotective effect of lithium in preventing oxidative stress-induced protein accumulation and neuronal cell death in the presence of increased α-synuclein levels in vitro and in vivo. Specifically, lithium administration was found to protect against cell death in a hydrogen peroxide-treated, stable α-synuclein-enhanced green fluorescent protein (EGFP)-overexpressing dopaminergic N27 cell line. Lithium feeding (0.255% lithium chloride) of 9-month-old pan-neuronal α-synuclein transgenic mice over a 3-month period was also sufficient to prevent accumulation of oxidized/nitrated α-synuclein as a consequence of chronic paraquat/maneb administration in multiple brain regions, including the glomerular layer, mitral cells, and the granule cell layer of the olfactory bulb (OB), striatum, substantia nigra pars compacta (SNpc) and Purkinje cells of the cerebellum. Lithium not only prevented α-synuclein-mediated protein accumulation/aggregation in these brain regions but also protected neuronal cells including mitral cells and dopaminergic SNpc neurons against oxidative stress-induced neurodegeneration. These results suggest that lithium can prevent both α-synuclein accumulation and neurodegeneration in an animal model of PD, suggesting that this drug, already FDA-approved for use in bipolar disorder, may constitute a novel therapy for another human disease. © 2011 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

PMID: 21710541

[e Volution]

Lithium is now one of my top supplements. I am yet to really see a more robust supplement in terms of safety and positive effects. Vitamin D is about as solid as it gets, but I do still think about the disconnect between taking it in a pill compared to synthesising it in the skin from UV rays. Ditto for omega-3 out of a bottle of fish oil and not from fresh seafood. Don't get me wrong I still take both these supplements, but if history shows us anything it is the disconnect of taking a compound outside its natural form and into a pill that has often got us in trouble.

I take 2.5mg of Lithium a day 5-6 times per week before bed. The 2.5mg dosage stems simply from halving a 5mg pill of Lithium Orotate. Once I get some Vimmortal I will discontinue this supplement.

[stephen_b]

The first supplement that I had success with was magnesium. There was significant relief at first, whcih then seemed to wane. Plus the gastrinestinal effects were significant, even at small doses of the best magnesium available.

I typically get loose stools on just 200 mg of magnesium (all kinds). I've had much better luck lately taking the magnesium with a meal and with Now super-enzymes.

[Justchill]

I'm also trying lithium at this moment: 120mg LO in the morning.

I feel more calm, chilled, less anxious, mind may be clearer also.

No negatives at this moment, maybe a little fatigue or small headaches, but I'm not sure to attribute it to the LO.

[Krell]

Here is a new study that suggests minimal altered thyroid function from high levels of lithium in drinking water in Argentina. I can not find any data on longevity for this region of Argentina. Free full text version available.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21252007

Environ Health Perspect. 2011 Jun;119(6):827-30. Epub 2010 Jan 20.
Lithium in drinking water and thyroid function.
Broberg K, Concha G, Engström K, Lindvall M, Grandér M, Vahter M.
Source
Division of Occupational and Environmental Medicine, Lund University, Lund, Sweden. broberg@med.lu.se


Abstract

BACKGROUND:
High concentrations of lithium in drinking water were previously discovered in the Argentinean Andes Mountains. Lithium is used worldwide for treatment of bipolar disorder and treatment-resistant depression. One known side effect is altered thyroid function.


OBJECTIVES:
We assessed associations between exposure to lithium from drinking water and other environmental sources and thyroid function.


METHODS:
Women (n=202) were recruited in four Andean villages in northern Argentina. Lithium exposure was assessed based on concentrations in spot urine samples, measured by inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry. Thyroid function was evaluated by plasma free thyroxine (T4) and pituitary gland thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH), analyzed by routine immunometric methods.


RESULTS:
The median urinary lithium concentration was 3,910 μg/L (5th, 95th percentiles, 270 μg/L, 10,400 μg/L). Median plasma concentrations (5th, 95th percentiles) of T4 and TSH were 17 pmol/L (13 pmol/L, 21 pmol/L) and 1.9 mIU/L, (0.68 mIU/L, 4.9 mIU/L), respectively. Urine lithium was inversely associated with T4 [β for a 1,000-μg/L increase=-0.19; 95% confidence interval (CI), -0.31 to -0.068; p=0.002] and positively associated with TSH (β=0.096; 95% CI, 0.033 to 0.16; p=0.003). Both associations persisted after adjustment (for T4, β=-0.17; 95% CI, -0.32 to -0.015; p=0.032; for TSH: β=0.089; 95% CI, 0.024 to 0.15; p=0.007). Urine selenium was positively associated with T4 (adjusted T4 for a 1 μg/L increase: β=0.041; 95% CI, 0.012 to 0.071; p=0.006).


CONCLUSIONS:
Exposure to lithium via drinking water and other environmental sources may affect thyroid function, consistent with known side effects of medical treatment with lithium. This stresses the need to screen for lithium in all drinking water sources.

[e Volution]

RESULTS:
The median urinary lithium concentration was 3,910 μg/L (5th, 95th percentiles, 270 μg/L, 10,400 μg/L). Median plasma concentrations (5th, 95th percentiles) of T4 and TSH were 17 pmol/L (13 pmol/L, 21 pmol/L) and 1.9 mIU/L, (0.68 mIU/L, 4.9 mIU/L), respectively. Urine lithium was inversely associated with T4 [β for a 1,000-μg/L increase=-0.19; 95% confidence interval (CI), -0.31 to -0.068; p=0.002] and positively associated with TSH (β=0.096; 95% CI, 0.033 to 0.16; p=0.003). Both associations persisted after adjustment (for T4, β=-0.17; 95% CI, -0.32 to -0.015; p=0.032; for TSH: β=0.089; 95% CI, 0.024 to 0.15; p=0.007). Urine selenium was positively associated with T4 (adjusted T4 for a 1 μg/L increase: β=0.041; 95% CI, 0.012 to 0.071; p=0.006).

Do we have any idea what this translates to daily amount ingested?

[Krell]

RESULTS:
The median urinary lithium concentration was 3,910 μg/L (5th, 95th percentiles, 270 μg/L, 10,400 μg/L). Median plasma concentrations (5th, 95th percentiles) of T4 and TSH were 17 pmol/L (13 pmol/L, 21 pmol/L) and 1.9 mIU/L, (0.68 mIU/L, 4.9 mIU/L), respectively. Urine lithium was inversely associated with T4 [β for a 1,000-μg/L increase=-0.19; 95% confidence interval (CI), -0.31 to -0.068; p=0.002] and positively associated with TSH (β=0.096; 95% CI, 0.033 to 0.16; p=0.003). Both associations persisted after adjustment (for T4, β=-0.17; 95% CI, -0.32 to -0.015; p=0.032; for TSH: β=0.089; 95% CI, 0.024 to 0.15; p=0.007). Urine selenium was positively associated with T4 (adjusted T4 for a 1 μg/L increase: β=0.041; 95% CI, 0.012 to 0.071; p=0.006).

Do we have any idea what this translates to daily amount ingested?

According to the full text article
http://ehp03.niehs.n...289/ehp.1002678

The highest levels of lithium in drinking water in the Puna region were detected in the village of San Antonio de Los Cobres (1,005 μg/L; Concha et al. 2010), with little variation over the period measured (years 2004–2008). If we assume a stable exposure, the urinary lithium concentrations in women from San Antonio de los Cobres suggests a total daily lithium intake of 2–30 mg, including 2–3 mg from drinking water (Concha et al. 2010). For a woman weighing 50 kg, this level of exposure is within an order of magnitude of lithium doses used for maintenance treatment of bipolar disorder, 1–5 mg lithium/kg body weight/day (Grandjean and Aubry 2009a). Major side effects of long-term lithium therapy include thyroid abnormalities (presenting mainly as hypothyroidism and goiter), weight gain, edema, gastrointestinal pain, diarrhea, tremor, polyuria, and renal tubular damage (Aral and Vecchio-Sadus 2008; Grandjean and Aubry 2009b). Because of these well-recognized effects of lithium treatment, we wanted to evaluate potential effects of chronic exposure to lithium through drinking water and other environmental sources. We recruited women in a number of Puna villages in the Argentinean Andes with a wide range of lithium concentrations in drinking water supplies (8–1,005 μg/L; Concha et al. 2010) and evaluated the potential impact of urinary lithium on the concentrations of free thyroxine (T₄) and the pituitary gland hormone thyrotropin [thyroid-
stimulating hormone (TSH)] in plasma. We also evaluated associations between urinary lithium concentration and body mass index (BMI).

So of the 2-30 mg/day ingested, only 2-3 mg/day was from drinking water. I guess local foods made up the major source of lithium. That suggests there may be a problem with the Japanese study that only measured lithium in drinking water, rather than urine.

[Forever21]

I'm going to sprinkle this on my emo friend's drink today.

Edited by Forever21, 27 July 2011 - 05:21 PM.

[John2009]

Here is some interesting information I found on lithium.

From one of the articles below, it seems Seawater contains around 0.17 ppm lithium & rivers usually contain around 3 ppb. Mineral water contains 0.05 to 1 mg lithium per liter. Large amounts of lithium were found in holy water from Karlsbad, Marienbad and Vichy.

If a person drank eight 8 oz glasses of water per day, this would be just about 2 liters . If a person were drinking mineral water with a high lithium content, then this would give them about 2 Mg of lithium from their water, plus whatever they get from their diet (probably 45 to around 152 micrograms).

One study done by Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, University of California, San Diego, concludes “a provisional RDA for a 70 kg adult of 1,000 microg/day is suggested“.

I didn’t know that tobacco has a high lithium content of 12 µg/gm. Coriander leaves, tamarind, Tomato and garlic are foods that are high in lithium compared to other foods. It was also said that rock salt & sea salt has more lithium than regular table salt.

I think 1 Mg elemental Lithium per day is what is in the V-Mortal vitamin. One would think this amount is safe, based on what people can get from diet, if the body utilizes the supplement the same way it does lithium from the diet and water. Then again, one of the posted studies indicates possible thyroid problems just from high lithium content in water / diet.

Lithium orotate is often used as a supplement. The question is, would a dose of lithium orotate that provides 1 mg of elemental lithium be utilized by the body in the same way as lithium in the diet ? Or, is the orotate more bioavailable than lithium in the diet ?

How do we determine a safe supplemental dose to support general health, longevity, and mood ? I think the study that looked at the reduction of crime rates and suicides in Texas found a maximum water level of 170 micrograms/L of Lithium. Perhaps a supplement dose of around 340 micro-grams elemental lithium would be more safe and still provide benefits ?

Article title:
“Manic depressive psychosis in India and the possible role of lithium as a natural prophylactic. II--Lithium content of diet and some biological fluids in Indian subjects“.

This article gives lithium content of various foods, a mean lithium level for people on vegetarian and non-vegetarian diets and water lithium levels. However, I cannot get the “table 1” link to work.

http://jpgmonline.co...4;aulast=Jathar

Article Name: Lithium & Water
http://www.lenntech....m-and-water.htm

Article title: ‘Lithium Content of Water In United States Cities’
http://jama.ama-assn.../6/1012.1.short

Article Title: “The lithium contents of some consumable items”
http://onlinelibrary...1519.x/abstract

Article name: Lithium in drinking water and the incidences of crimes, suicides, and arrests related to drug addictions.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1699579

Article name: Lithium in scalp hair of adults, students, and violent criminals. Effects of supplementation and evidence for interactions of lithium with vitamin B12 and with other trace elements.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1381936

Article name: The Metal Marvel That Has Mended Brains for 50 Years
http://discovermagaz...0-years-lithium

Liquid medicine: Controversial call to add lithium to drinking water for mental health
http://www.thedaily....ws-lithium-1-5/

Article title: Study of Lithium Absorption by Users of Spas Treated with Lithium lon

http://het.sagepub.c.../13/5/315.short

Edited by John2009, 29 October 2011 - 05:53 AM.

[Cephalon]

I started looking for bottled water with high lithium contents.
There are several mineral/ medical springs here in Europe.
I came up with one water that is supposed to be bitter tasting due to the high mineral content (?).
It has 11mg Lithium per liter drinking water. You should only need a shot of that a day
http://www.bad-merge...rinkkur&id=2139

Unfortunately I did not find any data for evian & co yet.

Edit: i found the water I drink on this page. It has 0,67mg Li/ Liter. That should save me from keeping on splitting 5mg caps. They also have some data to most international waters: www.finewaters.com

Edited by Cephalon, 01 November 2011 - 12:52 AM.