11 replies to this topic

[J. Galt]

I am prescribed 60mg Adderall XR + 30mg Adderall IR daily for ADHD. I'd like to lower my dose and tried memantine to help reverse my tolerance, but noticed little to no change after a month.

I just got some 5mg Deprenyl HCL from AllDayChemist, and I'm wondering if a low dose (1mg-2.5mg) could be safely used as an adjunct to the Adderall to increase/prolong the effects.

It would great if I could find an effective solution to lower my Adderall dose. Unfortunately I'm in school, taking 22 units, andworking 30+ hours a week to pay the bills. As such, simply cutting back my dose or taking a drug holiday is not an option.

I'm still trying to get a handle on Deprenyl's pharmacology, but if I understand correctly at lower doses it acts only as a selective MAO-A inhibitor. Obviously MAO-B inhibition would be disastrous with such high doses of Adderall, but what would be the effect of the low-dose selective MAO-A inhibition from 1mg-2.5mg (or higher? advice?) with, say, 50-75% of my normal Adderall dose.

In conclusion, my questions are:

1) Is this combination dangerous?
2) Would it be effective in boosting the Adderall to provide the same effectiveness at lower doses?
3) Would the neuroprotective benefits of Deprenyl still be realized if taken in combination with Adderall, or would the MAO-A inhibition just exacerbate Adderall's already excitotoxic properties?

Any insight or advice would be great. I did search through about a dozen past Deprenyl threads and couldn't find a satisfying answer to this question, but please pardon me if this is already been addressed and I missed it.

Note: I typed this on my phone while riding my bike across campus, so please pardon the presumably numerous typos.

[iago]

Deprenyl at a low dose is a MAO-B inhibitor. Only at high doses (10 mg) is it MAO A & B

[J. Galt]

Thanks Iago. I transposed them by mistake. Incidentally, I am also dislexic. :-)

Any insight on the questions I posed?

[TophetLOL]

It's pretty dangerous, selegiline takes two weeks of chronic use to reach its full potential. Even at 1mg daily its going to make the adderall anywhere from 2-4 times stronger at the end of two weeks. If you insist on trying it 1mg daily with a quarter the adderall you take would be fairly safe, though id just avoid it all together.

[Ambidestrian]

Combining amphetamine, especially at that dose, which, IIRC, already has MAOI activity of its own, with an MAOI is totally contraindicated. Yes, it would be very dangerous.

Would it increase excitotoxicity? Would you realize the protection from oxidative stress afforded by the deprynyl? The answer to both is probably.

Would it increase dopaminergic transmission? Probably, for a short period of time until the receptors re-regulate. Based on the research I've read regarding stimulant-induced dopaminergic toxicity, I'd advise you that if you're trying to learn information, I think that dose of Adderall might be counterproductive and gambling by stacking deprynyl could be even more counterproductive or have serious side effects including lethality.

[Moddy2012]

Combining amphetamine, especially at that dose, which, IIRC, already has MAOI activity of its own, with an MAOI is totally contraindicated. Yes, it would be very dangerous.

Would it increase excitotoxicity? Would you realize the protection from oxidative stress afforded by the deprynyl? The answer to both is probably.

Would it increase dopaminergic transmission? Probably, for a short period of time until the receptors re-regulate. Based on the research I've read regarding stimulant-induced dopaminergic toxicity, I'd advise you that if you're trying to learn information, I think that dose of Adderall might be counterproductive and gambling by stacking deprynyl could be even more counterproductive or have serious side effects including lethality.

Its not a wise idea to mix Adderall with Deprenyl. Probably the best thing to take with Adderall is a diet modification of alkaline foods as well as Magnesium Chelate.

I use Adderall IR on some occasions but mostly use Modafinil. Combining the two has given me stellar results.

Edited by Moddy2012, 14 April 2011 - 08:23 PM.

[manic_racetam]

If you're looking for something to decrease your tolerance to adderall then deprenyl is most likely a poor choice. Deprenyl, besides creating a potentially dangerous cardiac situation, will increase your dopamine levels, which will likely decrease your dopamine receptor sensitivity.

I took deprenyl for about 9 days hoping it would give similar effects to methylphenidate but discontinued it because of the increase in blood pressure and heart rate that it caused.

This thread has a more extensive first hand report from someone with experience in the actual combination http://www.blueligh......

I'm still interested in using the deprenyl for it's anti aging properties but it turns out to be arguably unnecessary before the age of 35. Personally I wouldn't mix deprenyl and amphetamine

Side note: One interesting thing I noticed taking deprenyl was a noticeably enhanced sense of smell.

Edited by manic_racetam, 14 April 2011 - 10:27 PM.

[J. Galt]

Thanks for the link. I've been looking into this a bit deeper on Pubmed and found several I interesting studies which this excerpt from the bluelight thread sums up quite nicely:

I have heard a report of a hypertensive crisis from 2 mg of d-amphetamine (“Dexedrine”) on this combination, which would be an otherwise inactive dose, so please, again, take care...and take these schedules seriously.

At the current time there is one clinical trial of the effects of long term methamphetamine and selegiline co-administration in humans that is ongoing. Previously there were at least three studies of methamphetamine co-administration with selegiline: one in regards to safety in humans, one in regard to cardiovascular effects of methamphetamine is human users of selegiline and the other in regards to neurotoxicity prevention in rats. The study on safety found that the two could safely both be administered at the same time in humans in the short term and that methamphetamine reduced some of the negative cardiovascular consequences of methamphetamine. The study on neurotoxicity prevention found that selegiline was indeed able to reduce dopaminergic neurotoxicity. The relation of these findings to long term human co-administration is not known, but the fact that the current clinical trial for humans has not yet been terminated is a good sign.

Selegiline has been shown to safely abolish MDMA neurotoxicity in the rat. The significance of these findings for human MDMA administration are not known. There are numerous anecdotal reports of the administration of MDMA with selegiline in humans with no reported deaths.

A study of selegiline and cocaine co-administration in humans showed that the interaction between the two drugs generally appeared to be safe.

Why is the adderall combination dangerous relative to other stimulants? I don't understand how selegeline can be safely coadministered with meth and coke, but is somehow dangerous with d-amp? This seems totally counterintuitive. Can someone explain this?

To clarify, I'm asking only in respect to sub-5mg doses and selective MAO-B inhibition. Crossing into MAO-A inhibition is a completely separate and obviously dangerous scenario.

[Delta Gamma]

Hey,

I realize you're a smart guy and you understand the risks involved with amphetamine + a MAOB inhibitor, so I'll cut out the THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS rant.

MAOB is responsible for the production of ammonia and hydrogen peroxide resulting from DA catabolism, so on the off chance you did get the dosage right there would be a marked decrease in free radical generation. However, given the likely steady state plasma concentration of amphetamine in your plasma you would have to start VERY low seeing as it would take about 4-7 days for the amphetamine to exit your system. Also the irreversible nature of deprenyl's inhibition would make it very risky to try and titrate the dose.

A personal suggestion for short term use would be geiparvarin or curcumin as they are reversible inhibitors of MAOB, though curcumin may be non-selective at relevant doses.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Geiparvarin

[VoidPointer]

that is a very high dose of AMP per day, your brain is going to need a break at some point.

[Ambidestrian]

Thanks for the link. I've been looking into this a bit deeper on Pubmed and found several I interesting studies which this excerpt from the bluelight thread sums up quite nicely:

I have heard a report of a hypertensive crisis from 2 mg of d-amphetamine (“Dexedrine”) on this combination, which would be an otherwise inactive dose, so please, again, take care...and take these schedules seriously.

At the current time there is one clinical trial of the effects of long term methamphetamine and selegiline co-administration in humans that is ongoing. Previously there were at least three studies of methamphetamine co-administration with selegiline: one in regards to safety in humans, one in regard to cardiovascular effects of methamphetamine is human users of selegiline and the other in regards to neurotoxicity prevention in rats. The study on safety found that the two could safely both be administered at the same time in humans in the short term and that methamphetamine reduced some of the negative cardiovascular consequences of methamphetamine. The study on neurotoxicity prevention found that selegiline was indeed able to reduce dopaminergic neurotoxicity. The relation of these findings to long term human co-administration is not known, but the fact that the current clinical trial for humans has not yet been terminated is a good sign.

Selegiline has been shown to safely abolish MDMA neurotoxicity in the rat. The significance of these findings for human MDMA administration are not known. There are numerous anecdotal reports of the administration of MDMA with selegiline in humans with no reported deaths.

A study of selegiline and cocaine co-administration in humans showed that the interaction between the two drugs generally appeared to be safe.

Why is the adderall combination dangerous relative to other stimulants? I don't understand how selegeline can be safely coadministered with meth and coke, but is somehow dangerous with d-amp? This seems totally counterintuitive. Can someone explain this?

To clarify, I'm asking only in respect to sub-5mg doses and selective MAO-B inhibition. Crossing into MAO-A inhibition is a completely separate and obviously dangerous scenario.

Adderall is a mixture of salts of dextrorotary and levorotary amphetamine. Dextrorotary and levorotary refer to the isomer of the molecule - they are enantiomers of each other. This is analogous to your hands - each has 4 fingers and a thumb but they are not superimposable. The two enantiomers have nearly identical physical properties but different biological effects.

The main difference between amphetamine and methamphetamine is the higher lipid solubility of methamphetamine, which makes methamphetamine's effect primarily serotonergic. It can cross the cell membrane and displace serotonin from its vesicle, unlike amphetamine which has to pass through the reuptake transporter and is taken up by dopamine and norepinephrine transporters but not serotonin transporters. Therefore, they have very different effects.

Cocaine is a serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor and in a different class of drugs.

My inference is that the increased hazards associated with deprynyl+amphetamine are due to the (MUCH) greater norepinephrine-releasing activity of amphetamine, especially l-amphetamine.

[manic_racetam]

So did you decide against it?