First off, hello fellow nootropians. This is my first post (aside from one in "introduce yourself"), and considering my nootropic obsession I know I'll be frequenting this particular forum often. Despite a few weeks of research in my spare time, I still have a lot of loose ends and confusion regarding my topic. Please excuse the winded inquiries. I tried to provide a shorter version of my post for the sake of answers.
Here's the short version:
After reading a post pertaining to the health of ADDers and limiting medications unless they are absolutely necessary, I've decided to alter my Vyvanse schedule. In the past I would take 70mg Vyvanse ~3-5x/week and have a morning shake of Jarrow's Whey Protein (hoping added amino acids help w/ dopamine) to attempt to boost waning effectiveness, but that has had little positive results. I have been cautiously experimenting with piracetam as of late, and I'm curious if anyone has knowledge regarding an alternating vyvanse-piracetam replacement regimen.
I plan to dose my prescribed 70mg 5/7 days each week, but taking a strict 6 day break every 3 weeks. For my 6 day break, I'm curious if taking 1.6- 3.2g/day piracetam (w/ choline) 24 hours after my last vyvanse is going to bring any risks? Similarly, will stopping my piracetam intake after 6 days and taking vyvanse after a 24 hour wait bring a high possibility of neural damage? So I guess I'm just curious as to how long piracetam/vyvanse will stay at relative levels in the body. Obviously there are always inherent risks when messing with brain chemistry, but if the odds of damage are low this schedule would be a terrific solution. I miss vyvanse far less when taking 3.6g piracetam, but the effects of piracetam alone are less motivational, mildly improved focus/cognition, and noticeably shorter (only 2-3 hours). However, compared to baseline there is no doubt the piracetam has been successful at filling some of the gap left by my vyvanse vacatons.
The simple answers here are obvious, "just don't take this or that," "wait 5 days just to be sure" and so on; but I want facts and data. The similar effectiveness of both of these drugs is great for replacement therapy during my consistent breaks from a helpful amphetamine. I am just looking for an exterior source of reliable data/input from knowledgeable people and those with first hand experience.
What risks has anyone here researched or experienced with a similar regimen?
Is apoptosis and/or excitotoxicity a realistic possibility even with a 24 hour gap between amphetamine and piracetam doses?
Any tips from others for a vyvanse prescribed ADDer?
I've read experiences from people who have taken piracetam and adderall together for year(s). Conversely, I've read intimidating reports and evidence about the realistic possibility of damaging one's mind. I find vyvanse to help my produtivity exponentially, and I don't mind forgoing the piracetam during my breaks
Extended Version (for the interested reader):
As for additional thoughts on the topic, I am concerned with dosing each of the listed substances in close proximity; as well as reducing tolerance/ineffectiveness of Vyvanse. I have been browsing some posts here with regards to excitotoxicity and resulting apoptosis of cells due to mixing piracetam and amphetamines(only adderall was mentioned). My understanding is this is mostly theory, and without going into great detail/checking notes the cause is due to some overload in a calcium channel mechanism. I've read there is a possibility of overexciting neurons to the point of death(by explosion) by taking Piracetam, which increases brain sensitivity/efficiency, in combination with amphetmaines, which increases neural activity. I've also read about piracetam's benefits and the association with cardiovascular health, improved brain function, and neuroprotective effects; begging the question of a contraindiction regarding the combination.
I haven't been keeping perfect track, so my times and dates might be slightly off. I stopped my Vyvanse about a week ago due to a building tolerance and resulting dose increases (3x 70mg in one day was out of hand). I received my Piracetam/choline on the same day I started my Vyvanse break, and being impatient I took a 5.6g attack dose of Piracetam with 3x 600mg choline barbitrate and 3x 70mg vyvanse all throughout the day (I have no idea what I was thinking). The vyvanse seemed to be nullified and there was no real noticeable potentiation or difference from even a 70mg vyvanse dose. I chalked the problem up to the piracetam dose being my very first ever, and maybe overdoing the magnesium citrate that day resulting in some kind of inability for my body to cleave all the L-lysine's from the lisdexamfetamine (i.e. I only got a limited exposure to dextroamphetamine). The following day I crashed similar to a 2x 70mg 24 hour sleepless day I've had before. I received some minor cognitive/memory disturbances which subsided in 36 hours, but more alarmingly I had a dull pain in my upper left abdomen(I thought pancreatitis due to my high protein/fat diet as of late). The following 2 days were supplement free, and on the 3rd I was only taking my multi and fish oil. Now thinking I was cleaned out, over the last 2 days I've been taking between 1.6-3g/2x a day piracetam (w/ 2x 600mg choline barb). I have to say, placebo or not, I have had subtle yet very positive results dosing ~3g Piracetam. Ultimately, I would like to dose Piracetam/choline for 1-2 week periods while stopping Vyvanse at the scheduled breaks. I am worried about brain damage so I have come here for input
--The Following is Just Additional--
Vyvanse is lisdexamfetamine, [technically] a prodrug composed of a dextroamphetamine molecule bound to an essential amino acid L-lysine molecule. Proteolytic enzymes in the stomach cleave the lysine-bound portion of the compound, and the remaining dextroamphetamine molecule is absorbed into the body (roughly a 70% absorption rate iirc). Normal lisdexamfetamine is inactive until it meets with proteases to "release" the amphetamine portion; the purpose of this mechanism is to reduce abuse potential and provide a steady, long lasting dose of amphetamine throughout the day. Adderall is approximately 75% dextroamphetamine, the remaining 1/4 being levoamphetamine the enantiomer of dextroamphetamine; Vyvanse can be compared to adderall in this way, but the extended release and lack of levoamphetamine in Vyvanse make a 1:1 comparison of results impossible (i.e. we don't know if l-amphetamine is causing an interaction with piracetam)
Personal Background Info:
I generally have a well balanced 4-6 meals daily, mostly consisting of fruits/vegetables and only 1-2 with meat(mostly chicken)
In the morning and throughout the day I have the following supplements:
-[stopped as of 7 days ago] 1/2 scoop Jarrow's Whey Protein 2x daily
-600-1200mg choline barbitrate/day, more as needed (2.5g max)
-Standard Respectable Men's Multi-Vitamin
-2-3 Omega 3 1200mg/day
-200-400mg Magnesium Citrate/day
I have been taking Vyvanse over the past 7 months sparingly (30 pills/~45-60 days) and I am up to 70mg/day (recently doubling this on certain days) after working my way up from 30mg which I started in January. I generally take 3-5 pills/week with a 2-3 day break every 4-6 days. Starting about 2 months ago I have had to increase my dosage to 2x normal to reach regular effectiveness, this has raised alarms for my body. I have just recently(~5 days ago) started titrating piracetam in search of an effective dose. After some mild success following a Vyvanse abstinence of days, I have come here for help with the hope of eliminating any bodily harm in my supplement regimen.
Edited by Squirlmaster, 01 July 2011 - 02:59 AM.