24 replies to this topic

[APBT]

What factors could affect serum levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG)?

Are there foods, supplements etc.. that can lower SHBG, thereby ostensibly increasing the availability of free testosterone?

Are there foods, supplements etc... that can raise SHBG?

Has anyone had experience lowering SHBG and increasing free testosterone?

[Robert C]

I'm a 52 year old male and over the last couple of years have had trouble with elevated SHBG. I take 25 mg of DHEA and 180 mcg of Femara daily (the Femara is a estrogen lowering drug used primarily for breast cancer treatment. I take it at a rate of 1/2 pill per week). My doctor prescribes this for me and a compounding pharmacy makes it up.

From what I understand, SHBG is tricky. For women, birth control pills can raise it. For men and women too much soy can also raise it. This is per my doctor. I have cut soy from my diet and am waiting to see if it goes down. The doc told me not to stress about small amounts in the diet here and there but to avoid large amounts like tofu, soy protein powder, etc. He also told me that SHBG changes very slowly over time. For example, when a lady gets off birth control it make take a few months to show up in the lab reports.

[speda1]

Are there foods, supplements etc... that can raise SHBG?

Alcohol, phytoestrogens.

[APBT]

I'm a 52 year old male and over the last couple of years have had trouble with elevated SHBG. I take 25 mg of DHEA and 180 mcg of Femara daily (the Femara is a estrogen lowering drug used primarily for breast cancer treatment. I take it at a rate of 1/2 pill per week). My doctor prescribes this for me and a compounding pharmacy makes it up.

From what I understand, SHBG is tricky. For women, birth control pills can raise it. For men and women too much soy can also raise it. This is per my doctor. I have cut soy from my diet and am waiting to see if it goes down. The doc told me not to stress about small amounts in the diet here and there but to avoid large amounts like tofu, soy protein powder, etc. He also told me that SHBG changes very slowly over time. For example, when a lady gets off birth control it make take a few months to show up in the lab reports.

Thanks for your reply Robert.

Do you have lab work both before and after your introduction of DHEA and Femara? What were the changes in total T, free T and SHBG?

[Robert C]

I have been on the DHEA/Femara combo for about 8 years. Before the combo my test was a lowish 330 with estrodiol a normal 33. The SHBG was also a normal 30. After titrating the med combo the test ran in the 600 to 800 range with the estodiol around 20 and the SHBG remaining around 30 for a number of years. In the last couple years the SHBG has been creeping up and is now a tad out of the reference range on the high side (around 60). Only in the last two years has the doc checked the free test but it's too low (about average for my age but low for a total test of about 700). I'm experementing now trying to lower the SHBG but it might just be an aging thing.

The Femara is a very potent med and I think a lot of older guys could benefit from a very small dose in the order of one-half pill per week (with or without the DHEA). One really needs to get the estrodiol tested tho because it is easy to drive to estrodiol way too low. My doc tells me that men need some estrodiol and women need some test to be healthy. You might check out the fish oil/SHBG thread also.

[spacetime]

Estrogens tend to increase SHBG production while androgens tend to decrease it's production. But what you need to consider is the fact that there are other binding proteins that effect your 'free testosterone' levels. So you might decrease SHBG but your body may respond by increasing production of albumin. Granted, albumin doesn't bind irreversibly to test so it's possible there may be some benefit to decreasing SHBG even if albumin or other binding proteins increase.

[APBT]

Speaking with an acquaintance last night regarding SHBG, T and freeT, he mentioned stinging nettle (urtica dioica) as a possible supplemental adjunct. Doing a quick search yields results all over the map; from useless to relatively effective at mopping up SHBG, thereby increasing free T.

Has anyone used stinging nettle extract? Thoughts? Studies?

[Robert C]

I read about a European in vitro study on nettle being possibly helpful but I have never been able to get credible data on nettle.

[sxytiger]

I've used the cheap Swanson nettle just as an experiment. Problem with nettle is half of it may lower SHBG, the other half of it works like Saw Palmetto, which is just chemical castration.

I felt like crap on two much nettle. Some extracts (like Divanili) may be useful, but don't believe the hype you will read in some bodybuilding circles. If nettle was great at lowering SHBG and therefore raising free T everyone would take it.

[albedo]

I'm a 52 year old male and over the last couple of years have had trouble with elevated SHBG. I take 25 mg of DHEA and 180 mcg of Femara daily (the Femara is a estrogen lowering drug used primarily for breast cancer treatment. I take it at a rate of 1/2 pill per week). My doctor prescribes this for me and a compounding pharmacy makes it up.

From what I understand, SHBG is tricky. For women, birth control pills can raise it. For men and women too much soy can also raise it. This is per my doctor. I have cut soy from my diet and am waiting to see if it goes down. The doc told me not to stress about small amounts in the diet here and there but to avoid large amounts like tofu, soy protein powder, etc. He also told me that SHBG changes very slowly over time. For example, when a lady gets off birth control it make take a few months to show up in the lab reports.

Very interesting post Robert C. I posted here about some of the experiments I am doing here with my results. Also my SHBG increased with equivalent lowering of free T. The dramatic increase of estradiol made me suspecting soy (tofu) and soy protein (very moderate and altrernating with whey though) which I introduced in my diet (tofu quite regularly). I am now back to normal (vs 7-keto) DHEA (12.5-25 mg/d) and introduced chrysin (500 mg) and I3C/DIM (200 mg) as aromatase inhibitors with the LEF prostate formulation (used for years with good results) which include the typical prostate condition herbs (saw palmetto, stinging neetle, pygeum, etc...). I am cutting back on soy with some regrets for its benefits on cancer and dislipedia. I hope to get back to my original positive results of normalizing DHEA deficiency and increase free T with both E2 and SHBG in check as I had before the changes.

You might feel to comment on my results here.

[Robert C]

Hi Albedo. Your labs looks pretty good to me if you are over 40. I don't have a prostate issue so I'm not familiar with the products you use. But they seem to be working for you so I would stick with them. My doc says that this is highly variable from one person to another.

I've been on the DHEA/Femara combo for a long time so I decided to go stop for two months and get a new base line for comparison. I have never really known if the DHEA has much to do with raising test or if it is just the reduction in E2 that does the trick. I have also wondered if the DHEA may be contributing to my increase in SHBG although I don't have any proof that it does. So, I plan soon to restart my hormong ballancing with just a small daily dose of Femara (maybe 90 mcg per day which is 1/4 pill per week) and see what happens. Then later I'll restart the DHEA and see how it goes. This will take some time but hopefully it will be worth it.

Per your question, my doc says he usually does not recommend hormone "cycling" but rather uses a variety of techniques to keep the hormones in a stable and healthy level.

[albedo]

Hi Robert C !

Thank your for your comments. My lab results were much better one year ago (in blue, with changes wrt to one year before) than today (in red). I report both measurements here. Details and interpretation are here. I am 56 and do not like mainly the change in my estradiol (E2) even if within the ref. range (the strange values you may note are due to my conversion from SI to conventional units).

• DHEA-S 196.2 from 38.5 (+410%) (50-377)
It lowered to 73.1 (-63%)

• Estradiol E2 12.0 from 10.6 (+13%) (11-44)
It substantially increased to 39 (+225% !!)

• Testosterone 565 from 444 (+27%) (282-1101)
It lowered to 559 (-1%)

• Free T (calc.) 98.6 from 72.9 (+35%) (26-167)
It lowered 79.8 (-19%)

• DHT 13.9 from 49.3 (-72%) (14-107)
It increased to 17.1 (+23%)

• SHBG 43 from 42 nmol/l (+2%) (14-71)
It increased to 52 (+21%)

Probably one year ago I was near that magic equilibrium I am trying to find back and which your doctor rightly mentions.

I also agree on the variability from one person to the other one; this is how it should be and actually the problem with pharmaceutical and supplementation interventions which one day science and personalized medicine will solve; however, here i am testing relative to me from one year to the other one and did something wrong which I am trying to correct.

Someone thinks DHEA is estrogenic for men but that is probably due to the fact that the aromatase converting testosterone to estradiol increases with age, hence some inhibitors would be needed: I did not check for Femara but know about Arimidex and might one day ask for for a low dose prescription if what I am trying with chrysin and I3C/DIM does not work. I am also cautious with DHEA as not recommend at my age with moderate BPH symptoms.

Edited by albedo, 28 July 2011 - 03:31 PM.

[Robert C]

Hi Albedo. I have personal experience with both Arimidex and Femara. I started hormone ballancing about 7-8 years ago with 25 mg of time released micronized pharma grade dhea per day and 1/2 Arimidex every-other-day. My total test doubled in 6 weeks but the E2 shot up too far. (Femara was not yet out.) I then progressed to an entire Arimidex per day and E2 was still too high with the 25 mg dhea (it defitately will turn into E2 if you don't stop it). Then Femara came out and I started on one half tab every-other-day and the E2 fell way too low. My doc wants to keep E2 in lower part of reference range. After some titration I have learned that for me, depending upon how much dhea I take, I need around 180 mcg of Femara per day (one half tab per week). Again, a compounding pharmacy is grinding it up and metering it out into daily pills.

The Femara is WAY WAY stronger than Arimidex. Arimidex proved mostly worthless for me. If you don't want to go the compounding route you can split the Femaras and take one-half tab per week, or better, 1/4 tab 2X per week (say Mon, Thurs). You can get a pill cutter and split them, then turn the half-tabs around and split them again. They are strong little tabs and split well (don't crumble). I did this for a while before I discoverd the compounding route. Based upon my experience, I would get your doc to prescribe Femara and start with about 1/2 tab per week with DHEA or 1/4 tab per week without DHEA. I think this would be a good starting point for most guys over 40. Then, you could make changes based upon your lab work. The manufacturer of Femara says it takes 2-6 weeks of consistent use to reach steady state blood levels. It has a very long half-life. I personally like to wait about 8 weeks after a change in Femara to get lab work.

Edited by Robert C, 28 July 2011 - 05:00 PM.

[ultranaut]

This is all very interesting, I'd not even heard of SHBG. What are your thoughts on the effects of DHEA in men and women in the 25-35 age range? (i.e. when the decline begins)

[Robert C]

IMO the possible benefits of dhea supplementation don't start to outweigh the risks untill after 40 or so. I think most people under 40 have plenty. Based upon my lab work, the levels of testosterone don't seem terribly sensitive to the levels of dhea. There must be some level of dhea that would be so low that dhea would become the limiting factor in test production but I'm not sure what it is. I have a hunch that for most guys, the dhea level is not the rate limiting factor in test production.

Edited by Robert C, 28 July 2011 - 10:28 PM.

[albedo]

.... Based upon my experience, I would get your doc to prescribe Femara and start with about 1/2 tab per week with DHEA or 1/4 tab per week without DHEA. I think this would be a good starting point for most guys over 40. Then, you could make changes based upon your lab work. The manufacturer of Femara says it takes 2-6 weeks of consistent use to reach steady state blood levels. It has a very long half-life. I personally like to wait about 8 weeks after a change in Femara to get lab work.

Much appreciated Robert C. I likely will make my last try the "natural" path with dietary supplements which looks probably too weak to achieve what I wish and then ask for prescriptions following my end of year lab results. I still remain with lot of doubts about the changes over one year. How is it possible than suddenly I start to convert to E2 making in one year 225% increase and if i attribute this to dietary changes (not likely the 7-keto DHEA) they are not that weak after all !

[Robert C]

In my body, DHEA seems to want to convert to E2 unless I take it with a strong E2 blocker (Femara). I don't have any experience using the more natural anti E routes so I can't offer much help there. I think we are all so different in the hormone balancing area that you just have to go with your lab work and see what works for you.

My doc says that most over-the-counter DHEA products are junk. He says he started out experimenting on himself some years ago with store bought stuff and could not get his DHEA up much, even using doses of 100 mg per day. He then switched to DHEA from a compounding pharmacy (which I use) and the levels skyrocketed. I use a slow realease pharmacutical grade micronized DHEA. My lab test 7 years ago before starting with this showed a DHEA level of 103. When I take 25 mg with breakfest the low point the next morning before taking more is about 200. I think the high point is around 500 to 600 in the afternoon. So I might caution you to make sure you are using good DHEA. I don't think the 7-keto will change your T and E2 (at least it's not supposed to).

From what I understand a healthy young guy makes around 30 mg of DHEA per day. So if you are using a good product I don't see the need to take much more than this. Keep us informed how your labs go!

[albedo]

.... My doc says that most over-the-counter DHEA products are junk.... .... I use a slow realease pharmacutical grade micronized DHEA.....

Continuing using normal DHEA vs 7-keto. Physiological dose of 25 mg/d (experimenting with sublingual, actually 12.5-25 mg/d in average). Just wish to say that what I found the LEF DHEA (25mg, micronized) formula absolutely effective to me as per my lab results. I will be getting new lab works in November and hope my I3C/chrysin will lower my E2. Will let you know.

Edited by albedo, 22 August 2011 - 09:02 PM.

[Robert C]

It's good to know that the LEF DHEA works well. I've heard about sublingual DHEA but I've never tried it. From what I can tell from dosages of DHEA I take and the lab work, it seems like oral DHEA is well absorbed and goes through your liver intact. I'm not sure if there would be any benefits of sublingual DHEA. I always take my DHEA in the morning after breakfest.

Edited by Robert C, 22 August 2011 - 10:17 PM.

[albedo]

.... My doc says that most over-the-counter DHEA products are junk.... .... I use a slow realease pharmacutical grade micronized DHEA.....

Continuing using normal DHEA vs 7-keto. Physiological dose of 25 mg/d (experimenting with sublingual, actually 12.5-25 mg/d in average). Just wish to say that what I found the LEF DHEA (25mg, micronized) formula absolutely effective to me as per my lab results. I will be getting new lab works in November and hope my I3C/chrysin will lower my E2. Will let you know.

E2 normalized (good!) but DHEA-S is disappointingly very low: likely you need to take it non-sublingual and at its physiological dose of 25 mg/d as I did it in the past (vs half of it in average). Total T and free T are within range.

[nowayout]

The Femara is a very potent med and I think a lot of older guys could benefit from a very small dose in the order of one-half pill per week (with or without the DHEA). One really needs to get the estrodiol tested tho because it is easy to drive to estrodiol way too low. My doc tells me that men need some estrodiol and women need some test to be healthy. You might check out the fish oil/SHBG thread also.

Femara is a very strong aromatase inhibitor and will easily annihilate someone's estrogen and cause problems unless taken in extremely small doses. For most men a weaker aromatase inhibitor like arimidex (also divided) will be much safer.

[nowayout]

High levels of androgens lower SHBG.

Being on testosterone replacement will reduce SHBG over time if testosterone is raised high enough and estrogens are kept in check. Some TRT doctors are using Danazol, a synthetic androgen, to lower SHBG. Androgens like DHT or other synthetic ones like proviron will bind SHBG strongly and lower the effectively available SHBG, but they have potential side effects like hair loss. But if you are on something to lower DHT like finasteride or Saw Palmetto, you may consider stopping it to see if it improves the SHBG problem. The anti-estogen exemestane also has been found to lower SHBG, most likely again because it metabolizes into a very potent synthetic androgen.

[Vestpocket]

What supplements will INCREASE SHBG?

 

My SHBG has been clinically low my whole life, and it is causing massive problems including hypogonadism since my teens.   Without adequate SHBG, excessive free testosterone converts to excess estrogen and the excess estrogen remains in the free form due to lack of SHBG binding and feeds back on the hypothalamus. 

 

I desperately need something that will at least /double/ my SHBG expression.

[Ark]

Have you tried adding DAA to your regime?

I have been on the DHEA/Femara combo for about 8 years. Before the combo my test was a lowish 330 with estrodiol a normal 33. The SHBG was also a normal 30. After titrating the med combo the test ran in the 600 to 800 range with the estodiol around 20 and the SHBG remaining around 30 for a number of years. In the last couple years the SHBG has been creeping up and is now a tad out of the reference range on the high side (around 60). Only in the last two years has the doc checked the free test but it's too low (about average for my age but low for a total test of about 700). I'm experementing now trying to lower the SHBG but it might just be an aging thing.

The Femara is a very potent med and I think a lot of older guys could benefit from a very small dose in the order of one-half pill per week (with or without the DHEA). One really needs to get the estrodiol tested tho because it is easy to drive to estrodiol way too low. My doc tells me that men need some estrodiol and women need some test to be healthy. You might check out the fish oil/SHBG thread also.

[Vestpocket]

DAA won't increase SHBG.  It will lower it.